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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

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Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#401 - 2016-02-28 02:29:46 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...

Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#402 - 2016-02-28 02:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Death Reactor
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
"a program (as a word processor or a spreadsheet) that performs one of the major tasks for which a computer is used" from the dictionary. Id say being a interface that communicates high language to binary fits that role.


Making up your own definitions doesn't really have binding on a EULA written up by lawyers that are better at this whole semantics game than you are.


Sorry i didnt make it up. the dictionary did. Lot more credible than your wisegeeks link. Simply put when you get to the heart of it windows is a application and words matter and any lawyer will tell you this. 3rd party application is any application not developed by ccp.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#403 - 2016-02-28 02:31:07 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...

Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule.


Doesnt need to operate under a operating system.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#404 - 2016-02-28 02:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:
...windows is a application and words matter and any lawyer will tell you this. 3rd party application is any application not developed by ccp.

3rd party application in relation to ccp are other entities than the client - server.
The server, ccp, is a party, the client, user is a second party, the 3rd party application programs (software and/or hardware) are a third party.
Just because someone makes an operating system that ccp can run under or with doesn't mean that it is not a 3rd party. Windows also runs on it's own software by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.

Edit:
Error:
Windows also runs on it's own software by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.

Correction:
Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#405 - 2016-02-28 02:35:13 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...

Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule.


My point exactly.

Daemun of Khanid
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#406 - 2016-02-28 02:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
One

Two

Three

Four

As I said before...It's all moot anyway.

"We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or is used for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk."

"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."

Doesn't matter how you define a 3rd party app CCP go the extra mile and not only put the ball SOLELY in their court in determining what they will and will not allow but they also give very specific examples as to what they will NOT allow.

Have a nice day.

Daemun of Khanid
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#407 - 2016-02-28 02:42:37 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
One

Two

Three

Four
You can pop as many definitions as you want, it's pretty much irrelevant. A third party application is any application not developed by the first party developer. In this case the first party developer would be CCP, so they class anything outside of EVE as third party, including the operating system. You cannot chop up your EVE client regardless of whether or not you are doing it through you OS directly on an app installed on it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#408 - 2016-02-28 02:43:47 UTC
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...
Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule."


Doesnt need to operate under a operating system.


Daemun Khanid wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...
Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule."


My point exactly.

Exactly and windows is an operating system application which makes it a separate and special type of application as are all operating systems.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#409 - 2016-02-28 02:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. P

As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.

Daemun of Khanid
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#410 - 2016-02-28 02:48:37 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...
Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule."


Doesnt need to operate under a operating system.


Daemun Khanid wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
...what operating system windows operates under then ...
Buzz Orti: "Windows does not operate under an operating system for the simple reason that it is an operating system.
Negative logic rule."


My point exactly.

Exactly and windows is an operating system application which makes it a separate and special type of application as are all operating systems.


Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.

and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#411 - 2016-02-28 02:49:51 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
One

Two

Three

Four
You can pop as many definitions as you want, it's pretty much irrelevant. A third party application is any application not developed by the first party developer. In this case the first party developer would be CCP, so they class anything outside of EVE as third party, including the operating system. You cannot chop up your EVE client regardless of whether or not you are doing it through you OS directly on an app installed on it.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#412 - 2016-02-28 02:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Daemun Khanid wrote:
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. P

As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.


Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.

Daemun of Khanid
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#413 - 2016-02-28 02:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:
...

Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.

and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge.


^^
Correction:
Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.

Special relationship such as windows and MacOS or Linux?

Edit:
Error:
What is your definition is those OSes and how it is related to in the EULA.
Correction:
1. What is your definition in relation to those OSes and how they are related to EVE ? ,
2. and how is it a special relationship in relation to 3rd party software or applications ?
- - Isn't it another entity external to the third party application which can also run on Android OS or other OS with the proper OS data compatibility interface? Since 3rd party apps are apps running for and in relation to EVE, not that EVE has to run on?
3. and how it is related to in the EULA ?

Also, the 3rd party license is not the same as the EULA.
The contract, not treaty or convention is the difference, if not an exception explicitly said, whether relevant or not, or omitted...

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2016-02-28 02:58:06 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. P

As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.


Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.


That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2016-02-28 03:00:18 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
...

Except that any special relationship such as windows is not noted in the eula. There is no exception explicitly said.

and to my stalker "of or relating to a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation." 3rd party google+common knowledge.


^^
Correction:
Windows also runs on it's own hardware (not software) by the way, as it does run on IBM hardware and clone as well.

Special relationship such as windows and MacOS or Linux?

What is your definition is those OSes and how it is related to in the EULA.
Also, the 3rd party license is not the same as the EULA.
The contract, not treaty or convention is the difference, if not an exception explicitly said, whether relevant or not, or omitted...

Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#416 - 2016-02-28 03:01:11 UTC
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. P

As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.


Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.


That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing.


Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s).

Daemun of Khanid
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#417 - 2016-02-28 03:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:

Guess what. News for you. Everything runs on hardware, some simply need the help of windows to operate in.


That is not news to me, and if you can make hardware and can't make OS to run software on, you will need to hire an entity to create it or do it or run it.
Hardware is not designed to run software without OS.
Even console systems like PS3 or other have their own OS.

So, you are interpreting some of the info you mention as if to try to steal from me or try to discredit me, or both.


Edit:
The communication system is also unforgiving enough to cause blatant errors such as the omission of the quoted text from you, and make it too hard to verify how it occured and why enough to be at peace with it.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#418 - 2016-02-28 03:07:22 UTC
I've honestly lost track of what you guys are arguing at this point. Lol

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#419 - 2016-02-28 03:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Death Reactor
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
See edited post above. You're too quick responding for me. P

As I was trying to say, it's all just semantics in an attempt to circumvent eula. 3rd party can be used to describe pretty much anything depending on what device or software you are considering the 1st party. Anything that runs in windows not written by microsoft is third party from the operating system. The operating system (if it's windows and microsoft didn't themselves manufacture the hardware) is considered 3rd party to the hard ware developer. If EvE is the 1st party than anything not written by CCP is 3rd party and they make it very clear that they have the leeway to determine what "3rd party" software involvement to allow and what not to allow.


Quoting myself because I simply can't edit fast enough to prevent double posting every time.
You can argue the definition all you want, I can accept the consideration of windows being 3rd party in relation to an EvE client. Fine and dandy, the eula still has the bases well and fully covered.


That leeway is simply unenforcment. Picking and choosing.


Which they quite literally reserve the right to do in the licensing agreement you agreed to when you started your account(s).


except that they have neither allowed or disallowed any specific programs within the eula The eula is what has been agreed to. and last i checked i didnt sign a eula that said windows ok, everything else no. Any alteration to the eula must be updated and reaccepted. If there was a specification of programs they must be in the eula and not some forum post that most people dont even read.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#420 - 2016-02-28 03:09:57 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I've honestly lost track of what you guys are arguing at this point. Lol

I don't like to argue and it would be a waste of my time.
I have more worthwhile challenges to deal with.

Same reasons why it's more efficient for me to copyright / patent software / hardware and the OS interface as well as their related knowledge base..

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.