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March release - General feedback

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#341 - 2016-03-11 04:05:04 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Hmmm...Taking a bit too much notice of our focus groups are we not CCP......Remember. you pay them to tell you exactly what YOU want to hear......Gong's indeed. I wonder who thought up that rather fantastic idea.


P.S. I saw what you did there.....reactivate my 'Try New Camera' would you....It was deactivated for a very good reason...It's Not fit for purpose.

Yes please stop turning on stuff that I have already turned off.

You are aware that its (the old camera) is going to go away completely in the near future right? You should use it and try to give constructive criticism instead of turning it off, for your own good.

no I was not aware. thanks for the head's up.

However this is not a reason for me to try but a reason for me to cancel my subs. The way that my vision works I can't handle that much movement without getting headaches and motion sick. If they seriously want to force that much camera movement than they will loose anyone like me that physically is incapable of playing something like that. At least not without extreme discomfort.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2016-03-11 04:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Hmmm...Taking a bit too much notice of our focus groups are we not CCP......Remember. you pay them to tell you exactly what YOU want to hear......Gong's indeed. I wonder who thought up that rather fantastic idea.


P.S. I saw what you did there.....reactivate my 'Try New Camera' would you....It was deactivated for a very good reason...It's Not fit for purpose.

Yes please stop turning on stuff that I have already turned off.

You are aware that its (the old camera) is going to go away completely in the near future right? You should use it and try to give constructive criticism instead of turning it off, for your own good.

no I was not aware. thanks for the head's up.

However this is not a reason for me to try but a reason for me to cancel my subs. The way that my vision works I can't handle that much movement without getting headaches and motion sick. If they seriously want to force that much camera movement than they will loose anyone like me that physically is incapable of playing something like that. At least not without extreme discomfort.


Under the new camera options you can enable and disable lots of the options, and modify the rest. Experiment with Camera Inertia to change how fast it moves and how fast it stops, disable Camera Shake, Camera Bobbing, Dynamic Center Offset, and Dynamic Field of View.

You can basically get it back to the old camera
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2016-03-11 04:13:51 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:
So CCP Lebowski, the problem here is not keeping the people from getting hunted who are on watch lists, but those of us who use watch lists to keep ourselves safe.

I'm from Providence. Those who have been there know that Honorable Third Party and many other reds like to hotdrop us. Fine. The problem is that they log off in local and relog later and hot drop. Thus if we don't know if they've logged off in local, the can log back in and hotdrop the people in local there. Often, they log off in combat sites or mining sites so that they can instantly hot drop people in there. Once upon a time, these "log off traps" were considered illegal or at the very least people would get reimbursed for their losses as such. Since about 2012 or 2013, that stopped.

To me the problem isn't keeping the person safe who can't be arsed to make sure they're safe because their in a war dec or to figure out a good fitting so they dont' get ganked, but instead you have penalized the people who kept themselves from being hunted by hotdroppers who realistically have no counter with the current mechanics other than to have a counter hot drop fleet ready 23.5/7 or having people watch every system in the area 23.5/7 and never take their eyes off local. It's not feasible. Without the watchlist mechanic as it was, the gameplay of myself and my friends is severely hampered to the point where it's neither fun nor worth my time and effort to keep my numerous alt accounts running.

Since 2011, I've seen more and more ways to "have quick and easy fights". While this does in deed counter that to some extent in HISEC, it does the exact opposite for NULLSEC.

I plead with you, CCP, to add in some sort of compensation mechanic to know who is logged off in the systems in which you have Sov, be it some sort of structure or module. Otherwise, this game seems like it may become unplayable for me. I truly hope it does not as after nearly 7 years of sweat equity, I don't want to lose what I've built in the game both in fake space ships and in friendships. Please either reconsider this change or give us some mechanic to compensate for log off traps.

Sincerely,
Makari Aeron

This game used to be a complex game of intel management. Not so much who could get the most intel but who could sift through all the available intel in an efficient manner. We would literally get bombarded with more info than you possibly use and you'd have to figure out what to pay attention to and what to ignore.

It seems that once again you are on a path to dumb down and simplify the game in what I am calling the WoWification of Eve.

CCP while you are on the path of getting rid of intel sources that you can't opt out of why not get rid of the killboards? How about removing employment history from the game? Why not just allow names changes while you are at it? Watchlisting reds in an intel gathering mechanic no different from a myriad of other's that no one can opt out of.

Removing intel from the game is not adding content it is removing it. I seriously wonder if you guys even play this game. No joke. Do you play it?

