EVE General Discussion

You're incorrect.

I am not. Do you understand that looking at average players is fine, but what you learn from a case assuming equlity, does not apply to the average engagement (fight) in EVE? There is a difference in comparing average player(like you do), and average engagement (like I do).

Where the latter would be more informative. How does skillpoint injection affect the average fight in EVE is more interesting than how does it affect an artifiical average players fight against himself with more injected SP. It will be more informative as it is what will happen on tranquility (people with different SP figthing against each other). You try to paint the picture that I am being dishonest by not looking at averages, but fail to understand I look at the concept of the average fight. This is a case of you extrapolating data unto a case where it does not apply by confusing the discussion, leading to a faulty conclusion.

My point is that your conclusion that SP trading is OP pay2win when comparing two average players, does not mean that the average fight will be affected on tranquility. My personal opinion is that the average fight will be not as affected as ships, fittings and other stuff affect the fight more. That is what is relevant.

That word "potentially" is doing all the work for your argument (well, lamentation) there... Who can actually leapfrog your years of training? Two groups of people.

1. People who (unlike me, donations welcome) have figured out how to generate billions of ISK "in game" in a relatively short time. Whether they do this by exploiting certain game mechanics, or by being a "top dog" of some large group of players - one thing is clear: in some way or the other, they are playing EVE very well. And as it happens, almost all of them will be vets, since generally speaking you do not win the competition for ISK faucets in EVE unless you are. So vets that play EVE very well, and perhaps occasionally younger characters that play EVE incredibly well, can achieve your dream in minutes instead of years. Sounds fair to me.

2. People who (largely unlike me, donations welcome) have figured out how to have so much cash left over in real life that they will not think twice about dumping hundreds or even thousands of dollars on something as unimportant as a video game. Whereas you are quite likely PLEXing your game, basically paying nothing, or maybe have a long subscription, keeping your play time as cheap as possible. Be that as it may, if somebody actually pays in minutes several times what you have paid over the years, then they can achieve your dream in minutes instead of years. Sounds fair to me.

The only thing really unfair about this - and indeed, mildly insane - is that there is extreme content locking like this in the first place. You should be mad at CCP for making you wait that incredibly long to play how you actually want to play with their game. It's just a game, you know, it's not like getting a professional degree in the real world... Instead you are mad at other players avoiding being locked into the same tiny corner of the sandbox as long as you were.


First, CCP is a business. If somebody has been PLEXing their account(s) - and all their AUR purchases - through in-game generated ISK since November 2008, then that person may be a respected vet in game, but for CCP they are at best a content generator for others and at worst a deadbeat costing them server time. A newbie to middling player may well have a much larger positive impact on their bottom line, and you can bet that one statistics CCP is keeping firmly in mind is from what part of the player base the money is flowing. There is no a priori value to retaining someone in game for a decade, unless they keep on paying real money all the time and/or make the game much better for those who are still paying. If you are a PLEXing vet, can you honestly say that your gaming makes EVE a cooler place for those who do pay for the game? Because if not, then there is no real reason for CCP why you should be playing their game...

Second, one thing that has been changing in EVE all the time quite simply is the number of older players. There are more and more of them, and older and older ones. If you were really there from the start, and stayed active, then you have never played EVE like a new player finds EVE now. You have always been among peers of roughly comparable experience and stats. If you started a bit later, then there were some people ahead of you, but still not that many. And so on over the years, with the unbalancing of them game by previous generations getting worse and worse for those who started later and later. If you start now, then those Titan-flying demigods that complain about earning only a few 100M ISK/hr AFK are not your peers. The game is ludicrously top heavy. If CCP wants to get new people playing this game, they have to somehow reduce the gap. A lot. Whether SP trading will help I do not know, but they have to start somewhere.

Let them eat cake! The more competition I have out there pew pewing the better. The game is fun and this will enhance it to some degree .. Yes skill injectors and extractors I consider a tad whack but if it gets new players a little more involved and happy then whatever. People in an alliance I would imagine can already fly a majority of the doctrines anyhow... Now capitals are a different story, but if some alliance is going to pay that amount to get newer players into those kinds of ships and run the risk of the new player not getting bored with the game and leaving, then by all means go for it.


Also c'mon fellas think about all those poor miners out there with all their skill points in industry and not shooting specialties. Now they can switch it up and go on fleets with all their pirate buddies instead of moping around in a station spinning while everyone goes out and has fun.





Now if they could just add 8 more high slots only usable for medium sized weapons on capital ships to simulate anti air guns then I would be stoked.

Did you really need 1500 words to say that?

I disagree. That's all there is to it. I've laid out my case over at least 20 comments and am tired of debating in circles. But you should know that literally all of your assumptions about me were incorrect.

It's fine though. There's no need to respond. I haven't played in weeks and I expect this is the end of my EVE game. No need to poke the bear. I'm not sure what I'll do this Summer now as I've been planning an EVE summer since 2016 began but I'll find something else. It's OK.

SP Trading devalued MY game irrespective of what happened to yours or anyone else's. SP Trading is not EVE. Erasing your mistakes is not EVE. Instant gratification is not EVE. It's great that you think what took players like me years should only take minutes now. It's great that you think vets make the game stale and stagnant. And it's great that you think despite paying a subscription that players should be asked for more $. All great.

But that is not the EVE I know.

So I disagree.

YK

I like them. It allows me to fly the ships that I want to fly when I want to fly them, instead of waiting months. I think they're too expensive but the price doesn't surprise me really.

I see SP injections as a continuation of CCPs general strategy when releasing new feature or in the buff/nerf cycles of balance passes. The cycle seems to be to release a concept in its most idealistic form then sit back and watch what happens, with the initial release being limited only by trapping out the most obvious and egregious abuses.

Then they sit back and watch how far the player base actually abuses things, as opposed to locking everything down tightly from the beginnin out of fears of hypothetical exploits. As time goes on, CCP makes calculated decisions to tone things down here and there while still allowing the exciting game play that can come from asymmetries.

We've seen this with aggro mechanics, the original version of the NEX store, the introduction of almost every new ship since ever (most recently t3d), and countless other elements of the game. It appears that FozzieSOV is being rescinded when citadels come out. Speaking of Citadel and the accompanying Cap reworking, wasn't the original Dread ridiculously over-powered with its doomsday? Wasn't that also pay to win? Oh wait. That got fixed.

Here's how this is going to play out and how it's going to affect TQ.

1. There will be an increase in noobs flying shiny ships that have to actual player skill. Cry me a river. You can already see it happening in the Missions and Complexes forum. Complete noobs asking noob questions who have clearly barely even flown a mission traipsing around in Marauders.

2. Some of the bigger nullsec alliances will use the skills for recruiting and getting young players into fleet doctrines a little faster. Big whoop.

3. A few nerds will actually abuse it and do obnoxious things like max out a 4-day old character. Also not anything to worry about.

4. The vast majority of people who use skill injectors will use them to tweak a skill here or there or cut down on a really long train.

The most important thing to remember is that no matter how you get a skill, there's a cap on how much advantage it can give you. The guy who maxed everything out isn't any more effective in a Kestrel than I am. Or if he is, it's because of player skill. We tell this to noobs all the time when they whine about not being able to catch up. For any given ship/role, you absolutely can catch up to a 13-year vet.

But the number 1 biggest impact that this is going to have on TQ and the future of EvE is that it's going to put more money in CCP's pockets. CCP will be able to use this money to hire more developers, designers, artists, and other staff. CCP will be able to push bigger changes faster, find more bugs sooner, roll out new artwork faster.

If this works out as planned and CCP is able to increase the rate of iteration even a little, I am 100% in favor of that. Particularly since I am confident that if the skill injectors turn out to become abused in a widespread way, they will get nerfed.

this

I really don't see the problem

1. CCP DOESN'T sell skillpoint! They sell the possibility to sell skillpoints. Big difference. For everyone who wants to buy skillpoints there has to be someone to sell them. So if the community is unwillig to sell skillpoints there wouldn't be a business.

2. As for now I don't even own a battleship and will be very proud of my first one. And mourn when it gets blown up. That are the moments you remember and that brings the joy of playing this game. If you just buy your skillpoint you will miss these moments, the victory to have achieved a goal. So the game will get boring very fast. Do you really think that this guy who spent 28.000$ to max out a char will play eve for long?

3. I would bet 1M (don't have a lot of money, saving up for above mentioned battleship ) against a lousy heap of carb that most injectors will be used inside an account to booster some alt or to reskill the main.

So in the end boosting your char with bought skill injectors will have the same effect als cheating: The game will get boring and you quit quickly. And CCP made some money.

If you don't want skill injectors to be a success the community!!!! will just have to stop selling them. The "problem" is not CCP but the players. That's the way of EVE and CCP stuck to it.

not with that attitude.