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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1641 - 2016-01-29 03:25:29 UTC
yeah but higher SP players are supposed to need it less. and it *is* a consistent system.

mike I know there's no way you do this in person. Then no one would talk to you.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1642 - 2016-01-29 03:33:41 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
yeah but higher SP players are supposed to need it less. and it *is* a consistent system.

mike I know there's no way you do this in person. Then no one would talk to you.


True, at times my literal side ticks people off. It harks back to the argument that afk cloakers are not a problem because they are afk.

Yes, the ability to switch and turn on a dime, skill wise will be a very very powerful tool.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Memphis Baas
#1643 - 2016-01-29 03:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
It's only a powerful tool if used intelligently, much like officer modules.

Idiot afk cloakers are not a problem; and afk cloakers using predictable ships and tactics are somewhat easy to counter.

Similarly, it kinda depends on what skill you're activating "on a dime" and how you use it to surprise your enemies. Who will then keep track of your new ability and not be surprised a second time.

I expect most people won't try to be sneaky, and will use the system simply to take to 5 some of the skills that they currently have at 4, because they haven't had enough years available to train them to 5 yet, but they want to. So yeah, maybe there will be a few surprise T2 siege modules when they could only fit T1 before, and maybe a few extra km on the ECM, web, or disruptor range of a few T2 cruisers, but otherwise extra 5% bonus from skills would hardly be a great surprise.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#1644 - 2016-01-29 03:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
Mike Azariah wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
I recall a long time ago a Dev said the most (or one of the most) OP things in the game is unallocated SP.


I think I know what he meant but it is incorrect in essence. Unallocated is unused. It is like a fat isk wallet. If you do not spend it then it has no effect upon the game.

m


I just hope that there's a failsafe in place to prevent mass unpenalized injections that sit unallocated in the reserved bank. Stressed enough to say it twice.

I'll wait to see what the set price is set as. High enough to prevent the sp farming, I hope. ::edit:: At least minimize it.::edit::
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1645 - 2016-01-29 04:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Oreb Wing wrote:
I just hope that there's a failsafe in place to prevent mass unpenalized injections that sit unallocated in the reserved bank.
It was confirmed in the test server thread that both allocated and unallocated SP was counted when determining how much SP an injector gave.

On a related note, CS V is going to be in the queue for the last character I have that lacks it as soon as I'm back in front of my home PC.
Dynamus Deckerman
Doomheim
#1646 - 2016-01-29 04:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dynamus Deckerman
Scotsman Howard wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
Cixi wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
[quote=HeXxploiT]So whatever Dev it was at the end of the 07 show was talking about how he was curious to see how much injectors would go for in game.
This is a deliberately misleading comment because CCP so obviously sets the price. These are not ship skins these are a high demand item therefor they will reach their plex/$$ equivalent.

If CCP sells them for $2.50 they will be 150mil on market, $5 they will be about 300mil, $10 they will be 600mil on market and if they sell for the same price as a plex they will be the same price as a plex in game.


No you're missing the point Smile I am curious to see how players will value the skilloint part of the injector, as you say we know the extractor prices. The injector prices are thus floored at extractor prices, but on top of that comes the unknown added isk value for the skillpoints themselves. THAT is the interesting thing to watch for when this goes live.


Well the maximum price for SP will be 0.25, if the composite price for injector is more than that, people will start SP farms, it will most likely be less than that, at least at first


Yeah we can already see from the character bazaar that people are willing to sell SPs below training cost. The upper limit depends a bit on supply and demand, but as you say, if the conditions are favorable, players will turn to SP farming.

So CCP condones SP farming as another lucrative isk faucet?? Sweet, I'll never have to pay another cent out of my pockets to play this game ever again.Big smile

How about CCP add a skill a player can just automatically train to transfer SP directly to the injector so that you don't need the extractors. That will be the sweetest deal :D.


You belief that this is an isk faucet makes me laugh at your misunderstanding of what an isk faucet is.

For the billionth time, an isk faucet is an activity that creates isk out of thin air. Examples of this are bounty and insurance payouts.

This is not an isk faucet because no new isk is created.

