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[March] Heavy Stasis Grapplers

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Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2016-02-07 21:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
I love the idea of the Heavy Grappler, but my initial impression is that the optimal range sounds ever so slightly short of making it a solid module. How do you feel about three kilometers optimal?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2016-02-07 21:08:32 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
So overheated t2 version at 10km have (assuming linear change in power) around 60% web power.

So basically You want to stay at >10km and its weaker web and only when he is overheating. After few cycles he will have to turn off overheating and web power falls to little over 40%


Incorrect, heat doesn't add strength it adds range which will kind of do what you describe, just not with as much shift in power as you seem to think, however at 10km its strength should be just under 50% but with a two second cycle time and the ability to get stronger as you get closer.

So say you get an overheated scram on a guy and throw your deep in fall off grappler on him you can now begin to approach him and as you get closer he'll get webbed harder and harder. In the mean time its got a 2 second cycle time so if you're good at mod management you can probably cycle between targets slowing frigates in scram range for your drones to get on and cycling back onto the primary without him really ever noticing he was unwebbed.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Bilbert lashlily
Toad Whipper's United
#43 - 2016-02-07 21:08:49 UTC
+!
Finally a module to slow the cancer meta down
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2016-02-07 21:09:22 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.


a battleship should be able to solo a frigate, your dumb for thinking it shouldn't
Valarian Dumonte
Tactical Grace.
Vanguard.
#45 - 2016-02-07 21:10:23 UTC
Personally I think this module is useless. Not a lot of solo battleship pvp going on these days and im not going to waste a slot on my carrier.

The only ship i could see myself maybe putting this on is my Blops since you drop in at close range.

Guess we'll see, i just may not be able to see the point yet.
Dog0fWaRR
Oblivion Watch
HYDRA RELOADED
#46 - 2016-02-07 21:11:47 UTC
Fozzie making a good change WTF ?1!?!?!?!?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2016-02-07 21:11:55 UTC
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.



And you should feel dumb for supporting this mod, the **** are you going to web at 1km and think you can kill it? Are you so blind by your drunken mind, that you can't see this is a huge friggin waste of time? I mean you alliance flys supers/caps no? when the **** are you dropping them at 1km from anything?


Ok brain trust, leme help you here, the web works out farther than 1km, you understand that right, it works out past the range of even current webs because if it functions like our guns it will effectively web a target at opitmal + 2x falloff which means t2 webs that can begin to slow a target at nearly 20km, considerably weak at that range but still functional.

On top of that, lots of things come that close to our supers, like say hictors and dictors, Armor hacs constantly close on BS because they know the BS have problems tracking their low sig at close range.

Also we always drop supers on things at close range, glad you seem to have a firm grasp on eve mechanics.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#48 - 2016-02-07 21:12:17 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
range is too low...

fed navy web without bonuses is 60% at 14km / 18km.

the meta 17 one listed here has 45% at 15.5 km...

they need an extra 5km optimal before falloff


The low range is the entire point. High strength, low range.

Normal web: High range, low strength.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2016-02-07 21:12:40 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.


a battleship should be able to solo a frigate, your dumb for thinking it shouldn't


Nah, sorry, each ship should have a counter and the counter to a frigate inst a BS.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-02-07 21:12:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We currently plan on converting existing officer webifiers into the officer versions of these new modules.[/code]


Ugh
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#51 - 2016-02-07 21:12:45 UTC
BS buff with a 200 PG requirement? This is more like a nerf since you have to massively compromise tank or offensive capabilities.

I also do not see how that would help against Svipuls. They can just stay further away than 10 km with their Arties and still outrack your BS' guns. All in all, quite useless module.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-02-07 21:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Grath Telkin wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
So overheated t2 version at 10km have (assuming linear change in power) around 60% web power.

So basically You want to stay at >10km and its weaker web and only when he is overheating. After few cycles he will have to turn off overheating and web power falls to little over 40%


Incorrect, heat doesn't add strength it adds range which will kind of do what you describe, just not with as much shift in power as you seem to think, however at 10km its strength should be just under 50% but with a two second cycle time and the ability to get stronger as you get closer.

