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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

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Harsa Tosh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2016-02-11 18:15:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Manic Velocity wrote:
According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera".

Holy ****. I didn't even see that.

CCP, listen very carefully now:

You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No “kind of the same, but…”, and definitely no “it's better now because…”.

It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now.

If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an “awesome” idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again.

Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you? Shocked

+1
Zapp McDouche
Black Spot on Parchment
#202 - 2016-02-11 18:21:55 UTC
ok the wobbly camera seems to be only apearing when im in bastion mode and have orbit camera on. when going tactical camera its more normal sort off.
The camera feels still sluggish when i orbit it around my ship and the point of attention of the camera feels sometimes off when zoomed out,
Cant you make it so its back to the old attention point when zoomed out?
hipotecadoydesgraciado
Incursion Omega
#203 - 2016-02-11 18:33:03 UTC
We cant see the PEW PEW effect ,even mining with lasers
Ecrir Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2016-02-11 18:35:36 UTC
Bienator II wrote:

lasso select:
this needs some more tweaks too i believe. Because otherwise you will literally lock EVERYTHING in the rectangle area. Wrecks, drones, LCOs, that little citadel in the background, everything. I don't have a solution for that but it has to be somehow a bit smarter or configurable. So that you can limit it for selecting only ships for example. Or only drones, or only wrecks. (hotkey for ships only selection? if there are no ships it falls back to "everything" selection?)


thats it for now


I like this idea!
Ecrir Twy'Lar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2016-02-11 18:42:58 UTC
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Good to see that tracking objects entering warp is being given back to us. They are apparently listening at least a little. Blink

Now if we can get back toggled tracking camera functionality like we had before and they will either give the option to or just completely remove all of the camera inertia things will start to look up.

All this begs the question though, since all of the new "features" they are shoving down our throats just happen to be ALL the things we want turned off, wouldn't it have been a better idea to just stealthily re-code the camera so that it by default still behaves like the old one (while adding their silly first person and tactical views) and just made all the visual effect's (speed offset, inertia, dynamic FOV, etc) options that we can turn ON if we want to check them out?


A thousand times this! The old camera worked just fine. When I think of the average Eve player, I think of someone who likes simplicity and efficiency. The only part of the new camera that seems to offer this imo is the marquee function. I love the idea of being able to drag a box in space and selecting/targeting everything within that box. However, that one function isn't worth giving up the old camera.
Iain Cariaba
#206 - 2016-02-11 18:51:36 UTC
I usually don't post in feedback threads. I've learned over the years that CCP is generally going to do whatever they want regardless of what feedback they get.

For the new camera, however, I am forced to make an exception.

I am unable to provide any feedback for features, or lack thereof, because the new camera system makes the game physically unplayable to me. I was able to play using the new camera for less than 10 minutes before I had to turn the new camera off, exit the game, and go lay down while the nausea subsided.

I'm not against the new cameras, all I'm asking is that CCP reconsider the removal of the old camera. After a decade of playing, I don't want to have to add EvE to the list of games I'm unable to play because the camera makes me physically ill.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#207 - 2016-02-11 19:12:43 UTC
Do not remove the use old camera feature.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#208 - 2016-02-11 19:20:45 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
I agree. But unless they get rid of that drifty, squishy inertia garbage and give back toggled tracking there are gonna be a lot of angry subscribers when it happens.

I disagree. This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game.

Camera controls are one of the hardest things to get right in a video game. I remember, growing up, reading reviews of a lot of games that might have been great but wonky or unstable camera controls tanked them. EvE has had a perfect camera up until now. If this game takes three steps back by implementing this new camera as a mandatory "feature", I might just unsub for a while until they fix it. I'd happily return when they stop gratuitously nerfing the interface. I'm not quite at that point, but I'm real close now.


You do understand that what I was agreeing with was that most ppl don't realize that CCP plan on removing the old camera completely right? So... I'm not sure what it is you disagree with. Its pretty apparent we, along with most everyone else in this thread, agree that the new cam basically sucks.

Daemun of Khanid
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#209 - 2016-02-11 19:39:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
• Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.

That leaves…

• Keeping the ship centred.
• Adjusting the tracking point.
• Tracking toggle.
• Look toggle.
• No camera movement without input while looking.
• Linear zoom.
• Linear (and equal on every axis) orbiting speed.
• Instant reset
• RClick-slewing with snap-back
• Manual R+L-Drag zoom and FOV adjustment
• Tactical overlay setting persistence

…just off the top of my head and testing around a station. I'm sure others can expand on it. When will that functionality be added?


