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March release - New Camera Feedback

First post
Author
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-03-10 23:44:59 UTC
Hello

I have tried to use the new one.....but I found myself instantly looking for the switch to turn it off.

Perhaps it is just that I am so used to the old view...I find this new orbit view to be distracting and too 'bouncy' if that is a way to describe it.

I have not gone through the mountains of posts in the previous versions of this thread.....but I have a question....

Is it not possible to program this new technology to have the same view as the old camera? Why the new view? What purpose does it serve? I honestly do not see how it makes actually playing the game any better.

As for the other two new views - I do not even understand the first person view one - until I get my carrier out and see the new fighter/bomber formation thing being developed I do not want to pass judgement, since it may be an integral part of the new system.

But getting back to the basics here - I am sorry but I do not like this new orbit view, I much prefer the centered view offered by the old camera. I would suggest rather than trying to 'make this better' that you look at how to make it more like what we had which was incredibly useful.

As a bit of an aside - what use case other than "this was old coding" did CCP have for making this change? Was there a silent majority of players clamoring for this change? I for one have never heard anyone that I have played with say "wow I wish they could change this camera view".

Sorry for the negative feedback on this one CCP but I'm sorry this one still does not fly for me.

~R~
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#22 - 2016-03-11 01:47:03 UTC
If you simply must get rid of the old camera, can you please make it so the DEFAULT settings for the new camera are as close as humanly possible to the old camera?

Thank you!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Isil Rahsen
Black Phoenyx
#23 - 2016-03-11 04:50:45 UTC
I can't stress enough that custom tracking position must return for the tracking camera to be of any use at all. While being able to turn the insane offset off is a good change it does not replicate the old camera's fuctionality which it must do if it is to become the only camera in the next month. We should be able to center track a target AND custom offset our tracking position to something less insane than pushing my ship so far to the left it might as well be off screen entirely.
Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#24 - 2016-03-11 08:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
The new camera still causes nausea. Especially the following:

If you turn off camera bobbing in the options, the bobbing is only reduced, not gone.
* The ship still moves up and down in station (good to see with small ships)
* Celestials still keep moving if you are close to them.

The autotracking option of the orbit camera (shift+c) if a bit wobbly. It swings to the selected object fast, but then it wobbles left and right for a bit. Please remove this additional movement.

Other issues:

The option to quickly zoom to your ship (look at my ship) with Alt-Leftclick (in space) is gone. Please offer this option again.

Sometimes the sun makes the lighting on the screen flicker, if you quickly turn your camara towards it, with your ship partly in the way. You can reproduce this by doubleclicking the sun in the probescanner window or clicking it on the overview with the autotracking option turned on.

My camera settings are:
* Camera center: middle
* Inertia: about 4/5 stiff
* all other options: off
CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2016-03-11 13:23:47 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I find this new orbit view to be distracting and too 'bouncy' if that is a way to describe it.... Is it not possible to program this new technology to have the same view as the old camera?

Please try going to the Esc menu, Display&Graphics tab, ticking off Dynamic FOV and Dynamic Center Offset, and setting the inertia slider all the way to the right (stiff). This should make the new camera feel almost identical to the old one.

Grookshank wrote:
The option to quickly zoom to your ship (look at my ship) with Alt-Leftclick (in space) is gone. Please offer this option again.

This is working normally for me. Could you please try clearing your cache, and if the issue persists after that, filing a bug report from in-game?

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming :)

o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-03-11 13:31:26 UTC
Is there a way to remove / change the zoom function the camera offers?

When pressing ALT+scroll up/down it zooms. I have not found a way to remove this feature yet.

I use ALT for stuff like teamspeak, so it's kind annoying at the moment.


Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#27 - 2016-03-11 13:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I find this new orbit view to be distracting and too 'bouncy' if that is a way to describe it.... Is it not possible to program this new technology to have the same view as the old camera?

Please try going to the Esc menu, Display&Graphics tab, ticking off Dynamic FOV and Dynamic Center Offset, and setting the inertia slider all the way to the right (stiff). This should make the new camera feel almost identical to the old one.

Grookshank wrote:
The option to quickly zoom to your ship (look at my ship) with Alt-Leftclick (in space) is gone. Please offer this option again.

This is working normally for me. Could you please try clearing your cache, and if the issue persists after that, filing a bug report from in-game?

Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming :)

o7
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters

I tested again after clearing the cache: It does not work. I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing though. What I could do with the old camera is:
* Hold ALT
* Click anywhere in space
* Get an instant zoom to my ship

That does not work with the new camera.
Example video: http://www.filedropper.com/2016-03-11-1427-23

Bug report is: https://community.eveonline.com/support/bug-reports/my-bug-reports/details?issueId=EBR-72040
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#28 - 2016-03-12 08:36:52 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
(...)