So say you get an overheated scram on a guy and throw your deep in fall off grappler on him you can now begin to approach him and as you get closer he'll get webbed harder and harder. In the mean time its got a 2 second cycle time so if you're good at mod management you can probably cycle between targets slowing frigates in scram range for your drones to get on and cycling back onto the primary without him really ever noticing he was unwebbed.



at 4km (overheated) You have full 85% streanght. At +10 falloff you get 42,5%

So at 10km while overheated you have around 60% (maybe little less - at 9 you have 63,75%) but once OH ends You get much farther into falloff teritory so it drops to 45%-ish territory.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2016-02-07 21:15:28 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
So overheated t2 version at 10km have (assuming linear change in power) around 60% web power.

So basically You want to stay at >10km and its weaker web and only when he is overheating. After few cycles he will have to turn off overheating and web power falls to little over 40%


Incorrect, heat doesn't add strength it adds range which will kind of do what you describe, just not with as much shift in power as you seem to think, however at 10km its strength should be just under 50% but with a two second cycle time and the ability to get stronger as you get closer.

So say you get an overheated scram on a guy and throw your deep in fall off grappler on him you can now begin to approach him and as you get closer he'll get webbed harder and harder. In the mean time its got a 2 second cycle time so if you're good at mod management you can probably cycle between targets slowing frigates in scram range for your drones to get on and cycling back onto the primary without him really ever noticing he was unwebbed.



at 4km (overheated) You have full 85% streanght. At +10 falloff you get 42,5%

So at 10km while overheated you have around 60% (maybe little less - at 9 you have 63,75%)) but once OH ends You get much farther into falloff teritory so it drops to 45%-ish


That is exactly what i said, thanks for putting it in shorter words

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
raknor bile
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#54 - 2016-02-07 21:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: raknor bile
So why is this needed? why is the current scram/web/neut/drones not effective at killing small ships and larger ships just dont kite away if scram webbed anyway.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-02-07 21:16:27 UTC
How will this work in conjunction with Vindi bonuses? I assume that it will still be stronger than normal, but I assume that it isn't going to go all the way up to 100% strength
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#56 - 2016-02-07 21:16:40 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.


a battleship should be able to solo a frigate, your dumb for thinking it shouldn't


Nah, sorry, each ship should have a counter and the counter to a frigate inst a BS.


you honestly believe a BS shouldn't be able to solo a frigate? wtf are you smoking
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#57 - 2016-02-07 21:16:46 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
BS buff with a 200 PG requirement? This is more like a nerf since you have to massively compromise tank or offensive capabilities.

I also do not see how that would help against Svipuls. They can just stay further away than 10 km with their Arties and still outrack your BS' guns. All in all, quite useless module.


I don't think so. Some battleships have problems with CPU, others with PG. So it balances out. Some ships can fit the new modules pretty damn easily (like the Scorpion or the Typhoon) others demand a little bit of sacrifice.

But on the other hand, 85% webs.

I'm already sharpening the knifes for the sacrifices. Pirate
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-02-07 21:17:10 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
So overheated t2 version at 10km have (assuming linear change in power) around 60% web power.

So basically You want to stay at >10km and its weaker web and only when he is overheating. After few cycles he will have to turn off overheating and web power falls to little over 40%


Incorrect, heat doesn't add strength it adds range which will kind of do what you describe, just not with as much shift in power as you seem to think, however at 10km its strength should be just under 50% but with a two second cycle time and the ability to get stronger as you get closer.

So say you get an overheated scram on a guy and throw your deep in fall off grappler on him you can now begin to approach him and as you get closer he'll get webbed harder and harder. In the mean time its got a 2 second cycle time so if you're good at mod management you can probably cycle between targets slowing frigates in scram range for your drones to get on and cycling back onto the primary without him really ever noticing he was unwebbed.



at 4km (overheated) You have full 85% streanght. At +10 falloff you get 42,5%

So at 10km while overheated you have around 60% (maybe little less - at 9 you have 63,75%)) but once OH ends You get much farther into falloff teritory so it drops to 45%-ish


That is exactly what i said, thanks for putting it in shorter words


You started Your sentence claiming I was incorrect, so thanks for confirming I was right from the start.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Alysha Saronn
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2016-02-07 21:17:23 UTC
This mod is going to be as useful as auto targeting missiles lol

We are Legion
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#60 - 2016-02-07 21:17:52 UTC
these look like the exact opposite of what you guys should be doing