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2016-03-11 04:19:56 UTC
Anhenka wrote:

You can basically get it back to the old camera

Yes and I have done that. My original complaint was that CCP keeps turning it back on. However then Daemun said soon I won't be able to turn it off.
Daemun Khanid wrote:

You are aware that its (the old camera) is going to go away completely in the near future right? You should use it and try to give constructive criticism instead of turning it off, for your own good.


Removing options and forcing specific gameplay is why I left other games and the sandbox is why I came here. It seems more and more CCP is moving in the direction of scripted linear gameplay and away from the sandbox. I'm not saying this is WoW yet. I'm just saying that they've turned the ship in that direction.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Yacob Uddani
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#345 - 2016-03-11 04:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yacob Uddani
So besides ship's fits being buggered up now, module tiercide that doesn't seem to make sense, station environment toggles being removed, stupid kill animations and gongs, etc.......I have also lost a ton of ISK in modules that lost 60-80% of their values because they were changed.....
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#346 - 2016-03-11 05:12:19 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

Just dropping by to shed some light on the watch list->buddy list change that was done by Team Five 0 in this release, and the reasoning behind it.

For a long time the watch list has had two main use cases: tracking the online status of friends, and tracking enemies of one kind or another. While we were happy with the first use case, for some time we've had design concerns about the latter. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, the information provided is 100% accurate all the time without any risk to the pilot’s receiving it. This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this). Secondly, a pilot concerned about people watching them has no in-game choice to counter this overpowered source of information. They can either log in and face the fact that notifications have instantly appeared for everyone wanting to hurt them, or simply not play. As you can imagine, that’s not a choice that we really want to encourage!

We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause. We’re happy to discuss any use cases we may have neglected and any suggestions for future iteration that don’t contradict the reasoning outlined above.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

All of that applies equally well to local chat. Are you going to remove that too?

If not, please explain why, considering that you have just posted such a perfectly reasoned justification for doing so.


Are you insane? Stop giving them ideas! P

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Karma Bad
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#347 - 2016-03-11 05:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Karma Bad
How about Creating this concept like Overviews. A options Page, Where for Certain affects -

(npc kills, Player Kills, Salvaging, Podding, Looting everything in a Jet Can, etc)

All have options to choose what you want the sound to be (out of a list of any already in game sounds) or none at all. All of these can be traded just like the current overview. This Would allow the players to pay the game in anyway they choose to be "Their" way. Also the Giant X, Create a option to turn on / off.


So to be Clear, its not the Idea most people dislike, Its the overwhelming and overpowering choice of a sound that's the problem.

New Content IS OK wanted and expected but creating and mandating cosmetic changes should have a second, a third, a fourth look, and then have the option to override. Things like coding a new camera because the old one is running on outdated code is bound to happen, but baby steps should be the name of the game.





Also things like the buddy list vs watch list: Instead of completely changing the way things work, Adding things such as a disable option could have worked just as well for the majority of those that being watched affected.

Could have easily been 5 toggle, allow alliance, allow corp, allow blues, allow naturals, allow reds, Allow No one. And have it update the next time the client was restarted.

That way those that wish to be super hidden can, leaving those that don't mind others knowing (eve's teachers, business merchants, ect) to not have to add everyone and have there list spammed and grow uncontrollably just to let others know they are online, to continue the way of life they have chosen.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#348 - 2016-03-11 06:46:53 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Hmmm...Taking a bit too much notice of our focus groups are we not CCP......Remember. you pay them to tell you exactly what YOU want to hear......Gong's indeed. I wonder who thought up that rather fantastic idea.


P.S. I saw what you did there.....reactivate my 'Try New Camera' would you....It was deactivated for a very good reason...It's Not fit for purpose.

Yes please stop turning on stuff that I have already turned off.

You are aware that its (the old camera) is going to go away completely in the near future right? You should use it and try to give constructive criticism instead of turning it off, for your own good.

no I was not aware. thanks for the head's up.

However this is not a reason for me to try but a reason for me to cancel my subs. The way that my vision works I can't handle that much movement without getting headaches and motion sick. If they seriously want to force that much camera movement than they will loose anyone like me that physically is incapable of playing something like that. At least not without extreme discomfort.


Under the new camera options you can enable and disable lots of the options, and modify the rest. Experiment with Camera Inertia to change how fast it moves and how fast it stops, disable Camera Shake, Camera Bobbing, Dynamic Center Offset, and Dynamic Field of View.