As a bit of an aside - what use case other than "this was old coding" did CCP have for making this change? Was there a silent majority of players clamoring for this change? I for one have never heard anyone that I have played with say "wow I wish they could change this camera view".

Sorry for the negative feedback on this one CCP but I'm sorry this one still does not fly for me.

~R~


The short answer is that CCP got a new art director for EVE last year and he's leaving his footprint in EVE art.

(Mind you, this is the actual answer for you as a customer and what you can expect from further modifications of EVE's art assets. There are other answers available in corporate/PR/techie lingo, but they don't account on why CCP is spending months to make the new camera look as the old one AFTER the new camera is coded and not BEFORE adding all the uncalled psssshhhh to it)
Lapuna Nejilii
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-03-12 13:20:00 UTC
Hello,

There are some things with the new camera that are not bearable (imo).

To start, the hud bug (already reported). No matter what camera center you set, the hud will be centered, which is very annoying with 2 screens.

The camera "warp offset". When you warp, the camera is centered around a point in front of your ship, not on your ship, I find it disturbing.

The depth screwer zoom (or lotr zoom, or whatever it is called) (ctrl + LMB + RMB). This one is the worst after the camera center imo. It's a nausea trigger and it mess with your perception of space. It's also impossible to find the default control zoom again.
It's also easy to use it by accident. Suppose you are locking ships and you want to zoom out or in to view more ships, you accidentaly use this zoom (it happened more than once to me).

The camera rotation. I find it very unintuitive, whenever I want to look at something behind me, I always end up having only rotated between 30° and 150° (approximately). It could be an after effect of the control zoom.

The other camera rotation. With the old camera, you can look around with the right click, it was a good thing that is missing with the new one.

The follow camera. Not being able to reset the camera on your ship with an alt + click in space is annoying. Using alt + tab a lot, I often accidentaly put the camera on an enemy I click on (the alt stays when you come back in the game), and I always need to click on the camera button or alt + click my ship, it's a loss of time and can sometimes lead to death.

Other than that, this camera is okay, and I like the first person camera, it's useful to dscan with a narrow angle where your ship is aimed at.

Oh, and something I almost forgot, a real FOV option (something you can set in the display options) could be very nice.

Thanks for the new camera turn off option, I think it's the best thing with the new camera.
And sorry for the people that have put works into this.

Lap'
Memphis Baas
#30 - 2016-03-12 15:07:06 UTC
Not quite related, but there's not enough visual feedback that an undock has been requested. The undock button is yellow, and yes there are strobe lights in the station exit tunnel indicating you're about to go, but if your ship-spinning camera isn't pointed towards the exit, you won't see them.

Can you rotate the in-station camera to point in the same direction as the ship (towards the exit), when the undock button is pressed? That way we'll see the strobe lights.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#31 - 2016-03-12 16:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Unchecking dynamic center offset fixed most things for me it resembles old cam closest with weird things here and there nothing to prevent me from playing .

All of new options are good imo just not as default settings but rather as tools to make good vids or eye candy if one choose too.

I would like to see both offset and fow as instant options on hud rather than 1st person cam and tactical cam

1st person cam is pure gimmick it does not warrant butan! on screen and tact cam is like zoom out twice...thers you tactical view.

Swap those with new options and there you go powerful tools at your fingertips.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#32 - 2016-03-12 17:48:42 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Not quite related, but there's not enough visual feedback that an undock has been requested. The undock button is yellow, and yes there are strobe lights in the station exit tunnel indicating you're about to go, but if your ship-spinning camera isn't pointed towards the exit, you won't see them.

Can you rotate the in-station camera to point in the same direction as the ship (towards the exit), when the undock button is pressed? That way we'll see the strobe lights.


Huh, you know I never even noticed the lighting changes when you request undock. Shocked

Daemun of Khanid

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#33 - 2016-03-12 18:43:01 UTC
My issue with the new camera:

I right click in space and my camera becomes unanchored.

Now, this wouldn't be too bad if it were as easy to reattach the camera as it is to unattach it.

I'll do a simply right click in space so I can select a warp to or orbit option, and boom, camera disconnected. Now I have to right click again and manually select the option to look at my ship, to then try and right click my original intention only to have the camera unanchor.

If you're going to make it so incredibly convenient to unanchor the camera, you need to make it just as easy to reattach it.

As it is, it's not very appealing. It may have great options and oh so super cool features, but because of this horrible initial detachment mechanic, I won't even give it a chance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2016-03-12 18:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The following issues remain unresolved:

• There is no way (at least none that is obvious) to adjust the tracking point of the tracking camera. This leads to most targets being hidden behind the ship. This solves the old design fault of not having your ship centred at all times, but does so in such a way as to ensure you don't see the target instead. Bring back the old tracking point setting, and remember to still keep your own ship centred. Effectively, this means that the tracking camera still isn't a tracking camera, but now it isn't one in a completely new (but equally useless) way than the previous attempt.

• Turning auto-tracking on does not track your current target. You have to enable the tracking camera, then select an object for it to start tracking, rather than the old behaviour where just turning tracking would… well… turn the tracking on. While there is a separate “track target” command, there is no rhyme or reason to the auto-tracking not auto-tracking when it is turned on.

• Tracking camera does not toggle. If you are tracking a target, turning the tracking camera off does not turn the tracking camera off — all it does is ensure that the next time you pick an object, that object is not being tracked. You still have to break the tracking manually. This holds true for both the auto-track, and single-track commands.

• Look camera does not toggle. Same thing here: if you are looking at a target, repeating the action does not turn the look camera off; quite the opposite. Turning look off is a separate action. This is particularly silly since, unlike the tracking camera, the “selected objects” panel actually does offer a functional toggle — it just doesn't carry over to the camera shortcut.

• FoV adjustments are insanely limited. While the shortcut for adjusting FoV is more convenient than the old Ctrl-Alt-RL-Mouse Drag, the actual range of the adjustment is crippled to hell. You used to be able to look right down the throat of a station undock from 500km away (a pretty important feature for properly lining up insta-undocks); now even the most narrow zoom still leaves the station a speck in the distance. The old keyboard combination is still there, but offers the exact same adjustment and is therefore pointless.

• Still not independent RClick-slewing of the camera that lets you quick-look away and then snap back to your previous direction.

• Still no equal and linear acceleration on zoom, pan, and tilt.

• Camera resets and changes still aren't instant, and instead involve some insipid and drunken camera move to shift the camera over to the new object. Even with all fancy effects and inertia turned off, you spend time looking at nothing rather than the thing you're asking the game to show you.

But two things have been fixed at least:

• Settings like the tactical overview seem to persist between mode switches.
• Minimum inertia offers a useful camera stability.


Conclusion, same as before: just fully reimplement every last bit of functionality of the old camera, because it is still in every way vastly superior to all new camera modes combined. If you absolutely must have a tactical view to make the new carrier drone UI make sense, and you feel very strongly about having a dynamic view for movie making, then that's fine. They're secondary to the point of utter and complete irrelevance compared to having a basic camera that works, though, so get working on that part some time much later when you've refactored the old camera fully into the new system.

New camera is not ready for prime-time and remains turned off.
Heavy Metall
THR3SHOLD
#35 - 2016-03-12 19:04:36 UTC
Please give us a tick box to revert back to the classic camera I beg you CCP
Heavy Metall
THR3SHOLD
#36 - 2016-03-12 19:09:18 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
If you simply must get rid of the old camera, can you please make it so the DEFAULT settings for the new camera are as close as humanly possible to the old camera?

Thank you!



or give us the option to "tick box" to use the old camera


o/
Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#37 - 2016-03-13 10:37:33 UTC
The FOV adjustment of the new camera needs an option slider so you can reliably set it. Also please make it possible to remove the keybinding to ALT+scroll for it, so you can just set it to a fixed value.
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#38 - 2016-03-13 11:05:02 UTC
I really like the new camera its excellent.
Albert Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-03-13 12:20:56 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
The FOV adjustment of the new camera needs an option slider so you can reliably set it. Also please make it possible to remove the keybinding to ALT+scroll for it, so you can just set it to a fixed value.


this, i can't believe a dedicated pc game like this has no fov slider, and now since the last patch has no fov for ultrawide monitors
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-03-13 19:51:17 UTC
Orbit camera: It is still missing two important features for me, the 'look about' while holding left mouse button, and the ability to zoom in by holding the right MB and moving the mouse forward/backwards.

this dude made a vid,

Xercodo wrote:
Simple list here:

- Bring back the ability to use right click to pivot the camera on its own axis and do extreme zooming when using the orbit camera (Sorry for the really old vid but you get the idea :D)
- I'd LOVE for the ability for the same to work on the FP camera so I can look around without changing course of the ship.



need a toggle for 'c', having to press it each time is pony.