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Remove Leadership skill requirements from T2 Battle Cruisers Or....

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Renfus
Dread Fleet
Drop Imminent
#1 - 2016-02-24 16:19:26 UTC
Could we get T2 BCs that we dont have to train Leadership skills forever and a day to get into plz..
or remove the leadership skills requirement from the command ships...

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.
Considering most people flying links use T3 Cruisers, and leadership skills are not needed to fly those ships..
And most people in command ships are not fitting links..

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SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-02-24 16:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
First of all, there is pretty much no chance of that time sink being removed. Chop the leadership skills off and the train-time for a command ship is less than for a HAC. At best, it would be converted into some comparable timesink. However, there isn't much else available that thematically fits command ships quite as well as leadership skills.

Secondly, as the entire concept of boosting is slated for substantial changes, the way people currently fit out a booster ship has very little merit as an argument.

Anyway, I would be more than happy to sell you some skill injectors to speed you along on your journey to becoming a command ship pilot.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2016-02-24 17:26:12 UTC
just suck it up and train the damn skills , they are actually worth it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2016-02-24 17:26:55 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
First of all, there is pretty much no chance of that time sink being removed. Chop the leadership skills off and the train-time for a command ship is less than for a HAC.


This is patently false, considering you have to train a racial BC skill to 5 to get into any CS, whereas HACs require only a cruiser 5.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-02-24 17:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Soldarius wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
First of all, there is pretty much no chance of that time sink being removed. Chop the leadership skills off and the train-time for a command ship is less than for a HAC.


This is patently false, considering you have to train a racial BC skill to 5 to get into any CS, whereas HACs require only a cruiser 5.


HACs require cruiser V (rank 5) , as well as Weapon Upgrades V and Energy Grid Upgrades V, each of which are rank 2.

Command ships, minus the leadership skills, require BC V which is a rank 6. This is the ONLY skill they require above III, except for leadership skills.

Consequently, HACs take longer by 3 ranks than command-ships-minus-leadership.

For the least-trained character I have (really no spaceship command or support skills at all), the difference is about 17 days longer to train into a Zealot than an Absolution after subtracting the leadership skills (optimized stats, not a full set of implants, though - only 2, 4, and 5 +3s), though some of this is down to the remaining CS skills all sharing attributes.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2016-02-24 18:00:31 UTC
Renfus wrote:
Could we get T2 BCs that we dont have to train Leadership skills forever and a day to get into plz..
or remove the leadership skills requirement from the command ships...

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.
Considering most people flying links use T3 Cruisers, and leadership skills are not needed to fly those ships..
And most people in command ships are not fitting links..

You train a command ship, which has the role to work as a booster and warfare link ship in a fleet. Whether you do not want to use links on that ship is of no concern whatsoever to the intended role of that ship. Besides of that, you could actually stop complaining about very useful skills in the game and make yourself more useful in the fleet by being able to work as squad commanders or wing commanders, which you can train with the command ship prerequisite skills and who are often times in short supply.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#7 - 2016-02-24 18:03:49 UTC
No. Suck it up buttercup.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2016-02-24 18:23:22 UTC
Renfus wrote:

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.


Except that is the very point of the ship. To use links.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2016-02-24 21:38:37 UTC
command ships do not require link skill. at all. they never have.

they require leadership skills, tha boost your fleet just by you having them (and being in the right spot of course)
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-02-24 23:10:47 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
just suck it up and train the damn skills , they are actually worth it.

I got grandfathered in previous to the changes, and here I sit training them anyway. The irony.

CS V is going to be pain in the ****.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#11 - 2016-02-25 00:59:35 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
just suck it up and train the damn skills , they are actually worth it.

I got grandfathered in previous to the changes, and here I sit training them anyway. The irony.

CS V is going to be pain in the ****.


Congratulations! It's only 3 weeks if you train battleship to 5 three times, you know what a long train is Smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-02-25 02:40:19 UTC
Command Ships didn't used to have the leadership skills requirement but CCP altered that a couple years ago.

Don't think they are going to change it back anytime soon.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#13 - 2016-02-25 07:03:55 UTC
As my alt has finished training for command ships and I am now working on the BC skills with Minni and Gallente done - it hasn't been that bad in hindsight.

Once I get the other support skills up - I should be able to take that toon out for some PVP.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-02-25 19:44:24 UTC
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Command Ships didn't used to have the leadership skills requirement but CCP altered that a couple years ago.

Don't think they are going to change it back anytime soon.

And rightly so, a ship for pumping out gang links should require skills for pumping out gang links. When they adjusted the skill reqs the tech 3s became decidedly worse at gang links, hence them not needing leadership skills.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#15 - 2016-02-25 19:47:45 UTC
So glad I trained command ships to level 1 before the battlecruiser/destroyer skill split

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Renfus
Dread Fleet
Drop Imminent
#16 - 2016-02-26 13:53:00 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Renfus wrote:

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.


Except that is the very point of the ship. To use links.


Well then if that's the case then any ship you can fit links into should require leaderships skills..
T1 BC, Command Destroyers and especially T3 cruisers.

Fact is 99% of links ships we see now days are T3 Cruisers.
which do not require leadership skills to pilot the ship, but you need those skills to use the links modules...
Which is the way it should be.
That's why i said leadership skills should not be a requirement for T2 BCs...

BUT hey if CCP wants to keep it that way then fine..
How about giving us some new T2 BCs that do not require leadership skills...
And they can add the same skill requirements needed for HACs since evidently without leadership skills the train for a command ship would be less then a HAC.

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2016-02-26 14:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Renfus wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Renfus wrote:

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.
Except that is the very point of the ship. To use links.
Well then if that's the case then any ship you can fit links into should require leaderships skills..
T1 BC, Command Destroyers and especially T3 cruisers.

BUT hey if CCP wants to keep it that way then fine..
How about giving us some new T2 BCs that do not require leadership skills...
And they can add the same skill requirements needed for HACs since evidently without leadership skills the train for a command ship would be less then a HAC.

There is a flaw: T1 BC and T3 are general purpose ships, and T2 BC and CD are specialized ships. A general purpose ship does not need the specialization skills, a T2 specialization ship needs them and should have them.

Another flaw is that you do not understand how ship skill training works. CCP rightfully so does not want you to be able to fly too many ships with a small set of skills. Introducing new, purely DPS focused T2 BC would mean the introduction of new skills in order to keep their skill training time more or less on par with the current command ships, for instance, by splitting up the command ship skill into a Warfare CS and a Combat CS skill, maybe some weapon, navigation and science skills mixed in. Whatever you do, you won't get a significantly shorter skill training time for that DPS CS than the current Warfare CS require.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#18 - 2016-02-26 14:56:48 UTC
I'm so happy I trained CS to 5 on my main combat character before they changed it twice.

On the link characters I won't complain but PVP mehh...

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-02-26 15:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Renfus wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Renfus wrote:

Being able to use links should have nothing to do with piloting the ship it self.


Except that is the very point of the ship. To use links.


Well then if that's the case then any ship you can fit links into should require leaderships skills..
T1 BC, Command Destroyers and especially T3 cruisers.

Fact is 99% of links ships we see now days are T3 Cruisers.
which do not require leadership skills to pilot the ship, but you need those skills to use the links modules...
Which is the way it should be.
That's why i said leadership skills should not be a requirement for T2 BCs...

BUT hey if CCP wants to keep it that way then fine..
How about giving us some new T2 BCs that do not require leadership skills...
And they can add the same skill requirements needed for HACs since evidently without leadership skills the train for a command ship would be less then a HAC.


Command destroyers already require leadership skills (Leadership V, Warfare Link Spec IV).

OGB is planned to be removed, so, "Hurr, T3s," is a non-starter, as arguments go. They're only favored because the current mechanics allow for them to boost without actually being shot at.

They're probably not going to add a new T2 BC just so one whiner can fly a T2 BC hull without training leadership skills. That's not really how any of this works.

TL;DR: No.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/