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March release - New Camera Feedback

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CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-03-09 13:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Greetings pilots,

We are deploying lots of tweaks and bug fixes for the new camera today, and would very much like to hear what you all think of it. We also took the liberty of turning the new camera on for all players post-patch to get maximum exposure, while leaving the old camera as an option in the Esc menu.

Here is a link to the old camera feedback thread, and here is a link to today‘s patch notes.

Here are some of the tweaks and improvements we have made in the last month thanks to community feedback:
• Re-implemented auto-tracking (shift+C by default)
• Added offset toggle
• Added Camera Inertia slider
• Various tweaks and improvements made to bobbing, zooming, and tracking movement
• FOV improvements to minimize nausea
• Combat hotkey improvements
• Improved tracking of ships that are warping or about to warp
• D-Scan in new camera improvements

Current Known issues:
• Zoom level sometimes inside ship after undock
• Zoom level of the Tactical Camera or First Person Camera does not persist when switching camera modes in some cases
• Tactical and First Person atmosphere noises not bound to any advanced audio controls
• Black/Grey screen and camera controls unresponsive issue (please file bug reports immediately afterwards if you experience this!)
• Orbit camera breaks when client is under huge load (massive fleet fights)
• Camera bobbing when viewed from top or bottom angle causes rotational movement
• Ejecting or losing ship and ejecting in pod causes zoom to reset
• FPC - First person overlay persists with fullscreen system map
• 'Offset Interface With Camera' setting does not always work
• Jump animation is a bit jarring at the end

Things we hope to improve or add in time for the next release:
• Right click to pan/rotate camera followed by left click to zoom
• Various improvements to the tactical camera
• General performance issues

Fly safe,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-03-09 14:10:18 UTC
Can you please clarify the changes you made to the old camera with this patch? I am certain, I get some kind of hybrid between the old and the new camera when I turn the new camera off.

* Zooming in and out with the scrollwheel works different.
* Insta zoom-in to your ship with alt-click does slide in (seems to depend on ship size???).
* Ships in station seem to bounce up an down.
CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2016-03-09 14:21:53 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Can you please clarify the changes you made to the old camera with this patch? I am certain, I get some kind of hybrid between the old and the new camera when I turn the new camera off.

We did not make any changes to the old camera, but we will look into this.

Grookshank wrote:
* Ships in station seem to bounce up an down.

This is a known issue, this movement should be toggleable with the camera bobbing toggle.

o7
CCP Turtlepower
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-03-09 14:30:22 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
Can you please clarify the changes you made to the old camera with this patch? I am certain, I get some kind of hybrid between the old and the new camera when I turn the new camera off.

We did not make any changes to the old camera, but we will look into this.

Grookshank wrote:
* Ships in station seem to bounce up an down.

This is a known issue, this movement should be toggleable with the camera bobbing toggle.

o7
CCP Turtlepower

I have the new camera and all inertial options off. At least small ships bounce still.
Kaylin Drake
Profound Destiny
#5 - 2016-03-09 14:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylin Drake
There used to be a camera zoom that was done by holding down control and left and right mouse buttons held while dragging.. I'm not sure the proper name for that zoom.. but that seems to no longer work, will functionality be added back eventually?

Edit: it doesn't work in station either. Used to be able to zoom really close in and really far out with that. Doesn't even work now when new camera is turned off in the settings...
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2016-03-09 14:46:17 UTC
21:9 fov has been removed, it had a proper 21:9 fov before this patch now its just using 16:9 fov but zoomed in, please bring the proper 21:9 fov back
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#7 - 2016-03-09 14:53:06 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:

Grookshank wrote:
* Ships in station seem to bounce up an down.

This is a known issue, this movement should be toggleable with the camera bobbing toggle.

o7
CCP Turtlepower


I'm logging in now to check but if this hasn't been changed it's the same thing I've commented on repeatedly in the test server feedback thread...YUP it's the same and it's nauseating,

When in station, if you disable camera bobbing the background stops moving up and down but the ship itself continues to go uuuppppp anndddd dooooowwwnnnn and uuuupppppp annndddd dooowwwwnnnn. Nothing in the options makes it stop and with the load station environment option removed I guess I'll have no other choice now than to cover my entire screen with windows when docked up to prevent getting sea sick. Would be nice to know if anyone ever paid any attention to it in the feedback thread since other issues received responses yet this one never did even though I mentioned it multiple times in more than one thread.

Daemun of Khanid
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#8 - 2016-03-09 15:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Will add this here as well...

Other new nausea inducing effect made it from test server to live as well I see...

