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I do my best to think of things complexly, so have been trying to think of things from the other point of view, and this is what I have come up with.

As was stated before, when new ships with new capabilities are introduced, those ships generally come with new skills. The time that SP has been split is basically when little if anything new was added, but the skill was split for clarification.

Regardless of if the FAX will be a "new ship" or if it is just a "piece" of what we now know of as carriers, the carriers themselves are going to be totally new. However you slice it, you are gaining new capabilities, and CCP is allowing you to pretrain now so you have them both if you so choose, but the bottom line is there will be an additional ship class, and an additional role, even if that role is going to carriers.

Furthermore, this stands as the best time in history for a high SP pilot to bank a _ton_ of unallocated SP. The change in skill extractors didn't only make SP monetarily valuable, but made unallocated SP more normal. Whereas before handing you 2+ months of unallocated SP would have been considered too powerful, now it isn't so bad.

My plan is to sink the next 2 months into as efficient of carrier training as I possibly can, and buy the FAX skills to compensate. Then I will have the free SP to do _whatever_ I want come Citadels.

tl;dr It isn't the same as before, but in some ways it is better.

The entire carrier game is changing as far as it looks.

You could abstract it far enough and say "you do damage and rep things, what new thing are they adding" if you wish, or you can see it as an unique opportunity to gain a ton of unallocated SP without having to pay diminishing returns.

What on earth are you talking about?!? Thats the dumbest post in the thread yet. Why would i want a bunch of unallocated SP?!?

Everything needs training, doesnt matter where the SP comes from.

I actually want to be able to fly combat carriers and logistics carriers ASAP. Probably at least 2 races. I can do that now, it didnt happen by accident.

The problem is that both carriers could happily function under the same skill using support skills like a new drone control siege mod for combat duties and the triage module for RR duty.

There is always a reason CCP chooses an extremely convoluted path. Usually its to do with mechanics that they dont want people abusing, like jump fatigue, or the new null sov.

In this case, there was a simple, perfectly reasonable, abuse free solution, that did not involve giving away free SP and did not involve alienating customers by forcing months of training on them. This choice is even in line with how other T1 ship skills work for other classes.

But they chose a very convoluted route, to encourage the use of SP injectors.

Listen dude, i can make a billion isk in 3 hours. Perhaps you need to sell SP to make isk, but the rest of us use SP to fly space submarines.

My solution did not involve free SP or reimbursed SP.

It is by far the simplest option they could have chosen and follows a model already in place for frigate and cruiser DPS/Logi. They could have just released the new cap and rejigged the stats on the existing caps and job done. All based on the current carrier skill. No one is further ahead or behind where they were before. Everyone is happy that slow cats are dead.

TBH, im more against free SP than what they did because i think creating SP hills for only newer players to climb is bad for the game.

But in the same respect, creating an SP hill for EVERYONE to climb even though many were already over that hill is absurd.

This leads to speculation about the justification for such changes, which in this case is a clear cash grab.

And your irreverent point about just having to accept CCPs current trend in decision making, if this was a CCP blog i would accept that. But this is a forum, so we are allowed to discuss and decide if we aret going to personally tolerate changes in CCPs decision making style.

I am not sure what you mean capitalize on what? I wanted to be able to rep people with a capital ship. So I trained a level 14 skill which only benefits a single ship. Now they are taking away that role of that single ship I trained and replacing it with who knows what.

Now they say I can reassign those points, but only if I train another skill, Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration, which has a prereq or logistics cruisers 5 that I have not trained. Why do I have to do this? Isn't my time spent training carriers wasted just as much whether I train this other skill now or not?

Now if I don't want all those carrier points to go to waste I need to train this other long skill group before citadel hits - whenever that is. If I don't, that level 14 skill goes to waste.

Now maybe it wont go to waste because carriers will be awesome. But really its not looking to good for that. Carriers are now going to start doing more damage. Will they do more damage than dreads which are a capital designed to do damage? Probably not. They will probably do less. And honestly it looks like ccp is going to nerf all the dreads and carriers so that they will be equivalent to the current ships only if you fit expensive capital modules to them.

CCP should just accept that they are massively changing the game where allot of players have invested allot of money and time and try to be accommodating. They said they would take these concerns into account when they announced the cap changes at eve vegas. This solution is not really cutting it. They should dig deeper and come up with something that is more fair to players.

I dont think anyone disputes that. Question is why? I dont think its because they thought 25 years of total skills to train was insufficient. The answer is to peddle SP injectors.

Is that acceptable?
If we accept it now will that kind of behavior occur elsewhere?
Whats to stop CCP doing this to all ship roles?



Adding a new cap did not need to be any more complicated than adding a new destroyer was. There was no need for progression, and there still is no progression. The new cap is essentially parallel to the old one skill wise.

CCPs previous decisions have been all over the chart. Fact is that they could have avoided all these difficulties if they didnt have AUR to sell.

Caps may or may not have followed any kind of progression in the past, but that that baseless assertion doesnt justify, or in itself represent a good reason why a new skill was needed since they are just separating 2 roles that used to be accomplished by a single class of ship. There is no mechanical benefit, there is no lore benefit, there is no gameplay benefit, there is only an incentive for people to recoup their SP losses with AUR items.

I wonder why its the 2 guys with almost zero combat history that dont mind this change. Interesting.

Because CCP wants cash for aurum so you buy skill injectors all the time. Duhh

Well, the timing is perfect in that regard, so this line of reasoning probably plays a role. But it does make sense to split it up, even beyond pushing SP trading in our faces. They explained it rather well: Carriers are real multitalents - they can deal damage through fighters, they can repair, they can boost, they have a refitting service and a ship hangar. Therefore it's by far the superior choice for most people for their "first capital" over Dreadnoughts. It makes a lot more sense to have another class just for the support roles so every capital is a decent choice as first venture into the world of capital ships.

But then, it doesn't make much sense to have two completely different classes covered by the same skill. Now we have:

Racial Dreadnought + Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration for in your face DPS
Racial Carrier + Fighters for variable long range DPS and anti-support
Racial FAX + Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration for logistics

Its neat and tidy and makes a lot of sense.



Even if it weren't acceptable - what can we do, really? CCP have shown that they don't give a flying **** about their players opinions anymore. The only way to show them that something is not acceptable is to leave the game. But if we do that, why would we care what CCP does in the future?

So, it's either staying with the game if we still enjoy it, or quitting the game if we don't.

Pretty much. - could close the thread with that post.