Oh umm then this is a bad idea xD.
-1
Cixi
#1647 - 2016-01-29 05:53:43 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Oreb Wing wrote:
I just hope that there's a failsafe in place to prevent mass unpenalized injections that sit unallocated in the reserved bank.
It was confirmed in the test server thread that both allocated and unallocated SP was counted when determining how much SP an injector gave.

On a related note, CS V is going to be in the queue for the last character I have that lacks it as soon as I'm back in front of my home PC.


What is funny is that if you have more than 5mil SP unallocated then you can 0 out all your skills Big smile (not sure if this is a bug)
The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#1648 - 2016-01-29 06:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: The Receptionist
Ignore dis post
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1649 - 2016-01-29 07:10:48 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Here's another question, if I can buy skillpoints via the market, are you going to make a new subscription option that doesn't allow skill training but costs less?

Why expand in one direction but not the other? I should be able to play the game without having to train my character for a lower price.
You already will be able to do just that!

It's an interesting consequence of the new system, that apparently not many people have realized so far:

1. Get 1-month sub with your own money (cash or PLEX)
2. Gain SP, even though you do not want it for yourself
3. Sell all of that SP, get ISK
4. Use ISK to puy PLEX (you may or may not have to add some of your own ISK to get a full PLEX out of 1 month SP, depending on market prices; still it's highly probable that 1 month SP will allow you to fund at least 80-90% of a PLEX)
5. Play for free, or at least play 'at a discount'

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#1650 - 2016-01-29 11:47:48 UTC
Personally, I am curious about how players will value SP as well. Personally I hope an empty injector is dirt cheap, so that it's very easy to clean up SP on your own characters and fix SP you wasted early on when you didn't know better on skills that you never use.

However I hope that a full injector is super expensive as valued by player market, so that it's much more expensive to use these to build character up from scratch.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#1651 - 2016-01-29 12:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Here's another question, if I can buy skillpoints via the market, are you going to make a new subscription option that doesn't allow skill training but costs less?

Why expand in one direction but not the other? I should be able to play the game without having to train my character for a lower price.
You already will be able to do just that!

It's an interesting consequence of the new system, that apparently not many people have realized so far:

1. Get 1-month sub with your own money (cash or PLEX)
2. Gain SP, even though you do not want it for yourself
3. Sell all of that SP, get ISK
4. Use ISK to puy PLEX (you may or may not have to add some of your own ISK to get a full PLEX out of 1 month SP, depending on market prices; still it's highly probable that 1 month SP will allow you to fund at least 80-90% of a PLEX)
5. Play for free, or at least play 'at a discount'


I have two alts that do indie for me on the extra two slots. One was transferred, the other skilled up while my main was paused. In a way, you can already do this.

The scenario Gully is painting is the one I nearly lost my **** trying to explain until Tristan slapped a little sense into my babbling. ::edit:: If the prices are set too low this can actually financially backfire. I don't think people are including the psychological impact this will have on those that don't - or refuse to - inject. Much negative experience will be blamed on this and that can lead to lost subs, whether they are right or wrong about it. If we are honest, most of the bought plex comes from those who cannot manage Isk or ships well.::edit::
Officer Pressly
Doomheim
#1652 - 2016-01-29 13:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Officer Pressly
Amanda Orion wrote:
Driver wrote:

No one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy this stuff. And if you feel you need this to be able to compete any more, then that's on you.


Correcting an inaccurate statement tells you NOTHING about how I feel about how it will affect me.
So stop trying to pretend you are psychic.




This comming from a group of players that denies its members to fly anything but frigates, and only enables them to fly cruisers after a couple months. I think you are just afraid this will ruin your type of keeping your members the way you want them kept.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1653 - 2016-01-29 13:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
double post

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1654 - 2016-01-29 13:45:12 UTC
The Receptionist wrote:
Ignore dis post


Golly - do you work for AZ?

I do

This is not a signature.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1655 - 2016-01-29 14:36:32 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
So whatever Dev it was at the end of the 07 show was talking about how he was curious to see how much injectors would go for in game.
This is a deliberately misleading comment because CCP so obviously sets the price. These are not ship skins these are a high demand item therefor they will reach their plex/$$ equivalent.

If CCP sells them for $2.50 they will be 150mil on market, $5 they will be about 300mil, $10 they will be 600mil on market and if they sell for the same price as a plex they will be the same price as a plex in game.

Silly



No you're missing the point Smile I am curious to see how players will value the skillpoint part of the injector, as you say we know the extractor prices. The injector prices are thus floored at extractor prices, but on top of that comes the unknown added isk value for the skillpoints themselves. THAT is the interesting thing to watch for when this goes live.


i'm sorry, but when are you guys announcing the prices of the extractors? why this "secret"? in about 10 days we will have these things on live server and none know the price yet. wth is going on?
Suede
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1656 - 2016-01-29 14:57:08 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
Cixi wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:
So whatever Dev it was at the end of the 07 show was talking about how he was curious to see how much injectors would go for in game.
This is a deliberately misleading comment because CCP so obviously sets the price. These are not ship skins these are a high demand item therefor they will reach their plex/$$ equivalent.

If CCP sells them for $2.50 they will be 150mil on market, $5 they will be about 300mil, $10 they will be 600mil on market and if they sell for the same price as a plex they will be the same price as a plex in game.

Silly



No you're missing the point Smile I am curious to see how players will value the skillpoint part of the injector, as you say we know the extractor prices. The injector prices are thus floored at extractor prices, but on top of that comes the unknown added isk value for the skillpoints themselves. THAT is the interesting thing to watch for when this goes live.


Well the maximum price for SP will be 0.25, if the composite price for injector is more than that, people will start SP farms, it will most likely be less than that, at least at first


Yeah we can already see from the character bazaar that people are willing to sell SPs below training cost. The upper limit depends a bit on supply and demand, but as you say, if the conditions are favorable, players will turn to SP farming.


SP Farming will lead down to RMT as going to get many farming it, going to ruin the way eve is played as a game push it more over to Pay to Win
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1657 - 2016-01-29 15:40:40 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Quote:
Lastly, because the skill system is the same for everyone, it's not necessarily good or bad. It is equal.
Except that the access to that system is not equal.
Time, ISK and $.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1658 - 2016-01-29 16:19:59 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Here's another question, if I can buy skillpoints via the market, are you going to make a new subscription option that doesn't allow skill training but costs less?

Why expand in one direction but not the other? I should be able to play the game without having to train my character for a lower price.
You already will be able to do just that!

It's an interesting consequence of the new system, that apparently not many people have realized so far:

1. Get 1-month sub with your own money (cash or PLEX)
2. Gain SP, even though you do not want it for yourself
3. Sell all of that SP, get ISK
4. Use ISK to puy PLEX (you may or may not have to add some of your own ISK to get a full PLEX out of 1 month SP, depending on market prices; still it's highly probable that 1 month SP will allow you to fund at least 80-90% of a PLEX)
5. Play for free, or at least play 'at a discount'


No. There is still the opportunity cost of not getting the better/new skills.

Just because something does not involved some sort of currency does not mean there is no cost.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1659 - 2016-01-29 16:23:32 UTC
Suede wrote:


SP Farming will lead down to RMT as going to get many farming it, going to ruin the way eve is played as a game push it more over to Pay to Win


The desperate claim of someone who has no legs to stand on. Why would SP farming be any more likely to lead to RMT than any other ISK generating activity in game?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1660 - 2016-01-29 16:42:32 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:
I am curious to see how players will value the skillpoint part of the injector, as you say we know the extractor prices.

Then how about spilling this key bit of information?!

It's fairly obvious what's going to happen with the prices of the SP part. Obvious enough that I will happily bet some ISK on that through speculative investment. I'm more uncertain about the PLEX price fluctuations that will occur.

The key unknown variable is however the price that you will arbitrarily set for the extractor. This will determine who is in the market, and how fast it will move.

In the real world, a fair guess can be made about the price of any new device in terms of the materials, tech, R&D cost and labour. Since however these devices will drop inexplicably from the sky into the AUR store, we really know nothing about them.

Frankly, a price that would make sense in terms of existing in-game technology would be "considerably less than it costs to create a new jump clone". Or perhaps "not more than the most expensive skill injection (via a skill book)". A price that would make sense within the game world is hence somewhere between a few thousand ISK to perhaps thirty million ISK or so.

Yet somehow I get the feeling that an extractor price conforming properly to current in-game technology - of about 0.01-10 AUR - is not on the cards...

So what are you going to charge?