When using tracking camera GOD FORBID it make a straight line from the direction it's currently pointing towards what you want to look at. Instead it moves in an arc with absolutely no explanation or purpose.
I explained this once in last month's feedback thread but I'll do it again... motion sickness is induced when the brain picks up on movement that cannot be accounted for by the other senses. If what you eye's see is moving in odd directions, bouncing up and down or otherwise wobbling around then the brain gets confused and says "I didn't do that and I don't know why it happened" and nausea sets in. Please change it back and stop with the pointless attempts at "cinematic" b.s.

I will add... It only does this when the ship is moving. Must be related to the speed offset "feature" even though that feature is off it's still trying to weasel its way into camera movement. Whatever the cause... pls fix.

Edit: LOL this thing is so screwy. Clicking on targets for tracking cam it doesn't seem to know wtf it wants to do. some times it moves to the new target rather slowly, other times it goes in an arc, some time it shoots past the target then drifts it back to center and other times it shoots it straight to center. Clicking on a target that is in line with the target you already have selected makes it bounce off the target and then try to realign.... Pls start listening to feedback threads on the test server and stop putting trash on live.(Apologies as it seems to have been some sort of aberration/bug in the camera's behavior)

Edit: It literally doesn't know how it's supposed to react. I zoomed way out and back in and now its going to straight to targets. Not overshooting, not drifting around and it's moving at about half the speed it was a moment ago. So friggin screwy. I fully expect it to start wacky mode again at any moment now.

Daemun of Khanid
Aeson Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-03-09 15:30:31 UTC
Hate, loathe, various other synonyms are my feelings about the new camera. First person camera is totally useless and also makes me nauseous. Also, there are 9 buttons now to the left of the sensor overlay where as the old way had 7, don't like the extra clutter.

Also, when I go to ESC, and UNTICK "Try the new camera" it switches to the old camera but it's completely broken. I can't see my ship, I can't zoom in / out, and the edges of the screen look totally distorted.

I've already sent a bug report about this.

Also, why is there no ability to do "Center Tracking Position" with the new camera? It worked so well previously, just click on something in overview and BOOM the camera would pan to view it head on. New camera doesn't have this option, and to do that with the new camera I have to hold C on the keyboard and then click on something? WHY MAKE IT MORE complicated by changing what used to be one mouse click, to now a keyboard button + mouse click required.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#10 - 2016-03-09 15:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Damjan Fox
The inertia while zooming in/out is unnecessary and irritating. The camera needs to be fast and precise.
I'll stick to the old camera.

(and yes, i know there is an inertia slider)

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2016-03-09 15:48:00 UTC
Damjan Fox wrote:
The inertia while zooming in/out is unnecessary and irritating. The camera needs to be fast and precise.
I'll stick to the old camera.

go to settings and change the intertia settings
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#12 - 2016-03-09 16:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergey Hawk
I quote my own text regarding motion blur of stars and small objects in asteroid belts
Sergey Hawk wrote:
Ok. after update i turned off only one option: Dynamic Center Offset and this helped.
Zoom is now more responsive and I did not notice a blur of stars. But without custom tracking position I see no reason to use a new camera. Without dynamic center offset new camera like the old one with centered tracking position and nothing more.
Because of my windows arrangement I need to make my ship flew like in the screenshot.
My ship is fixed point of rotation and sun is custom tracking position
http://i.imgur.com/HKEJFeP.jpg
for now with new camera this is impossible

still i prefer to use the old camera

With all new feedback thread for the new camera CCP remind me Uber Entertainment that wants to get rid of negative Planetary Annihilation reviews

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#13 - 2016-03-09 17:25:33 UTC
Just to update, the wacky behavior I described before is still gone. I have no idea why it was behaving so oddly when I first undocked and started using it but it seems to have stabilized to pretty normal movements. Still sometimes moves in an arc between targets but not dramatically like it was to begin with. Must have been some sort of bug. Will update again if it happens after relogging.

Daemun of Khanid
Devinnis Pollard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-03-09 19:02:43 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Will add this here as well...

Other new nausea inducing effect made it from test server to live as well I see...

When using tracking camera GOD FORBID it make a straight line from the direction it's currently pointing towards what you want to look at. Instead it moves in an arc with absolutely no explanation or purpose.
I explained this once in last month's feedback thread but I'll do it again... motion sickness is induced when the brain picks up on movement that cannot be accounted for by the other senses. If what you eye's see is moving in odd directions, bouncing up and down or otherwise wobbling around then the brain gets confused and says "I didn't do that and I don't know why it happened" and nausea sets in. Please change it back and stop with the pointless attempts at "cinematic" b.s.