You can basically get it back to the old camera


What settings get it closed to the old camera? If you don't mind saving me some experimentation?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2016-03-11 07:07:58 UTC
Settings resembling the old cam:

uncheck all options (eg: no dynamic field of view, no chasing/leading moving targets, no bobbing, no nothing).
set the inertia slider a little on the Stiff side.
hit Shift-C to get auto-tracking

et voila!



I kind of like dynamic FOV and the chasing cam, but it's unpractical for decloaking and DScanning. For PvE though it looks mighty fine.

The above settings should do what you want it to, however: no sideways movement, just point-and-click tracking towards ships/stargates/... and no funny stuff during zoom-in.

Buddy of mine was wondering if they inverted the mousewheel controls and I honestly can't tell. Either they didn't or I got used to it ;-)
Skipper Riddles
Ivory Vanguard
#350 - 2016-03-11 07:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Skipper Riddles
This is an interesting thing to think about.

While docked in a station, a former member opened up a chat with me right after log in. said he saw me pop up on his watch list.

I cannot even tell when my own corp members log in. What is that about? Works for some and not others...

Interesting twist I think.

between you, me and the fence post; I'm glad he found me to chat a bit.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#351 - 2016-03-11 07:13:29 UTC
Happy with module tieracide and all, but that new animation for destroyed targets is way over the top. A quick flicker before disappearing was perfect.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#352 - 2016-03-11 07:33:43 UTC
Quote:
What settings get it closed to the old camera? If you don't mind saving me some experimentation?

The main difference of the new camera - is that the developers have made a stupid decision to move the point of rotation of the camera somewhere in space. With this camera can do cool pirouettes and aerobatic maneuvers. Maybe that's cool for video and getting headaches, but imo not for combat situations.
Turning off Dynamic Center Offset converts the new camera to old, but without the ability to set custom position for tracking targets.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”
Garwill
Willco Inc.
#353 - 2016-03-11 08:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Garwill
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

Just dropping by to shed some light on the watch list->buddy list change that was done by Team Five 0 in this release, and the reasoning behind it.

For a long time the watch list has had two main use cases: tracking the online status of friends, and tracking enemies of one kind or another. While we were happy with the first use case, for some time we've had design concerns about the latter. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, the information provided is 100% accurate all the time without any risk to the pilot’s receiving it. This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this). Secondly, a pilot concerned about people watching them has no in-game choice to counter this overpowered source of information. They can either log in and face the fact that notifications have instantly appeared for everyone wanting to hurt them, or simply not play. As you can imagine, that’s not a choice that we really want to encourage!

We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause. We’re happy to discuss any use cases we may have neglected and any suggestions for future iteration that don’t contradict the reasoning outlined above.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!


So for a long time you have had concerns with the watchlist. If that is true why was there no discussion on this with customers? No blog? No discussion or feedback posts? It is a major change and appears to be the only one in the patch notes with no link to ANY blog or information. Why?

Hell it was listed in the patch notes under 'Miscellaneous changes' FFS.

As you admit it had many uses. You call it overpowered. All it did was tell you if someone - friend or foe - was online. It didn't tell you where they were, what they were flying - were they AFK - zip.

You took a major item people used for many reasons we have already stated and yanked it without discussion and nothing to take it's place.

Yes there are complex and time-consuming ways to get the same information, but get this - it's a game - games are SUPPOSED to be FUN - not annoying and boring WORK.

By the way 'short term inconvenience' is extremely patronizing.

Between this and the recent ''pay for skillpoints' atrocity I am starting to wonder why I played all these years.
Panzerledi
Weyland-Yutani Panzer Industry and Mining Group
Cyno.Up
#354 - 2016-03-11 09:27:51 UTC
After the last patch there was a memory leak - launched and minimaized ( with no activity) client ( exefile process) per hour increased memory consumption from 700MB to 1400MB.
After 3.5 hours above 1600MB and + 2000MB Virtual memory
http://c2n.me/3vp9diB
http://c2n.me/3vp99TX

Immediately after starting the client
http://c2n.me/3vpx6Lx
http://c2n.me/3vpxayw

Reproduction Steps
1.Launch client (any launcher - old or new)
2.Enter to the game
3.Minimize window
4.Launch process explorer and vmmap and select exefile process
5.Track used memory

EBR-71916: MEMORY LEAK
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#355 - 2016-03-11 09:33:48 UTC
Helicia b wrote:
IF removing gallente control tower 100% bonus for coupling arrays was intended or bug ?


Can we get an answer for this? CCPlease ...

Coupling Silo - Full or half full?
Internet Spaceship Captain
Internet Spaceship Corporation
#356 - 2016-03-11 10:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Internet Spaceship Captain
I really don't like this new camera that keeps getting turned on

It's just, imprecise?. I'm not sure how to describe it.

