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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1561 - 2016-01-28 04:34:04 UTC
Quote:
It breaks the main core mechanics of what Eve is and why it's unique for a player to transfer his/her already trained skills to an entirely different char.


Self-botting XP bar is a mechanic ? Or something unique ? Come blody on ....

It's an artificial, meaningless timewall existing solely for the reason of keeping people subscribed before they are useful in most (not all) realistic scenarios. It's also a mutated leftover from "mmo must have xp bar" concept. And from 2003 EvE with no T2, T3, titans, capitals, rigging, planets and a good few other things.

Again: it's sole purpose has always been subscription money in form of extremely simplistic and primitive "achievment" bait (that people actually believe in it is both sad and amazing at the same time).

And it took well over decade for CCP to realise it's hurting the (much more bloated now than 12 years ago) game far more than helping with anything.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#1562 - 2016-01-28 04:40:43 UTC
"I'm not getting the same conclusion regarding either a set availability or value from that. Rather he stated SP availability is variable. Meanwhile I'd question the logic that a high extractor price does anything to change availability in a positive fashion or further the idea that those power blocks can somehow realistically be priced out while still making them obtainable by anyone else."

Do you realistically believe that people that use plex for Isk will continue to use just plex? It will be easier and cheaper to sell extractors, which brings us to the diminishing availability of plex and its exponential increased demand - or, again, do you both think these SP farms will be paid with real subs? The equations are estimations based on current numbers and not accurate models based on an overwhelming probability of the cheap extractors surpassing plex in value. You say it is impossible, but is it really?
Shova'k
The Bank Of Jita
#1563 - 2016-01-28 04:41:22 UTC
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not.

IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

increasing your SP does not make you any better at the game learning from experience and playing the game and asking for help from more experienced players is how you get better only ways to get better actually. suddenly having 100 mill sp wont make you better at fitting or tactics or strategy or when to fight or flee ect...

the reason is the only proof out there is to the contrary that buying a char (soon sp) ends in disaster when they dont know what they are doing such examples as officer fit mission ships that get ganked for the 10-50 bill in mods they fit . fail officer fits trying to do solo pvp and much more. before you cry omg its pay to win try using common sense first then make an educated desicion.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#1564 - 2016-01-28 04:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
And even if this disaster it's curtailed, the damage would have been done. The low cost of the extractors would bring this upside down situation that makes this exploitable by not just the rich 1% but the 10%. That is what you are not grasping.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1565 - 2016-01-28 04:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Oreb Wing wrote:
Do you realistically believe that people that use plex for Isk will continue to use just plex? It will be easier and cheaper to sell extractors, which brings us to the diminishing availability of plex and its exponential increased demand - or, again, do you both think these SP farms will be paid with real subs? The equations are estimations based on current numbers and not accurate models based on an overwhelming probability of the cheap extractors surpassing plex in value. You say it is impossible, but is it really?
In the case you just spoke of, someone selling PLEX in game for isk, yes, the "farm" sub is very likely paid directly. Every SP buyer on the other hand won't have that option to sate their need for isk due to it being directly counter productive. They will have to grind the isk or be a PLEX supplier.

Also extractors can't surpass PLEX in value. So long as PLEX is convertible to AUR, high extractor prices in isk relative to PLEX will drive demand for PLEX to get a better exchange rate. Well, I guess if enough people forget how to do math or that PLEX to AUR is a thing it could work out differently, but I'd rather not shoot the in game price of both waaaay up on the hope that no one figures that out.

Oreb Wing wrote:
And even if this disaster it's curtailed, the damage would have been done. The low cost of the extractors would bring this upside down situation that makes this exploitable by not just the rich 1% but the 10%. That is what you are not grasping.
If the 10% can manipulate it that means significant quantities can be moved by a far wider range of players than if only a 1% can manipulate it.

And it has at best a negative effect on supply, so less or the same potential stock on a more price inflated item benefits non-block buyers how exactly? Especially when the manipulators can't control the flow of the item into the market?

It sounds like your solution here is to just price it so the items simply won't move due to cost rather than even attempt to let a potential abundance take care of it. Even if the abundance strategy fails and manipulation drives prices higher we're no worse off on a liquid market with the future potential to correct that.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1566 - 2016-01-28 05:05:08 UTC
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not.

IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

increasing your SP does not make you any better at the game learning from experience and playing the game and asking for help from more experienced players is how you get better only ways to get better actually. suddenly having 100 mill sp wont make you better at fitting or tactics or strategy or when to fight or flee ect...

the reason is the only proof out there is to the contrary that buying a char (soon sp) ends in disaster when they dont know what they are doing such examples as officer fit mission ships that get ganked for the 10-50 bill in mods they fit . fail officer fits trying to do solo pvp and much more. before you cry omg its pay to win try using common sense first then make an educated desicion.


Where have you been dude? You have just explained that loud and clear that SP sell is bad idea.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1567 - 2016-01-28 05:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not.

IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

increasing your SP does not make you any better at the game learning from experience and playing the game and asking for help from more experienced players is how you get better only ways to get better actually. suddenly having 100 mill sp wont make you better at fitting or tactics or strategy or when to fight or flee ect...

the reason is the only proof out there is to the contrary that buying a char (soon sp) ends in disaster when they dont know what they are doing such examples as officer fit mission ships that get ganked for the 10-50 bill in mods they fit . fail officer fits trying to do solo pvp and much more. before you cry omg its pay to win try using common sense first then make an educated desicion.
Where have you been dude? You have just explained that loud and clear that SP sell is bad idea.
More like the fact that CCP is giving people more room to fail rather than enabling them to win. But since when is the idea of giving someone room to fail a reason something can't or shouldn't be in game?
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1568 - 2016-01-28 05:13:20 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not.

IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

increasing your SP does not make you any better at the game learning from experience and playing the game and asking for help from more experienced players is how you get better only ways to get better actually. suddenly having 100 mill sp wont make you better at fitting or tactics or strategy or when to fight or flee ect...

the reason is the only proof out there is to the contrary that buying a char (soon sp) ends in disaster when they dont know what they are doing such examples as officer fit mission ships that get ganked for the 10-50 bill in mods they fit . fail officer fits trying to do solo pvp and much more. before you cry omg its pay to win try using common sense first then make an educated desicion.
Where have you been dude? You have just explained that loud and clear that SP sell is bad idea.
More like the fact that CCP is giving people more room to fail rather than enabling them to win. But since when is the idea of giving someone room to fail a reason something can't or shouldn't be in game?

You mean the idea like fitting officer mods would bring you a victory? Very true statement.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1569 - 2016-01-28 05:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.
Shova'k
The Bank Of Jita
#1570 - 2016-01-28 06:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Shova'k
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".



your trolling level is around -5 with that terrible post. pay to win by definition is when you can pay to gain a clear advantage when in eve all you can do is pay to save time and still be terrible at the game. the fact that you mentioned a computer virus as your reference is just pretty terrible WoW is nothing more then a computer virus that should be whipped from existence. also your opinion does not count as proof of a pay to win option that does not exist and will not exist with this new addition nice try tho.

@ tiddle jr - I never said buying sp was a good idea :P but it hell it gives the rest of us delicious kill mails in the end Cool
Josef Djugashvilis
#1571 - 2016-01-28 07:14:48 UTC
Dear, dear Yaasmine, I assume you have acess to your parents credit card to enable you to buy all the skill points you desire?

If not, then cash for skills will only mean that you will fall even further behind those who started around the same time as you and who do have credit cards.

Oh, and you have several times you have done with this thread, and yet, there you are, still posting.

Kind regards.

This is not a signature.

Josef Djugashvilis
#1572 - 2016-01-28 07:19:16 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Alea wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Alea wrote:
I'm going to miss this game once the lazy, instant gratification kiddies get done ruining it..

I'm going to enjoy shooting them all. SP doesn't equal skill.


I hope there will be a way to tell who buys SP so I can keep them under a constant wardec, hell I'll create another corp just for that purpose alone, thanks for the idea.

I'm ambivalent about whether there should be a public account of purchased SP. I wouldn't mind personally. But I do like that it introduces more intel uncertainty. Perfect intel is bad IMHO.


It is a serious mistake for anyone to equate the birth date of a player will skill points.

Unfortunately, I am a good example of such misguided thinking.

This is not a signature.

Cixi
#1573 - 2016-01-28 07:29:24 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.



Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1574 - 2016-01-28 07:30:03 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Alea wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Alea wrote:
I'm going to miss this game once the lazy, instant gratification kiddies get done ruining it..

I'm going to enjoy shooting them all. SP doesn't equal skill.


I hope there will be a way to tell who buys SP so I can keep them under a constant wardec, hell I'll create another corp just for that purpose alone, thanks for the idea.

I'm ambivalent about whether there should be a public account of purchased SP. I wouldn't mind personally. But I do like that it introduces more intel uncertainty. Perfect intel is bad IMHO.


It is a serious mistake for anyone to equate the birth date of a player will skill points.

Unfortunately, I am a good example of such misguided thinking.

You are correct. But it does work in one direction at the moment, namely that a young player (for example) cannot fly a dictor. Anyway, uncertainty is good. A couple of weeks ago I lost a Magus to a Hecate plus a Curse (who was sneakily d-scan immune in a plex). I thought it was great. New mechanics which add surprise elements (thinking Command Destroyers) are positive for the game. It has become to algebraic with the outcome calculable before you even undock.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1575 - 2016-01-28 07:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.



Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.

This seems to be the typical mindset of the PVP players in this thread. Try to remember that Eve is not all about PVP. If Eve was all about PVP then sure, I'd welcome the change like all the other PVP brainiacs. But as I stated earlier in this thread, some of us Eve players actually like the role playing experience that Eve provides and this SP trading scheme completely shatters that experience.
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#1576 - 2016-01-28 07:51:06 UTC
If CCP's willing to float Plex into the game to keep inflation under some sort of control, do you really think they won't float SP injectors in to keep the micro-transaction income in the black ink?

If I wanted to buy FaceBook tokens to fast repair my fleet in Battle Pirates, I'd still be playing frikken Battle Pirates, Not Eve Online.

The theory of a limited amount of SP to buy or sell is false. Who's sandbox are we playing in again?

If the SPs run low, CCP can with a click of a coding, create more out of TQ's thinning air with some alts for sale on the character bazaar to have their brain drain surgery.

Plex getting a little high on the inflation? No biggie, CCP alts can crank out a few dozen contracts at the price they want the market to re-balance to.

They want those Aurum packages to sell, since that is the one thing un-tradable in this whole cash grab scheme. First taste is free, just ask any successful dealer. So I shall pass on sampling the SP injector goods.

I Just Say No.

CCP has decided their outlook on their future as a gaming company (VR for the 1%, rest not worth the effort), their bogus call for 'feedback' on a decision already made and paid for in Aria cloud software, their silence on fulfilling a growing list of promises, and that it's jump on the $5 clicky bandwagon since it's good for us (them).

Someone in that glass tower might wanna scoop this sandbox. The kitty crunchies are piling up and it smells bad.

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1577 - 2016-01-28 07:55:33 UTC
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.



Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.


Damn you! You have just ruin my cloudy dream where Neo has loaded Kung-Fu skils and helicopter driving skills and performed damn well immediatelly.

To bad we are not in Matrix...

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1578 - 2016-01-28 08:10:14 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
If CCP's willing to float Plex into the game to keep inflation under some sort of control, do you really think they won't float SP injectors in to keep the micro-transaction income in the black ink?

If I wanted to buy FaceBook tokens to fast repair my fleet in Battle Pirates, I'd still be playing frikken Battle Pirates, Not Eve Online.

The theory of a limited amount of SP to buy or sell is false. Who's sandbox are we playing in again?

If the SPs run low, CCP can with a click of a coding, create more out of TQ's thinning air with some alts for sale on the character bazaar to have their brain drain surgery.

Plex getting a little high on the inflation? No biggie, CCP alts can crank out a few dozen contracts at the price they want the market to re-balance to.

They want those Aurum packages to sell, since that is the one thing un-tradable in this whole cash grab scheme. First taste is free, just ask any successful dealer. So I shall pass on sampling the SP injector goods.

I Just Say No.

CCP has decided their outlook on their future as a gaming company (VR for the 1%, rest not worth the effort), their bogus call for 'feedback' on a decision already made and paid for in Aria cloud software, their silence on fulfilling a growing list of promises, and that it's jump on the $5 clicky bandwagon since it's good for us (them).

Someone in that glass tower might wanna scoop this sandbox. The kitty crunchies are piling up and it smells bad.

>Jeven

This nonsense is not what they are actually doing.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Cixi
#1579 - 2016-01-28 08:16:01 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.



Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.

This seems to be the typical mindset of the PVP players in this thread. Try to remember that Eve is not all about PVP. If Eve was all about PVP then sure, I'd welcome the change like all the other PVP brainiacs. But as I stated earlier in this thread, some of us Eve players actually like the role playing experience that Eve provides and this SP trading scheme completely shatters that experience.


This is the same for everything. I don't PvP at all, I'm a trader, it's even harder for a trader to compete only with SP, because spreadsheets, and also... standings
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1580 - 2016-01-28 08:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
[quote=Shova'k]I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.


Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.

This seems to be the typical mindset of the PVP players in this thread. Try to remember that Eve is not all about PVP. If Eve was all about PVP then sure, I'd welcome the change like all the other PVP brainiacs. But as I stated earlier in this thread, some of us Eve players actually like the role playing experience that Eve provides and this SP trading scheme completely shatters that experience.


This is the same for everything. I don't PvP at all, I'm a trader, it's even harder for a trader to compete only with SP, because spreadsheets, and also... standings


Is that mean if player B maxed his trading skills by injectors would also be outperformed by player A who trained all those in a standard manner?

In your example with Comets there is pretty clear that both have similar goals of being perfect Comet pilots if i got you right. And perfect means maxed all related skills. And this is why CCP is introducing this SP bazar. And here where the bullshit is hiden. New arrivals those who have no actual experience got false info and interpret SP purchase as a "golden ticket" to perfect conditions. I haven't found any words in Rise's thread where he mentioned that to newbies.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP