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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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ViolentDesire
78934223
#1501 - 2016-01-27 21:16:31 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:


That would be irrelevant given that reddit is used to argue this being supported. But if that was a concern, CCP could likely filter out a significant number of alts.


yes, but the silent minority who would not care or be against, would not vote. They would count as pro SP trading (they are not against), from CCPs point of view. If they did the vote like you say, they fix their own survey against themselves. Who would do that?


I disagree with that assessment. It is more honest than reddit. We also dont know how many would vote, it might result in a clear yes/no.
Yaasmine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1502 - 2016-01-27 21:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:


That would be irrelevant given that reddit is used to argue this being supported. But if that was a concern, CCP could likely filter out a significant number of alts.


yes, but the silent minority who would not care or be against, would not vote. They would count as pro SP trading (they are not against), from CCPs point of view. If they did the vote like you say, they fix their own survey against themselves. Who would do that?


I disagree with that assessment. It is more honest than reddit. We also dont know how many would vote, it might result in a clear yes/no.

instead of putting it in 1 place(IE in game), they can get the feeling from people who are considering playing as well(potential new players)
and people who may be inactive (cause skill que online only needs you to log in once a month)
and active players.


there are college courses for polling methods. go take one =/


reddit says 88-92% support
similar number of likes on facebook to reddit
and videos talking about it that support it get 92% likes to dislikes.


so 92% support. Skill Injector is approved
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1503 - 2016-01-27 21:20:08 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Yaasmine wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

The issue was if they wanted to know. They dont. If they did, they could find out. This is in line with refusing to discuss in the 300 page thread.

Well, not really. It would be hard to know what people really want from that vote. Most likely only the ones strongly for or against would vote. The ones who don't care and will not leave the game if it is implemented, would most likely not vote. As the ones that don't care counts in CCPs favor regarding implementing SP trading (As they are not against and would not leave), you would bias the survey. By omitting the ones who don't care if it is implemented, the people against it would end up as overrepresentated. It would be %con vs. %pro, instead of the more relevant %con vs. %pro + %neutral. I understand why you woul want that as it is biased in your favour, but scientific it is not.

This is of course without considering how ridiculous it would be to get everyone to vote for something this small.

and including how many people have alts that would use the alts to gain more votes for their opinion


That would be irrelevant given that reddit is used to argue this being supported. But if that was a concern, CCP could likely filter out a significant number of alts.


or. CCP could look at Reddit, see how many more upvoted than downvoted.

they could compare these numbers to facebook, how many likes it recieved.


Or they could send an eve mail and take part in the discussion and maybe offer a compromise. They selectively use the sources that support their position and ignore everything else.
Yaasmine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1504 - 2016-01-27 21:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:


Or they could send an eve mail and take part in the discussion and maybe offer a compromise. They selectively use the sources that support their position and ignore everything else.


LOL
sendd an EVE mail, and then read EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE.

RIP THE INTERNS. THEY NEVER HAD A CHANCE.



they did make this thread to discuss comprises (of which the ones said were limiting to a few per 6 months, or capping out at a level of SP, or keeping for new player tutorials.)

but. the thread had negative nancy doomcallers who flooded it with spam calls of greed, end of the game, and corruption.


so they likely decided "its the same 5 people spamming over and over. lets just go to other sources that don't have someone's finger on the copy paste key"



after all, its hard to have a conversation to reach a compromise when theres a 3rd person throwing crap at you in between each line of dialogue
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1505 - 2016-01-27 21:25:46 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:


That would be irrelevant given that reddit is used to argue this being supported. But if that was a concern, CCP could likely filter out a significant number of alts.


yes, but the silent minority who would not care or be against, would not vote. They would count as pro SP trading (they are not against), from CCPs point of view. If they did the vote like you say, they fix their own survey against themselves. Who would do that?


I disagree with that assessment. It is more honest than reddit. We also dont know how many would vote, it might result in a clear yes/no.

instead of putting it in 1 place(IE in game), they can get the feeling from people who are considering playing as well(potential new players)
and people who may be inactive (cause skill que online only needs you to log in once a month)
and active players.


there are college courses for polling methods. go take one =/


reddit says 88-92% support
similar number of likes on facebook to reddit
and videos talking about it that support it get 92% likes to dislikes.


so 92% support. Skill Injector is approved


It is reasonable to ask the current players. The reason they dont is because they likely know already. Facebook and reddit upvote pretty much anything.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1506 - 2016-01-27 21:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
ViolentDesire wrote:

Disagree. But even if it did, it would be better than what we have now. So it comes back not wanting to know. Probably because they do "know".


You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.

But I agree with you, that they don't want to know. Like I wrote. I think it is fine though, that they put up the small play, for the people in the community who needs to feel like their voice is important enough to be heard.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1507 - 2016-01-27 21:27:36 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:


Or they could send an eve mail and take part in the discussion and maybe offer a compromise. They selectively use the sources that support their position and ignore everything else.


LOL
sendd an EVE mail, and then read EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE.

RIP THE INTERNS. THEY NEVER HAD A CHANCE.



they did make this thread to discuss comprises (of which the ones said were limiting to a few per 6 months, or capping out at a level of SP, or keeping for new player tutorials.)

but. the thread had negative nancy doomcallers who flooded it with spam calls of greed, end of the game, and corruption.


so they likely decided "its the same 5 people spamming over and over. lets just go to other sources that don't have someone's finger on the copy paste key"



after all, its hard to have a conversation to reach a compromise when theres a 3rd person throwing crap at you in between each line of dialogue


No, it would contain a link to a page where people could vote.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1508 - 2016-01-27 21:29:44 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
It is reasonable to ask the current players.
They did ask back in October.
Yaasmine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1509 - 2016-01-27 21:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:


That would be irrelevant given that reddit is used to argue this being supported. But if that was a concern, CCP could likely filter out a significant number of alts.


yes, but the silent minority who would not care or be against, would not vote. They would count as pro SP trading (they are not against), from CCPs point of view. If they did the vote like you say, they fix their own survey against themselves. Who would do that?


I disagree with that assessment. It is more honest than reddit. We also dont know how many would vote, it might result in a clear yes/no.

instead of putting it in 1 place(IE in game), they can get the feeling from people who are considering playing as well(potential new players)
and people who may be inactive (cause skill que online only needs you to log in once a month)
and active players.


there are college courses for polling methods. go take one =/


reddit says 88-92% support
similar number of likes on facebook to reddit
and videos talking about it that support it get 92% likes to dislikes.


so 92% support. Skill Injector is approved


It is reasonable to ask the current players. The reason they dont is because they likely know already. Facebook and reddit upvote pretty much anything.


THEY DID ASK CURRENT PLAYERS


fanfest was positive to it.
they announced it on main page and launcher. plus made this thread (but thread died to 5 people spamming doomcry an corruption insults over and over and over)

there are massive EVE communities on reddit. who are also current players. (and they don't upvote anything. trust me. go tell Wargaming to nerf the IS-3 in WoT on reddit and get ready for a hellstorm to come your way)

facebook has more social communities, which are major for spread the word to people who might not notice the above ways. and has current players


youtube is the biggest form of advertisement honestly, and lets people converse in different styles. and the videos i've seen explaining it (i just post my favorite) all have vast supporting statistics.




the difference between reddit, facebook, youtube, and the forums.
is reddit, facebook, and youtube have more people who notice them.


and remember. skill que online only requires you to log in once per month (or 3 months)
so you'll get more peoples attention from reddit, youtube, and facebook. than you would if you ask in game where people aren't even undocking or logging in because the skill que to use something is weeks or months long.







CCP wants people to PLAY. undock and PLAY

they don't want people to sub, and then leave an forget because skill que online doesn't encourage people to log on.




and remember. fanfest was largely positive to it.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1510 - 2016-01-27 21:33:44 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
It is reasonable to ask the current players.
They did ask back in October.


Our conversation is over. It is implied that the "answer" they get should be able to affect the decision. It is unlikely that it ever could.
Yaasmine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1511 - 2016-01-27 21:36:42 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
It is reasonable to ask the current players.
They did ask back in October.


Our conversation is over. It is implied that the "answer" they get should be able to affect the decision. It is unlikely that it ever could.

it did affect the descision

for higher total SP captains. they now get more SP from injectors than was originally planned.
why? because alot of PLAYERS wanted it that way
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1512 - 2016-01-27 21:37:15 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Disagree. But even if it did, it would be better than what we have now. So it comes back not wanting to know. Probably because they do "know".


You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.


It is not impossible to have a poll on this. It does not have to be perfect.

I would prefer if they took part in the discussion and argued their positions. I remember at least a few solid points from the previous thread that deserved a reply.
Suede
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1513 - 2016-01-27 21:38:25 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Disagree. But even if it did, it would be better than what we have now. So it comes back not wanting to know. Probably because they do "know".


You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.

But I agree with you, that they don't want to know. Like I wrote. I think it is fine though, that they put up the small play, for the people in the community who needs to feel like their voice is important enough to be heard.


people have been playing since alpha/beta and the old vet do have the right to say what they feel as they had to wait out many months to train skills. we all have the right to say our views to CCP if they read them

Always have been a done deal from the word go. not sure if you have alts just sero Hita kinda a new toon 2015
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1514 - 2016-01-27 21:39:56 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
It is reasonable to ask the current players.
They did ask back in October.


Our conversation is over. It is implied that the "answer" they get should be able to affect the decision. It is unlikely that it ever could.

it did affect the descision

for higher total SP captains. they now get more SP from injectors than was originally planned.
why? because alot of PLAYERS wanted it that way


I don't see how that conclusion could have been reached based on that thread.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1515 - 2016-01-27 21:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
ViolentDesire wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
It is reasonable to ask the current players.
They did ask back in October.
Our conversation is over. It is implied that the "answer" they get should be able to affect the decision. It is unlikely that it ever could.
The answer did affect the decision, as shown by changes in the details of the plan. That's not the same as deferring the decision to a popular vote.

ViolentDesire wrote:
I don't see how that conclusion could have been reached based on that thread.
Then you didn't read as much as others did and missed those claiming the plan did too much to disenfranchise older players with the high SP penalties.
Yaasmine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1516 - 2016-01-27 21:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaasmine
ViolentDesire wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Disagree. But even if it did, it would be better than what we have now. So it comes back not wanting to know. Probably because they do "know".


You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.


It is not impossible to have a poll on this. It does not have to be perfect.

I would prefer if they took part in the discussion and argued their positions. I remember at least a few solid points from the previous thread that deserved a reply.

this is a poll
http://i.imgur.com/lgXNmsG.png

a poll that is 92% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/o1k1Pxs.png

that is 88% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/Rflvo75.png

that is 92% positive to it







you know what a poll is right? it doesnt need to be on EVE's main page. because not many visit the main page. or read the launcher. (even less when u remember SKILL QUE ONLINE ONLY NEEDS YOU MONTHLY)

and people who CARE about the topic, have gone to these. and voted.

they not hard to find. just type eve skill injector to google.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1517 - 2016-01-27 21:46:18 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:


I would prefer if they took part in the discussion and argued their positions. I remember at least a few solid points from the previous thread that deserved a reply.


I agree on this part. Personally I can understand though how one can loose the motivation to answer (also the very good points), when you see the tone in which some people reply. It is not optimal to ignore the threads, but I do understand it from CCPs point of view, when you are just trying to do your job, and is met with sometimes extreme negativity.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
ViolentDesire
78934223
#1518 - 2016-01-27 21:49:34 UTC
Yaasmine wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Disagree. But even if it did, it would be better than what we have now. So it comes back not wanting to know. Probably because they do "know".


You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.


It is not impossible to have a poll on this. It does not have to be perfect.

I would prefer if they took part in the discussion and argued their positions. I remember at least a few solid points from the previous thread that deserved a reply.

this is a poll
http://i.imgur.com/lgXNmsG.png

a poll that is 92% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/o1k1Pxs.png

that is 88% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/Rflvo75.png

that is 92% positive to it







you know what a poll is right? it doesnt need to be on EVE's main page. because not many visit the main page. or read the launcher.

and people who CARE about the topic, have gone to these. and voted.

they not hard to find. just type eve skill injector to google.


Anyone can upvote on reddit. If the accuracy of the poll is of any concern, Reddit is invalid by default. Unless there is massive confirmation bias.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1519 - 2016-01-27 21:50:33 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
They have a name for the in-game item to utilize this feature, it will happen.
Resistance is futile.

+1 CCP

ps: Can I have your (skillpoint-)stuff?



just like I said before, kick the dead horse a few more times, contract me your stuff and say hello to SP packs
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1520 - 2016-01-27 21:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Yaasmine wrote:

this is a poll
http://i.imgur.com/lgXNmsG.png

a poll that is 92% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/o1k1Pxs.png

that is 88% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/Rflvo75.png

that is 92% positive to it







you know what a poll is right? it doesnt need to be on EVE's main page. because not many visit the main page. or read the launcher. (even less when u remember SKILL QUE ONLINE ONLY NEEDS YOU MONTHLY)

and people who CARE about the topic, have gone to these. and voted.

they not hard to find. just type eve skill injector to google.


these surveys have very small sample sizes though, and seems hardly representative of the community. I would be very carefull with interpreting too much from these.

^edit- Plus if you can vote more times, it really becomes dangerous to interprete considering only 200-300 people voted in some of these.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker