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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

First post First post
Author
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#121 - 2016-02-24 00:10:27 UTC
Emrys Alf wrote:
Is this new ban on programs and screen managers going to be the same as removing fleet warps?

It seems so..

Seems very knee jerk.. and not though out how far it reaches..

So what was it that caused this desperate attempt to make it fair by banning overlays?
Is ISBoxxer Banned? PLH? Where is the line?



isboxxer may not be banned at this point but all of its features are
Archeras Umangiar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#122 - 2016-02-24 00:14:20 UTC
Som Boty wrote:
Emrys Alf wrote:
Is this new ban on programs and screen managers going to be the same as removing fleet warps?

It seems so..

Seems very knee jerk.. and not though out how far it reaches..

So what was it that caused this desperate attempt to make it fair by banning overlays?
Is ISBoxxer Banned? PLH? Where is the line?



isboxxer may not be banned at this point but all of its features are



m8... just say its banned, stop fiddling the line


technicly following that OP says, EVERY 3rd party tool is banned

that includes but is not limited to:
EFT
EVEMON
Trading Spreadsheets
Trading tools
and alot more

technicly everything, so thats the reason OP is pretty... *mhe, to not say bullshit*
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#123 - 2016-02-24 00:14:22 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
If it otherwise can't be done via the supplied client, I personally don't try to get around that.


No EFT/PYFA ?!

The in game fitting tools are literally a joke.. Be serious now.
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#124 - 2016-02-24 00:16:07 UTC
Archeras Umangiar wrote:
Som Boty wrote:
Emrys Alf wrote:
Is this new ban on programs and screen managers going to be the same as removing fleet warps?

It seems so..

Seems very knee jerk.. and not though out how far it reaches..

So what was it that caused this desperate attempt to make it fair by banning overlays?
Is ISBoxxer Banned? PLH? Where is the line?



isboxxer may not be banned at this point but all of its features are



m8... just say its banned, stop fiddling the line


technicly following that OP says, EVERY 3rd party tool is banned

that includes but is not limited to:
EFT
EVEMON
Trading Spreadsheets
Trading tools
and alot more

technicly everything, so thats the reason OP is pretty... *mhe, to not say bullshit*



i didn't disagree..
Avelis Hitman Ave
Iron Whales
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2016-02-24 00:31:11 UTC
What about an overlay that makes a sound anytime a neutral shows up in local ? Doesn't actually affect or interact with the game client; just a program that searches the pixels on the screen for a specific image and makes a sound if image is found ?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2016-02-24 00:34:14 UTC
This ISBoxer crackdown seems to be progressing at the same rate as monetization. Are you attempting to cut down on accounts per player now that you think you can make more money per account through monetization?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#127 - 2016-02-24 00:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Uppsy Daisy wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
If it otherwise can't be done via the supplied client, I personally don't try to get around that.


No EFT/PYFA ?!

The in game fitting tools are literally a joke.. Be serious now.

I don't think I've launched EFT in over three years. I tried PyFA once, but didn't like it.

For my current ship, I just bought modules and fit them, and when they didn't fit I bought the cheapest faction and deadspace modules that did fit, and resold the ones that didn't fit.

Of course, those tools use API and the SDE supplied by CCP, so I am personally not concerned about them. I also use EVEmon (with cache scraping disabled) and Aura, as well as DOTLAN.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#128 - 2016-02-24 00:38:52 UTC
When there isn't a single post in this thread supporting this overlay change, its probably a good indicator that you dun goofed.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2016-02-24 00:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Cerva Dynamite wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Well I'm ready to consolidate ten characters with 1.5 Billion SP into one account if that's the future norm. Let's do this CCP, stop beating around the bush.


I was just thinking about unsubbing my 7 accounts, but thats not such a bad idea.. consolidate all my SP into 3 accounts. 1 per monitor

No way. It would be one account with an increased character limit.

Same revenue, less server load, what's not to like.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2016-02-24 00:45:53 UTC
There's also been an effort to make EVE bigger. Literally more systems with wormholes and Thera / shattered, and then jump fatigue. Limiting players to one account would be another step in the same direction.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#131 - 2016-02-24 00:52:25 UTC
if players were forced to one client and not be at a disadvantage to multiboxers, you could start making EVE a HMD game.
Cerva Dynamite
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2016-02-24 00:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerva Dynamite
Rain6637 wrote:
There's also been an effort to make EVE bigger. Literally more systems with wormholes and Thera / shattered, and then jump fatigue. Limiting players to one account would be another step in the same direction.


I think this is a big ruse to combat ISK inflation.

If they follow through with this, and all the multiboxing miners unsub their alts/get banned the supply of ore is going to plummet. which for a while will make the prices go up, yes, but eventually they will drop as people stop having enough ISK to buy stuff.

Eventually the prices of everything will drop and the actual value of ISK will rise.

P.S.

I'm terribad at economying
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#133 - 2016-02-24 01:08:50 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Love the graph. Blink

I like to take responsibility for creative dev blog graphs.

First there was CCP Punkturis, whom seems to have since educated other devs:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=879268#post879268

Among her finest achievements, was "Hello Graph" (at bottom):
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/little-improvements-and-a-cake-1/
Look very closely for the watermark.

And then there was CCP Masterplan, the overachiever.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3880120#post3880120

I'm still working on CCP Seagull:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2465971#post2465971
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#134 - 2016-02-24 01:11:47 UTC
Here is an idea. Does your 3rd party software interfere with client code?

If yes, ban.
If no, carry on.

Is a 3rd party software so popular that players are willing to spend real money in addition to subscription? If so, maybe that's the world telling you that your game needs that feature. I think you have listened well when it comes to the game launcher, but window management, in game tools, and in game window arrangements are lacking enough that people are paying a significant amount to fix that for ya.
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#135 - 2016-02-24 01:22:22 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
Here is an idea. Does your 3rd party software interfere with client code?

If yes, ban.
If no, carry on.

Is a 3rd party software so popular that players are willing to spend real money in addition to subscription? If so, maybe that's the world telling you that your game needs that feature. I think you have listened well when it comes to the game launcher, but window management, in game tools, and in game window arrangements are lacking enough that people are paying a significant amount to fix that for ya.


i pay $50/year for isboxxer, it's not a lot of money in my opinion. certainly not inaccessible. contrary to some of the alliance tools which aren't accessible to the majority of the player base.

I don't know what CCP is thinking, when they have people being doxxed and third party apps like tripwire being backdoored to give access to all of the scanned sigs in the universe, but noooooo. lets target window management which is totally accessible, fair, and needed by everyone.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2016-02-24 01:23:47 UTC
Cerva Dynamite wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
There's also been an effort to make EVE bigger. Literally more systems with wormholes and Thera / shattered, and then jump fatigue. Limiting players to one account would be another step in the same direction.


I think this is a big ruse to combat ISK inflation.

If they follow through with this, and all the multiboxing miners unsub their alts/get banned the supply of ore is going to plummet. which for a while will make the prices go up, yes, but eventually they will drop as people stop having enough ISK to buy stuff.

Eventually the prices of everything will drop and the actual value of ISK will rise.

P.S.

I'm terribad at economying


As ship prices goes up, the isk being injected into the economy through insurance payouts increases, resulting in an increase in the amount of isk being generated.

So sorry, you got it backwards. Miners might quit, and ore prices might rise, but ever so slightly, so will isk inflation.
Memphis Baas
#137 - 2016-02-24 02:25:55 UTC
Well, instead of this "no modifying this EVE client that we have no interest in improving" business, they could get with the times and:

- create an interface for the client to provide restricted information and basic window controls to plug-ins
- have a system for the certification / approval of 3rd party plug-ins, so people can create in-game tools
- monetize the access to client plug-ins (it's like fitting a ship, CCP: pay to unlock 5 slots for alliance plugins, 4 slots for corp plugins, 6 slots for general/public plugins, etc.).

I think this belongs in the "horrible ideas" thread, but oh well... "horrible dev blog" thread close enough.
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#138 - 2016-02-24 02:28:59 UTC
I am not at the state of brinkmanship like some others. I find the play style that keeps me in the game is being slowly forced out.

We can debate specifics about this tool here and this function there, it would appear that CCP sees many account power users as a cost, rather a benefit to the greater community.

Question for CCP:
Did subscriptions go up after input broadcasting was banned? Are subscriptions expected to go up after 3rd party overlay tools are banned?

Maybe CCP has another goal in mind, but in my view unless a change is expected to increase active subscriptions, it is likely not a good one.

It is their game and they can make whatever rules they want; however, I feel longer term I will unsubscribe verses consolidate. Too many years spent on a particular vision.

Adapt or die as they say.
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2016-02-24 05:05:34 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thanks for all your feedback and criticism so far! Please keep it coming, we're watching this thread and will post replies to serious questions in the near future.


I use isboxer each time i play to get vision on my 4 accounts and to be able to switch easily between them.

Vision help me to see when a warp is done or about to be done, if a ship come at a gate, where my mining cycle are, etc ...

It help me a lot.

I fear that it is what you are calling an unfair advantage, which would simply doom my user experience.



Not wishing to reopen the taps on the ISBOXER flame thrower again but this post is the first I have seen in the whole of the EULA debate that encapsulates the issue for players,, That of User experience, That ethereal experience obtained while playing such on line games as Eve.

The truth here is that the EULA is no longer fit for the purpose it was written for in many major areas, as such CCP has always disguised this by telling the players, 'Everything you need to know is in the terms of the EULA', and replying to question regarding it obvious grey areas by players in a manner such as 'Oh you don't understand the EULA, that is OK we will interpret it for you, your obviously not intelligent enough to get were we are coming from'. while at the same time mashing the ban button daily.

What I have never understood in the ISBOXER and many other utilities debate is why CCP is so shocked to find that people who play an innovative game like Eve are themselves not going to be innovative in the way they play it. ISBOXER itself showed players however many 'Seperate' screens as they chose to operate, the trough of subscriptions which at one time CCP was happy to snuffle in without question for years, But it was only when they realised that players flying ships other than mining vessels were gaining a unfair advantage like that of bomber fleets in the area of player interaction did they suddenly jump up and ban the thing outright, But even there they were shifty about what was said and never really clarified it outright, Now who's not playing fair CCP.

With the current debate regarding P2W in game raging on in other threads it does beg the question as to why, given the desire of players to use these innovative products coupled with CCP desire to make Eve produce better profits margins, CCP do not embrace the ideas and code there own versions of ISBOXER that could be rented by players on a monthly basis, That way they themselves could control the coding as to how they worked and what ships they could be used upon, Banning players that use multiple screens, One monitor or not really is not going to make this debate ever go away in my view.

CCP needs to be as innovative as the players that sub Eve, You built it as a sandbox don't complain when players take your own hype and use it to the best of there ability.
Sumo Sabezan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#140 - 2016-02-24 05:16:28 UTC
I have several problems with this blog. The first being the extreme vagueness. It states that we are not allowed to use 3rd party tools that would give us an advantage over other players that don't use it. However that is the nature of 3rd party tools. They wouldn't be used if they didn't give an advantage. There are plenty of free programs, that any player can download. If they choose not to, or don't know about it that is their problem not mine.

Second, the overlay banning is just ridiculous. All this now encourages is for players who made use of this to go out and buy more monitors so that they don't have to have cut pieces out / overlay others on top. This makes literally 0 sense and is a step in the wrong direction. The broadcasting changes were at least understandable as those had no way to really be replicated outside of 3rd party tools, but overlays, etc do. I have a lot of accounts, I'm not going to hide that but these changes could potentially mean unsubbing a lot of them as they are my main source of isk income and IRL $$ is tight at the moment.

You guys did great with changing your position on FAX skill books, I hope you do the same here as well.