There's a certain amount of lag or play in the controls when you're zooming in and out and it's really damned annoying to use.
It's like there's a drunk guy between the mouse wheel and the game client messing up the commands.



My other gripe is the "Cluster Shutdown Alert". Can you make it a bit less dramatic? It sounds like CCP Tuxford is mashing buttons again. Maybe something like "Daily Downtime Commencing" would be better.
Shasz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#357 - 2016-03-11 10:59:58 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
ever since the patch my hangars keep disappearing and I have to re-open them. When ever I change ships or undock and then redock my item and ship hangars are both gone. It is rather annoying.


I have the same issue. Any time I change ships while docked, my item hangar and ship hangar windows close.

It also happens after undock and redocking.

Please fix!
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#358 - 2016-03-11 12:17:34 UTC
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
The complete removal of the watchlisting of enemies with no reasonable alternative is unacceptable. It's not a matter of free intel, its a matter of wasted time.

For the aggressor/hunter - it wastes their time checking on targets who are not even online.

For the defender/hider - it wastes their time either hiding from someone who's offline, or wastes their time trying to find where that person is so they can go around another way, etc.

Most players don't have unlimited play time.

If you guys insist on killing the watchlisting of super pilots in null (which I personally disagree with but can see an argument for) then make watchlisting only work if the person watchlisted is either A: your buddy (has you watchlisted too) or B: is in Highsec *and* is a valid war target.

This gives highsec pvp back its watchlist while solving the problem of seeing all your enemy supercaps logging on.

For those who care - yeah I'm generally on the defend/hide/avoid side of the highsec stuff, but you know what, I can sympathise with the hunters, why waste their time and burn them out looking for a target that is offline.

Maybe make watchlisting non-instant, put a delay on it, make it only work if the watchlisted person changes systems after the log on (something to the nature of their ship gets logged with the gate network traffic control system). Something.

Maybe make it part of the locator agents (and reduce the cooldown delay on locators?) - they give you a location (with the same setup as now) and whether or not the pilot in question is "active" (online) or "inactive" (offline).


Completely removing it was horrible.
I couldnt agree more with you.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Jade Gondar
Human Sacrifice for Dummies
#359 - 2016-03-11 13:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Gondar
As a wormhole inhabitant, I have my problems with the module changes, but I understand the necessity. Refitting a good percentage of my ships is a pain in the ass, but I'll manage. Fine by me.

The removal of the watchlist hits us, that we are used to hunt neighboring system inhabitants, a good bit harder. I used to watchlist neighbors based on their POS's, killboard entries and stray ships in POS fileds, and hit them after login, that's now impossible. I'd have to camp all towers. In other words, it made planned PvP and playing as a carnivore more difficult. That's bad. Especially as I don't see a use for the new buddy list. None of my friends was on watch list aynway. I see when they are online because they are part of my corporation and/or share a group chat with me. You replaced a working feature with one I don't need and probably never will.

I avoided the gong by not playing yesterday. Good choice, I guess.

Project discovery looks interesting. Had my problems with loading new images. But that's okay, babysteps are expected. It will be fine.

I was not able to avoid the new flashing icon and X after a kill/salvage/whatever. The old animation was unintrusive, clean and just perfect for my taste. I like my Eve clean and fast, it did just that. The new animation opposes that design philosophy. I get that making things easier to see is a good thing. I don't have to observe what's dead, but what's left to deal with! Right now that became more difficult. It's a step back and against the otherwise clean UI design. If you feel it has to be changed, change it. But make it please disappear in an unintrusive matter. Like the old animation did.

The camera is buggy from time to time. Missed the old tracking camera first (you put that in later) and changes between modes are still a bit clunky here and there, but I'll manage.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#360 - 2016-03-11 13:24:21 UTC
Panzerledi wrote:
After the last patch there was a memory leak - launched and minimaized ( with no activity) client ( exefile process) per hour increased memory consumption from 700MB to 1400MB.
After 3.5 hours above 1600MB and + 2000MB Virtual memory
http://c2n.me/3vp9diB
http://c2n.me/3vp99TX

Immediately after starting the client
http://c2n.me/3vpx6Lx
http://c2n.me/3vpxayw

Reproduction Steps
1.Launch client (any launcher - old or new)
2.Enter to the game
3.Minimize window
4.Launch process explorer and vmmap and select exefile process
5.Track used memory

EBR-71916: MEMORY LEAK


You need to post that on the issues thread. It's right next to feedback thread.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!