I will add... It only does this when the ship is moving. Must be related to the speed offset "feature" even though that feature is off it's still trying to weasel its way into camera movement. Whatever the cause... pls fix.

Edit: LOL this thing is so screwy. Clicking on targets for tracking cam it doesn't seem to know wtf it wants to do. some times it moves to the new target rather slowly, other times it goes in an arc, some time it shoots past the target then drifts it back to center and other times it shoots it straight to center. Clicking on a target that is in line with the target you already have selected makes it bounce off the target and then try to realign.... Pls start listening to feedback threads on the test server and stop putting trash on live.(Apologies as it seems to have been some sort of aberration/bug in the camera's behavior)

Edit: It literally doesn't know how it's supposed to react. I zoomed way out and back in and now its going to straight to targets. Not overshooting, not drifting around and it's moving at about half the speed it was a moment ago. So friggin screwy. I fully expect it to start wacky mode again at any moment now.


To add visuals to words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UugPIOGSM30
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#15 - 2016-03-09 19:15:38 UTC
Yup, thats what it was doing. Part of what it was doing at least. Eventually it did go away though. Still havent had a chance to try relogging to see if it returns.

Daemun of Khanid
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#16 - 2016-03-09 19:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Sergey Hawk wrote:
I hope you come up with how to remove stars motion blur

You mean that the stars in the background become blurry? Could you maybe try toggling all the camera settings, or changing the Graphic Content Settings (right side of the Esc menu), and seeing if any of those can reduce this effect?

Daemun Khanid wrote:
I'm wondering though if there's any change planned to the ship bobbing in station that is currently in effect on the test server?

This is a defect, we will fix it as soon as possible.

Dominous Nolen wrote:
Turtlepower - Can you comment on the loss of the tab function, please?

We are aware of this issue and hope to fix it soon, most likely as a bindable hotkey.

CCP Turtlepower


Just found that in the old feedback thread. Seems to have been posted between the last time I checked that thread and when this new thread was started. Thank you for the response regarding the issue and appologies for my saltiness. Blink

CCP Turtlepower wrote:

This is a known issue, this movement should be toggleable with the camera bobbing toggle.

o7
CCP Turtlepower


Also just realized I think I misinterpreted your comment here. I assumed you were saying that if he turned camera bobbing off that it would stop. I realize now that you were probably saying it's supposed to work that way but that it's currently broken and being worked on. Further apologies. o7

Daemun of Khanid
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-03-10 06:57:08 UTC
For now, new cam works perfectly. I notice you also added mousewheel zoom to the first-person mode which is getting quite interesting all of a sudden ..... Can I politely request to be able to zoom first person out even more? Just a little pls?

I managed to make the new cam work BETTER than the old one did, so I'm quite enthousiastic about it.

Must admit I haven't tried the tactical view yet.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-03-10 07:05:15 UTC
Oh, one more thing ... using the OLD camera removes the buttons to the left of the HUD.

(this is what compelled me to try the new cam - to my surprise, I stuck with the new one. I like it. But it's a bug nontheless)
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#19 - 2016-03-10 15:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Thank you for changing the CTRL+SHIFT behaviour to not cycle the tracking camera in orbit mode so it doesn't turn towards to deselecting target. During exploration moving from can to can felt rather cumbersome when the camera would randomly switch to the target I've already completed.


Noticing from time to time that the marque select (ALT) will get stuck after a gate jump. I will try and reproduce and submit a bug report next time i notice it.

Can you please give us a toggle to turn off the audio in the tracking and FPV cameras?

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Maraner
The Executioners
#20 - 2016-03-10 21:10:58 UTC
Still don't like it.

Death to all things new (joke)

Seriously please leave the old camera in as an option, I have tried the new but do prefer the old. Its nice that CCP put all this effort into the camera and I am sure that it will make lots of pretty vids for us all to enjoy in the years to come but after 10+ years of the existing camera I am not adapting to the new one easily.

I have also found very few of my friends that are liking it, I certainly have no genuine issue with a new camera being added into the game but I would ask that the old one remain as an option. I do not personally have any interest in a first person camera in this type of game but again up to the individual choice.

And my choice is to use the old camera. If the game currently allows the old and the new to exist side by side then there is no reason not to allow this to continue. If it is an issue of not wanting to support legacy code then make a simulation of the old using the new code and hang a button on it for us.

PLEASE LEAVE THE OLD CAMERA AS AN OPTION IN THE GAME
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