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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

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Onamata Poeia
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#541 - 2016-02-17 14:30:11 UTC
Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug
Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.

In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.

I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?).
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#542 - 2016-02-17 14:52:02 UTC
Onamata Poeia wrote:
Just logged into the new mirror of SiSi and for some reason I cannot fathom, the orbit camera is now in a constant state of slowly zooming in toward the ship. Is this as intended or a bug
Are you even listening, CCP? This sort of thing is basically the POLAR OPPOSITE of what 90%+ of the feedback posts I've read have been asking for.

In the look at camera, we have to fight with these stupid flyby settings to get to see what we want to see. Now in the orbit camera we have to fight with the zoom, just to get the camera to stay in the same place so that we can have an idea of what's going on with our own ships. It actually is starting to beggar belief that someone thinks this is a good idea.

I'm sorry if this is coming off more as a rant than feedback, but I'm starting to get really pi**ed off at this BS. At the end of the day I'm trying to operate a viewpoint such that I can divine information about my surroundings, not record a youtube montage! Give me function first and foremost (what is so difficult to understand about my wanting a static viewpoint anchored around whatever I am looking at, be it my ship or another object anyway?).



They sold us some of this "tracking stuff" as a new feature for some weird reason. Hopefully they will remove it or make it an option because else I am limited to station trading in EvE and that´s something I won´t do. Another thing that this sisters team hopefully understood by now is, that "look at" and "tracking" are not the same thing. Make "look at" an option that you can toggle is nice but we asked for "tracking" which they removed completely. With the old camera I can track an object, zoom and keep tracking it. The new camera doesn´t allow tracking but just "look at" and when I zoom everything is getting screwed.
Was hoping to see some response by today but it seems they are not willing to respond. Hopefully that means they are actually working on changes the playerbase requested and not trying to add more fancy stuff.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#543 - 2016-02-17 17:19:24 UTC
Raamah
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#544 - 2016-02-17 19:07:44 UTC
I like the addition of tracking for the non-orbiting "orbit" camera, but it is objectively worse than the current tracking camera. I want to be able to choose tracking position, for one thing. For another, I don't want my ship constantly hovering on the left edge of the screen. I keep my d scan there!
Aivlis Eldelbar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#545 - 2016-02-17 20:00:13 UTC
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#546 - 2016-02-17 20:08:08 UTC
nikar galvren wrote:
Tippia wrote:
• …indeed, make all camera settings persistent.
Such as the position and zoom of the camera between mode changes and docking events; tactical overview settings for the respective modes; indeed any manual adjustment the player can make should be the way they left it when they come back to that view mode.


Oh, Dear God. Yes. So. Much. Yes.
Indeed.

Please CCP for the love of god, make sure this new camera works like the old BEFORE you make it the only option available.

It's not rocket science.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#547 - 2016-02-17 20:24:25 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?



Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.

Daemun of Khanid
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#548 - 2016-02-17 20:31:49 UTC
When you are looking straight up / straight down in the new camera and have the camera bobbing on the view just spins which is really disorientating. Fine I can just turn off the camera bobbing, just like I've turned off everything else in the new camera. But could you maybe just turn off this bonkers idea of removing the old camera before making the new one pleasant to use?
Aivlis Eldelbar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#549 - 2016-02-17 21:44:41 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?



Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.


It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything.
Fzhal
#550 - 2016-02-17 21:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
CCP Darwin wrote:
Fzhal wrote:
The thing that I'm most unhappy about is the lack of capability (or maybe I just couldn't find it) to control the camera friction so that the camera didn't keep spinning after I moved it and kept holding the mouse button down in one spot so that it didn't keep spinning.


Moving the "Camera Speed" slider toward "Fast" reduces the inertia of the camera.

Note that the old camera continues to rotate after you stop moving it as well. It's not 100% damped. You can, with that setting, damp the camera rotation a whole lot more than the old camera's default, so play with it to see where you like it.

I'm not on the team working on the camera, so I won't be able to answer questions about their plans for it. Just trying to help direct you to the setting that does what you want.

Thank you CCP Darwin.

CCP Team Psycho Sisters:

I have tried to do as CCP Darwin recommended, but found the feature frustratingly inadequate because I use a high mouse sensitivity setting. I have had these mouse settings for years, and I'm very adept with them. To get the desired inertial friction (at or near zero), your multiplicative camera speed setting must be set at 3.6 or above. I also noticed that your camera must have a built-in acceleration curve, which makes things even more difficult for people in my situation.

  1. Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth. I assume you do this so that someone on the 4x setting could use the camera without it being way too sensitive. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse. Once my acceleration curve kicks in, I've already exceeded your curve's max rate, which results in the camera/mouse speed movement speed jumping from around 800 DPI to four times that speed.

  2. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI (pixels per inch), which means my mouse can cross a 1920 width screen with one inch (2.5cm) of lateral movement. Let's say I want to rotate my view 180 degrees quickly (180d = 500 pixels = 1.25cm mouse move in 0.5 seconds)... Your camera code generates inertia based on mouse speed. If I have camera speed set at 3, and manage the herculean task of releasing the click at the right moment, the camera rotates about an extra 90 degrees. When I set the camera speed to 4 and try to rotate my view 180 degrees, the camera multiplier (4) x (500) pixel distance means that my mouse would equivalently have traveled to the same spot on an adjoining monitor. Sure the camera stops immediately after the button is released, but it is back to facing the same (wrong) direction after 2 revolutions, and it has also managed to achieve 240 RPMs!


For the love of science, please add a toggle or slider for camera friction.

FYI: To serious gamers, mouse settings are a sacred thing. I don't recommend you suggest that people change their mouse sensitivity to accommodate your new camera. Before doing so, I'd recommend trying to set your mouse speed to be a quarter of its current speed and see how long you last.

Sincerely,
Fzhal
Elmis
The ill-advised
Hermit Collective
#551 - 2016-02-17 22:46:44 UTC
Fzhal wrote:
... Your camera code seems to have a built-in acceleration curve (or resting inertia) to keep things looking smooth.. The problem is that this feature doesn't help me because I too have an acceleration curve to manage the high speed of my mouse.. My mouse speed is 2,000 DPI


I hadn't considered the relationship between mouse speed and the new camera.

I use 2 x 4K monitors - with a combined resolution of 7,680 x 2160.

I run my EVE client in a window of 3,000 x 1800.

My mouse runs at 3,500 CPI. This allows me to cover the full screen real-estate from one side to the other moving the mouse less than 2 physical inches. (I don't have to lift my wrist or move my hand much.) The mouse has an acceleration curve of its own - so I can move slowly / make fine adjustments to position, or a little faster to have it shoot across the screen.

Is this why I haven't been able to find a setting with the new camera that feels half decent? Note - I have no issue at all with the old camera.
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#552 - 2016-02-17 23:05:08 UTC
I cannot play with this new camera, I get so awfully nauseous that it is impossible to play!

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
Chrome Veinss
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#553 - 2016-02-17 23:54:55 UTC
The autotracking toggle addition was great but tracking things is still really messed up compared with tracking in the old camera. I dont want the camera to reposition and sloppily slingshot the view of my ship in a random direction out of view or behind UI elements every single time i track something. Just bring back the center tracking position on your ship and you will almost have an usable camera, the rest is bug fixes and polish

Also the horizontal vs vertical ratio feels very restricting. We play this game in 3d, we need to be able to move the camera vertically and horizontally the same way. Its not a gamebreaker for me but if you keep it you will have made your game objectivelly worse
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#554 - 2016-02-18 00:01:46 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?



Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.


It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything.

Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned.

Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#555 - 2016-02-18 00:08:39 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?



Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.


It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything.

Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned.

Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game.

As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#556 - 2016-02-18 01:53:43 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I have my D-Scan bound to a mouse button, and when I hit it it goes into a "Click on target" mode. I really don't want it to do this as I just need a refresh of the scan list, and while it's in this mode I can't interact with my UI. Any tips?



Had a similar issue w the key programmed to my g13. Has to do with how the client recieves the key signal. Make sure its not set to repeat the command when held. Depending on how programmable your device is you might try inserting small delays between press and release.


It's not programmed (as in, it's not a macro keyed to a button press), and it worked fine before the camera came out of beta. I'll see if actually making it into a macro of [Keypress + 0.1 sec delay] will do anything.

Careful - Use of macros is against the EULA. It could see you getting banned.

Interesting though, CCP is making it so difficult for the average player they feel the need to resort to Macros just to b able to play the game.

As far as I understand it the rule is 1 input = 1 command. So adjusting the press and release timings of a button shouldn't be against the rules because it's still pressing 1 button to give a 1 button command.

Using the macro is against the EULA.
Not how it is used or why.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#557 - 2016-02-18 02:02:53 UTC
Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll?

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#558 - 2016-02-18 02:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Lfod Shi wrote:
Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll?

That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#559 - 2016-02-18 02:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lfod Shi
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lfod Shi wrote:
Old cam ratted and salvaged for a solid 60 minutes no problemo. My first thought was, "Thank God the stars aren't moving". So... yeah. I think whatever the new cam is doing to the star field is what's making everyone's tummy roll?

That's the Dynamic Field of View option. I don't know about everyone else, but disabling that helped me quite a lot, but not completely. I'm convinced the sluggishness of the camera movements is part of it too.


Unfortunately, disabling that didn't help me at all. Only thing that works for me is the old cam.

edit: Hadn't thought of the sluggish camera being part of the problem, but I wouldn't count it out. Things just ain't moving right.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#560 - 2016-02-18 02:32:19 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:




Programming keyboard shortcuts to input devices while technically considered a macro is not against eula. Whats against eula is programming a set of muliple actions to take place with a single press which creates an advantage. Its been confirmed a gazillion times so dont spout paranoid bologna. Blink

Daemun of Khanid