I full support these changes and thank you for laying them out so it's clear what other issues we have. We should make just keep a running list like this with all the issues that still need to be addressed.
DJB16
DJB Alpha
#210 - 2016-02-11 20:35:01 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone!

• Atmospheric noises in Tactical and First Person cameras are too loud
We are tweaking these today.

Fly safe
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters



dont just tweek the damn thing

GIVE US THE OPTION TO TURN THEM OFF TOTALY
Sola Atruin
Mutant Space Kittens
#211 - 2016-02-11 20:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sola Atruin
Quote:
Hello again,

Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at today’s downtime:

• Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode.
• Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships.
• Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping.
• Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked.
• Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.


Thank Bob, a glimpse of hope!

Tried these changes today, better, but still not as good as the old cam. As said before, a toggle for tracking would be another step in the right direction. Pressing C all the time is just annoying. And the reintroduction of a custom tracking position would be nice as well.

Right now, I would still prefer the old cam as a option staying in game instead of the new one. Wasn't a problem with probe scanner, d-scan and map, why would it be a problem now?

Best regards,

Sola Atruin
Dantesi Cadelanne
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#212 - 2016-02-11 20:48:47 UTC
Of the many points in this thread, the tracking camera is most critical.

Please for the love of what ever gods you pray to, implement the traditional tracking in the new iteration.

Secondly, in tactical mode, give us the option to unlock the camera with an additional key combo. With the way the detachment works currently, it is way too clunky and nonfunctional in the way most situations would call for it.

Lastly, implement the traditional tracking camera.

You fixed what wasn't broken. This has some promise, and amazing promise at that. But it is still A LONG WAY from being usable. Take it back to the drawing board, let us keep our legacy camera until you listen to your player base.

Links to current poll related to the Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online http://imgur.com/xUd2UJb (Initial Poll Data) https://twitter.com/EVE_Dantesi/status/697896708810735617 Poll Link

02/11/2016
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#213 - 2016-02-11 21:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Khan Wrenth wrote:
This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game..



Have to agree here. The last UI few updates have all been about removing player choice and adding more and more ui onto the interface.

- new more intruisive icons..
- additional buttons for new cameras
- additions to the selected item window
- neut, scram, transfer effects now in centre + overview window
- additions to the radial menu
- soon to be coming additions notifications when people warp off grid and ships are destroyed.

CCP SOON WE SEE NO SPACE or SHIPS ONLY UI !

(dont really know why the art guys bother.. everything is hidden by icons anyway..)


but yet your market your game showing no UI !! .... oh the irony. Roll

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#214 - 2016-02-11 23:11:01 UTC
I thought I was irate and angry about these camera changes. Some of you guys/girls make me feel like a zen monk. Big smile

Keep it up though, I'm all for anything that gets the point across and the more ppl that are genuinely upset about this camera the more likely CCP will take notice and put a little more thought into this before making it mandatory.

Daemun of Khanid
Ash Rand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2016-02-11 23:25:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Manic Velocity wrote:
According to the devblog, by this time next month you won't have a choice between the two. It will no longer be "the new camera", it will just be "the camera".

Holy ****. I didn't even see that.

CCP, listen very carefully now:

You CANNOT remove the option for the old, working camera without having fully and completely recreated every last aspect of it in your new system. All of it. No exception. No “kind of the same, but…”, and definitely no “it's better now because…”.

It must have every singe option and functionality that the old camera has: the direct and precise movement; the simple look-at and tracking functionality; the ability to track warps; the ability to simply rclick-unhook the camera from its current direction and then have it immediately snap back; always focusing on your ship etc etc etc. All the things people have been telling you for ages now.

If you remove it, there are no two ways about it and no delicate way of saying it: you are stupid. You are incompetent. You are not actually listening to the wave of feedback you're getting, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is a lie. Stop it. Step back, swallow your pride, stop blubbering, and give your customers the one thing they're asking for: a properly working camera. Remember what happens every time you have an “awesome” idea that doesn't work in practice, and realise that this is one of those moments. Again.

Jesus ******* christ. Why does this keep happening?! How are you so incapable of learning such a ridiculously simple lesson?! WTF is wrong with you? Shocked



+1
Mutiny Within
Intergalactic Restored Gravitational Aided Yields
#216 - 2016-02-11 23:30:34 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
I usually don't post in feedback threads. I've learned over the years that CCP is generally going to do whatever they want regardless of what feedback they get.

For the new camera, however, I am forced to make an exception.

I am unable to provide any feedback for features, or lack thereof, because the new camera system makes the game physically unplayable to me. I was able to play using the new camera for less than 10 minutes before I had to turn the new camera off, exit the game, and go lay down while the nausea subsided.

I'm not against the new cameras, all I'm asking is that CCP reconsider the removal of the old camera. After a decade of playing, I don't want to have to add EvE to the list of games I'm unable to play because the camera makes me physically ill.


This times a million. Please for the love of New Eden, DO not remove the option to have the "classic" camera. More options are good, and the code is unbroken, so no new work involved in simply letting it be.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#217 - 2016-02-11 23:43:04 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
This is EvE, "Everyone Verses Everyone", not "Everyone Verses the Developers". When it gets to that point, I'm out. I pay a monthly subscription fee to fight NPCs and players, not to fight the interface. The Devs still haven't fixed the interface from the color palette nerf, and combined with a camera nerf, it might be enough to make me leave the game..



Have to agree here. The last UI few updates have all been about removing player choice and adding more and more ui onto the interface.

- new more intruisive icons..
- additional buttons for new cameras
- additions to the selected item window
- neut, scram, transfer effects now in centre + overview window
- additions to the radial menu
- soon to be coming additions notifications when people warp off grid and ships are destroyed.

CCP SOON WE SEE NO SPACE or SHIPS ONLY UI !

(dont really know why the art guys bother.. everything is hidden by icons anyway..)


but yet your market your game showing no UI !! .... oh the irony. Roll


Back during Icongate, CCP Devs finally asked why some use the 90% setting, as their programming to smoosh and stretch was (by their own admission) seriously lacking.

Many that use 90% and responded stated that it was for more space on the screen. Space for what? SPACE. Outer space, where all the nifty graphics are doing their little pixel dances. Why need more space? 'Cuz the different segments of the UI are Nomming All The Space.

I get the running joke, Spreadsheets in Space. Should it be changed to, UI Challenge Online? Find what your ship looks like undocked behind all the buttons, rotaries, overviews, tabbed windows, and clickys for all those new camera options?

I didn't come to Eve Online to play Where's My Skiff on the monitor. And I didn't start this with a yearning for motion sickness. Please, for the care of your own employment when subscription numbers start to tumble if you follow through on all statements in the New Camera Blog, Leave the 'Legacy/Classic' Camera as a Working Option. Do not remove it.

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#218 - 2016-02-12 00:05:32 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello again,

Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at today’s downtime:

• Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode.
• Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships.
• Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping.
• Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked.
• Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.

Fly dangerously,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters

Hey Turtlebutt, thank you for all the updates!

I think it would be also awesome if

• The tracking camera would work like in the old camera (pressing C then the camera tracks automatically after a click)
• POV being saved between jumps if it was changed by the player
• Adding a POV bar into the settings for permanent POV change
• Adding ability to look around in standard orbit camera mode by holding right button and dragging your mouse

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Catherda
James Meeks Corporation LLC
#219 - 2016-02-12 00:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherda
Caroline Grace wrote:


Hey Turtlebutt


That really made me laugh - nice one Lol

Not sure if CCP Turtlepower would agree though...
SoulLess Zealot
Khaedra's Law
#220 - 2016-02-12 01:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: SoulLess Zealot
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello again,

Just a quick update from us. We have released the following fixes and tweaks at today’s downtime:

• Fixed an issue where players could get stuck in the space scene when docked, after using first person mode.
• Fixed turrets not being visible on other ships.
• Fixed an issue that could cause a strange "fishbowl" FOV after jumping.
• Anomalies and bookmarks can now be tracked.
• Tracking of ships that are warping away is now maintained until the tracked ship leaves the grid (yay!). However, ships that have already initiated a warp command still cannot be tracked by other players; we will fix this ASAP.

Fly dangerously,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters


this is good but i think a larger issue is not being able to toggle it on or off . i have tried to do so under the navigation shortcut tab with the toggle point camera to selected item key bind ; either this dose something else or is not working.

to be fare i do see the cinematic value of this new camera it will make the game look more vibrant and alive. and when you weigh this with you tube videos or twitch streams it will make the game more appealing. i applaud the progressive strategies being taken to keep eve alive and to grow the subbed member base, im on board. I love this game. however i dont like this brow beating you do to your subscription base to get forced play testing to push your agendas. That is not cool. i pay 3 times over btw to play this game. you need to do the correct research of what players would like to see and pay for. You need to make sure its right. my job is to be happy and pay you money , lets get our roles strait Blink