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MWD Suggestion
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-02-21 04:08:47 UTC
So, we all know MWDs are used quite a bit, but I feel that the penalties for using one are almost too much.

They have:
High fitting costs
High cap usage
Increase sig
Reduce Agility
and worst of all, they reduce your cap by 10-25% just by fitting them.


My suggestion is remove the cap fitting penalty.

If there needs to be an exchange for doing so, either increase fitting costs, or increase cap usage.
I just feel the cap penalty is a bit too much when everything else is considered, and when factoring that the ONLY thing they provide is speed... Granted, it's a lot of speed, but is it worth it?

You can literally up fit an afterburner (fit 10mn instead of 1mn, or 100mn instead of 10mn) and you'll remove the sig penalty, and the cap penalty..

Point is, I don't think the cap penalty should exist.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-02-21 04:14:54 UTC
Adding a second suggestion to this.

Since MWDs are effected by warp scramblers.
And since warp scramblers can be countered by warp core stabs, wouldn't it make sense that MWDs should be effected by warp core stabs as well?

Just thinking out loud..
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2016-02-21 04:39:11 UTC
Their widespread use would suggest the penalty is not too much a drawback.

And def nope to the second post. Gotta stop ships burning back to gate.

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-02-21 04:55:45 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Their widespread use would suggest the penalty is not too much a drawback.


Well, most ships can't pull off the up fitting of an AB. if they could, they likely would do that instead.
Having said that, the fact that the MWD is effected by scram is another negative for them.

Consider this:
While an AB does give quite a bit less speed, is suffers from none of the other penalties, while the speed increase of MWD over AB isn't THAT significant especially when you get into larger ships.
Though, that is likely a case of personal opinion.

Having said that, I don't feel that the ship fitting the module should be penalized without even activating the module.
They already have less fitting capabilities with an MWD over an AB, as well as less cap, agility, etc. etc. etc..

I'm sure I could be and/or are probably wrong on this, I just feel the cap penalty makes sense.


Quote:
And def nope to the second post. Gotta stop ships burning back to gate.


Well, I can understand your point here, however, if a ship is fitting warp core stabs and you can't scram him, he's not going to be burning back on the gate anyway; He's just going to warp off.
So, the point you made here is a bit redundant, though valid.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-02-21 05:23:53 UTC
If you don't want the penalties, then fit an afterburner. If you want reduced penalties, then let's talk about reduced bonuses, too. There's a pretty huge difference between MWDs and ABs and it wouldn't hurt to have some middle ground.


But you can't have 500% velocity bonus without the penalties!

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SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-02-21 05:34:01 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


Consider this:
While an AB does give quite a bit less speed, is suffers from none of the other penalties, while the speed increase of MWD over AB isn't THAT significant especially when you get into larger ships.



The penalty for fitting an AB is getting kited to death by some poor bastard suffering through the many penalties of an MWD.

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Iain Cariaba
#7 - 2016-02-21 10:09:27 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
...while the speed increase of MWD over AB isn't THAT significant especially when you get into larger ships.

My Golem with AB: 327 m/s
My Golem with MWD: 887 m/s

My non-bumping Machariel with AB: 486 m/s
My non-bumping Machariel with MWD: 1,310 m/s

So, no, the speed increase of MWD is, in fact, fairly significant over AB.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#8 - 2016-02-21 10:39:55 UTC
The only part of the OP that I have always been confused about is that if someone fits 2 stabs, they can still warp off, but they can't turn on their MWD.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Cristl
#9 - 2016-02-21 17:42:06 UTC
A post about MWDs being *underpowered* ?!

Um, no. I'd like there to be a balance between MWD, AB or no prop. Currently I fit loads of MWDs, some ABs, the occasional dual prop, and possibly I've fit some weird stuff with no prop mod...possibly, but I can't recall them really.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#10 - 2016-02-21 18:00:24 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


Well, I can understand your point here, however, if a ship is fitting warp core stabs and you can't scram him, he's not going to be burning back on the gate anyway; He's just going to warp off.
So, the point you made here is a bit redundant, though valid.


In a 1v1 scenario...

But in a gate camp you can get several long points (or one infini-point) on a target but they can still MWD to gate or MJD out. You often have to be lucky to get a frig in scram range to prevent that from happening.

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-02-21 19:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Cristl wrote:
A post about MWDs being *underpowered* ?!

Um, no. I'd like there to be a balance between MWD, AB or no prop. Currently I fit loads of MWDs, some ABs, the occasional dual prop, and possibly I've fit some weird stuff with no prop mod...possibly, but I can't recall them really.


I'm not saying they're underpowered.

I'm stating that I'm not sure the cap penalty is a necessity.
Make them consume more cap, sure, but penalizing them when the module can't and/or isn't being used is the problem.

MWD is easily countered by a scram, yet you're still penalized despite not being able to use the module.


So, my problem isn't that they're underpowered, or over penalized; My problem is that single penalty.

Increase cap usage when active, but remove the cap fitting penalty.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2016-02-21 20:55:11 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you don't want the penalties, then fit an afterburner. If you want reduced penalties, then let's talk about reduced bonuses, too. There's a pretty huge difference between MWDs and ABs and it wouldn't hurt to have some middle ground.


But you can't have 500% velocity bonus without the penalties!


Yes you can, they are called Core / Gist X-type 500mn.

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SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-02-22 04:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Joe Risalo wrote:
Cristl wrote:
A post about MWDs being *underpowered* ?!

Um, no. I'd like there to be a balance between MWD, AB or no prop. Currently I fit loads of MWDs, some ABs, the occasional dual prop, and possibly I've fit some weird stuff with no prop mod...possibly, but I can't recall them really.


I'm not saying they're underpowered.

I'm stating that I'm not sure the cap penalty is a necessity.
Make them consume more cap, sure, but penalizing them when the module can't and/or isn't being used is the problem.

MWD is easily countered by a scram, yet you're still penalized despite not being able to use the module.


So, my problem isn't that they're underpowered, or over penalized; My problem is that single penalty.

Increase cap usage when active, but remove the cap fitting penalty.


Er... I can't think of a time when my MWD was off, yet my cap was suffering just enough that the MWD penalty would make a real difference. I mean, that's a pretty narrow window. If you're WAY overconsuming (being neuted, for instance), that bit off the top isn't going to matter much at all, and without the consumption of the MWD, usually my remaining cap usage is mild enough that I have plenty to complete whatever task.

This sounds like a PvE laser-boat thing.

I guess my Buzzard would be able to warp across Thera more easily? What?

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Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-02-24 13:31:42 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Cristl wrote:
A post about MWDs being *underpowered* ?!

Um, no. I'd like there to be a balance between MWD, AB or no prop. Currently I fit loads of MWDs, some ABs, the occasional dual prop, and possibly I've fit some weird stuff with no prop mod...possibly, but I can't recall them really.


I'm not saying they're underpowered.

I'm stating that I'm not sure the cap penalty is a necessity.
Make them consume more cap, sure, but penalizing them when the module can't and/or isn't being used is the problem.

MWD is easily countered by a scram, yet you're still penalized despite not being able to use the module.


So, my problem isn't that they're underpowered, or over penalized; My problem is that single penalty.

Increase cap usage when active, but remove the cap fitting penalty.


Well then there is a easy solution go and buy the deadspace ones, there is nearly no penalty there.

Solution found next.

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