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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4201 - 2016-01-26 08:55:55 UTC
As I said earlier, if this is EvE in maintenance mode, then save me from real development effort. I can hardly keep up with the pace of change atm. I'm prioritizing my skill training again!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4202 - 2016-01-26 09:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Lucas Kell wrote:
Nope, it's just an easy conclusion to come to now.

Because you are only considering the things that talk for your point of view and omitting those that talk against. Let me illustrate how i could easily get another conclusion with adding some information to your points of opinion:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Then look at the changes that have been done recently, with bigger changes being pushed back, and even their creative naming of patches being benched.

you have heard that EVE has gone back to the bigger expansions , right? Like the comunity wanted. This is also why you feel there are less changes being released, and mostly minor changes. So big changes in expansions, and smaller features in the monthly'ish releases(like the december release).
I have earlier explained why I think the monthly releases are not named anymore, and why I think the big expansions will be (TLDR. to differentiate the two kind of releases). If the big expansion with citadels and capitals changes are named something mythical we would know, that I was right in that it is a marketing strategy and not a lack of focus, as you claim.
Lucas Kell wrote:

Then there's the shift towards more microtransactions.

this just means they want to increase their revenue, has nothing to do with their focus IMO. Changing financial model is not a proof that they have given up on a product (it could mean it, it could also not, as it is not directly connected).
Lucas Kell wrote:

Valkyrie is getting a lot of focus, which it obviously would seeing how much cash has been thrown into it and how it's an oculus launch title. A developer would be crazy not to put more focus into that. That leaves EVE falling behind in itself.

Well, tbh. it just means they focus a lot on the promotions of their new game they have developed (you know in order for it to be successfull). People on these forums seems to think that any focus diverted from EVE, could not be partially re-diverted later on. And tbh. this does not prove that they have left EVE to fall behind. It is a very narrow interpretation of the introduction of valkyrie. As the games cathers to two different types of players, I am not too worried about EVE. It is called diversifying your strategies/assets.
Lucas Kell wrote:

All in all it paints a picture of a company shifting away from an old product. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the honest impression I get.

I don't think it looks as bad as you claim, when you bring more information into the picture. And I still think you have a tendency to read everything though a filter of pre-defined opinion. Which is why no matter what they would do, I am sure you would see it as a proof that are abandoning EVE.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#4203 - 2016-01-26 10:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Lucas Kell wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
the Devs have not given up on EVE and i just can't see how you've come to that conclusion.
It is easy to get to an conclusion, that one has decided on before hand.
Nope, it's just an easy conclusion to come to now. Valkyrie is getting a lot of focus, which it obviously would seeing how much cash has been thrown into it and how it's an oculus launch title. A developer would be crazy not to put more focus into that. That leaves EVE falling behind in itself. Then look at the changes that have been done recently, with bigger changes being pushed back, and even their creative naming of patches being benched. Then there's the shift towards more microtransactions. All in all it paints a picture of a company shifting away from an old product. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the honest impression I get.


If CCP had given up on EVE you just wouldn't see devs working on EVE at the level they currently are.
all these changes Lucas need people to work on them.
Val was put together by a small group of guys in their own time if i remember right and still i don't see where you see CCP kicking EVE into second place. Too much work is going on with the game to even think it's all going to be dropped because another Title may do well.
There is times i go hmmmmm with CCP decisions but other times i go wow feck me sideways. the good with the bad lucas.

PS: forgot to add all the new servers CCP purchased to upgrade our universe Big smile
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#4204 - 2016-01-26 10:32:00 UTC
The problem isn't EVE, the problem is STILL peoples expectations.

Not going to solve that one any time soon.

EVE is doing fine from where I am sitting, and tbh that's all that's important... to me :)

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4205 - 2016-01-26 11:29:18 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
If CCP had given up on EVE you just wouldn't see devs working on EVE at the level they currently are.
What level is that? The way I see it the developments are smaller and take longer. I'm not saying they are doing no work on it, I'm simply saying they look like they are shifting focus so EVE-O will be a secondary product.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Val was put together by a small group of guys in their own time if i remember right and still i don't see where you see CCP kicking EVE into second place. Too much work is going on with the game to even think it's all going to be dropped because another Title may do well.
It's been worked on by more than that, and now it's and oculus launch title and CCP have just got a $30m investment into their VR development. At the same time, EVE player counts have been dropping. I'd say that's a pretty good sign that their focus is going to shift.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
PS: forgot to add all the new servers CCP purchased to upgrade our universe Big smile
New servers happen in a lot of places, oftentimes not for the reasons you think. Old servers cost more to pay to maintenance providers to cover them, they also tend to require more hardware to do the same thing as newer hardware. It's not farfetched to think that CCP are introducing new hardware to run their new games and at the same time moving EVE-O servers onto newer hardware so that long-term maintenance costs and service fees are reduced.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#4206 - 2016-01-26 12:36:48 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:


The way I see it the developments are smaller and take longer. I'm not saying they are doing no work on it, I'm simply saying they look like they are shifting focus so EVE-O will be a secondary product.



the way you see it, lucas please you know nothing about CCP's projects and the inner workings of the company, what are you smoking?
there ya go again assuming shite.

Lucas Kell wrote:


It's been worked on by more than that, and now it's and oculus launch title and CCP have just got a $30m investment into their VR development. At the same time, EVE player counts have been dropping. I'd say that's a pretty good sign that their focus is going to shift.



well Lucas who knows all,, how many devs are working on it? from what i see your saying you'd like CCP to drop Val and VR development because numbers dropped in this game. that's just lol Roll and the drop in numbers is nowhere near panic mode. but drop development?? nuts whole hazel nuts ShockedRoll

Lucas Kell wrote:


New servers happen in a lot of places, oftentimes not for the reasons you think. Old servers cost more to pay to maintenance providers to cover them, they also tend to require more hardware to do the same thing as newer hardware. It's not farfetched to think that CCP are introducing new hardware to run their new games and at the same time moving EVE-O servers onto newer hardware so that long-term maintenance costs and service fees are reduced.



i work in IT, but hey lucas knows better, get off your orange box it's getting boring at this stage and there you go again assuming you know what CCP are doing. why does everything have to be a conspiracy with you lucas.
pretty much done talking about this with you at this point, you believe whatever you want lucas. it matters not.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4207 - 2016-01-26 13:57:46 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
The problem isn't EVE, the problem is STILL peoples expectations.

Not going to solve that one any time soon.

EVE is doing fine from where I am sitting, and tbh that's all that's important... to me :)


Move over, I'm sitting in the same place lol.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4208 - 2016-01-26 14:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is supposedly a grown man typing this. If you think this, how about you and I organize a PVE competiton. We don't have to be in the same system even, it can be frapsed. Since I'm such a slow learner, you should be able to beat my times and/or 'resource acquisition numbers' (ore, isk, items, whatever). I'll let you choose the venue (ie type of site/activity).
Hmmm, spend time hanging out with someone that likes to dedicate their life to attacking me. No thanks bro. You burned any chance of that a long time back. But let's face it, EVE doesn't change much and if you're still figuring out PvE now then you either a slow learner or you're not putting in the time you claim to be.


Beleive me when I say that the last thing I'd ever do is 'hang out' with someone like you. In a game or out of it.

I said nothing about hanging out. I challenge you to a test of game skill, since you have chosen to believe that I don't know what I am doing. Lets put it to the test, lets show everyone that you aren't all talk. Because this is a video game, we don't even need to be in the same region or online at the same time.

You pick the activity.

Quote:
Totally. Luckily in this case I don't need to realise that, since if the problem was me then thousands of other players wouldn't have left EVE. Wanting CCP to keep their game up to date and in line with the market isn't; a bad thing. You just hate change and dont; want to bother adapting so you want things kept as they are. Too bad. Go play a single player game, they patch those less often. MMOs change, that's just the way it goes.


This isn't about change. You know that. This is about your preferences. EVE doesn't match your preferences, and you want that to change.

It matches mine (and as you can see, others posting here), even through all the evolution it's experienced since I started playing. That is the difference here, I like what EVE is, you have problems with major portions of it. After almost 9 years I'm still finding new stuff to do. You've decreased your game playing to 1 or 2 hours per week, dropped accounts and found games that suit you better.

Quote:
This again... I don't have this desperate need to prove that anyone with an opinion that doesn't match my own is mentally unstable, so if you're alright then I'm sure I'll be fine.


Not anyone Kell. YOU. Lots of people have differing opinions from me. Malcanis for example thinks Dinsdale is a nice dude once you get to know him, my forum buddy Kaarous thinks PVE is boring etc etc. Tippia and I have disagreed sharply several times.

But you, no sir, you are in your own league. You don't much care for EVE (and this is where you will deny this, but to recap, you have dropped accounts, play an hour or 2 per week, only post on the forums because of boredom and think Elite is more fun, all your own words), you've posted more in this thread than in the whole forum over a year of a game you do like. You try to be moderate when your views are actually radical.

You have a right to be who you are Kell. As long as you sub no one can keep you from posting the insanity you do, and I wouldn't even if I could. But you have issues brother and your views of EVE are useless.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4209 - 2016-01-26 14:25:57 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

pretty much done talking about this with you at this point, you believe whatever you want lucas. it matters not.


this is the correct method of dealing with lucas,
he used to shite up c&p no end till we all collectively got bored of the same old shtick and started ignoring him.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4210 - 2016-01-26 14:31:04 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

pretty much done talking about this with you at this point, you believe whatever you want lucas. it matters not.


this is the correct method of dealing with lucas,
he used to shite up c&p no end till we all collectively got bored of the same old shtick and started ignoring him.


IMO it's because replying to him feeds his victim complex, and I'm one of the most guilty of that. I'm honestly going to stop because I know that help for that kind of thing doesn't come from someone he doesn't know on the internet lol.

It's hard to do sometimes because you don't want people to think that what he is saying is true (it's not), but then I realized one thing. If anyone with any real power to affect things believes what people like that say, they themselves were hopeless to begin with lol.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4211 - 2016-01-26 14:42:52 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
the way you see it, lucas please you know nothing about CCP's projects and the inner workings of the company, what are you smoking?
there ya go again assuming shite.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm looking at what is actually being done and interpreting that. I understand your opinion and my opinion aren't the same, which is what you're trying to say between flair-ups of nerd rage. Calm down son.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
well Lucas who knows all,, how many devs are working on it? from what i see your saying you'd like CCP to drop Val and VR development because numbers dropped in this game. that's just lol Roll and the drop in numbers is nowhere near panic mode. but drop development?? nuts whole hazel nuts ShockedRoll
I don't know the number but I know it's their entire newcastle studio at the very least. Certainly more than "a small group of guys". And no, I'm not saying they should drop VR development, where the hell did you get that idea? With the big investment they've got in VR, I'd certainly put more focus on VR, and that's what I think they are doing. I think they should find better ways of improving EVE that take less resource and have bigger wins in terms of player retention.

xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
i work in IT, but hey lucas knows better, get off your orange box it's getting boring at this stage and there you go again assuming you know what CCP are doing. why does everything have to be a conspiracy with you lucas.
pretty much done talking about this with you at this point, you believe whatever you want lucas. it matters not.
So do I and I have done for a long time. So are you claiming that paying someone to maintain older out of warranty hardware is not generally more expensive than maintaining new hardware? If you do, you're doing IT wrong. It's far cheaper to replace hardware from time to time. Also, since Valkyrie has multiplayer components, it will require new hardware, so now would be a good time to do it all together rather than have a mashup of old and new tech. It's not a conspiracy, it's just unlike you I don't assume that absolutely everything is good news for EVE-O.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4212 - 2016-01-26 14:54:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Beleive me when I say that the last thing I'd ever do is 'hang out' with someone like you. In a game or out of it.
Good. Off you trott then.

Jenn aSide wrote:
I challenge you to a test of game skill, since you have chosen to believe that I don't know what I am doing.
Except that would literally be jumping through hoops for you which I know you'd love as it gives you that feeling of power. Instead I'll just continue to point out that several years of daily gameplay is more than enough time to work out the best ways to do PvE multiple times over, and if you're still teaching yourself basic strategy, you are a slow learner. This is undeniable fact.

Jenn aSide wrote:
This isn't about change. You know that. This is about your preferences. EVE doesn't match your preferences, and you want that to change.

It matches mine (and as you can see, others posting here), even through all the evolution it's experienced since I started playing. That is the difference here, I like what EVE is, you have problems with major portions of it. After almost 9 years I'm still finding new stuff to do.
Of course it's about change. If it were just about my preferences, I'd be the only person with a problem with it. The fact is that games need to keep up with the markets. Yes there will always be junkies who stick around no matter what they do, but the health of the game isn't just down to retaining a tiny playerbase. Of course not all of it is the game changing and some of it is people's tastes changing, but it's still up to the developers to keep up with changing tastes. You're so resistant to change and so adamant that everyone else's opinions don't matter that you'd ride it all the way to the ground.

At the end of the day we both have opinions, and they differ. But I'm not going anywhere so get over it. I'm not going to get into yet another discussion (by discussion I mean of course me talking while you insult me) with you over whether or not you think my opinion counts.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Not anyone Kell. YOU.
Yeah yeah yeah, me and the other people you are constantly harassing through whatever it is they did that triggered you. At the end of the day the problem is yours. v0v

Jenn aSide wrote:
But you have issues brother and your views of EVE are useless.
Then don't respond to them. If my views are useless then ignore them as you claim CCP will.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4213 - 2016-01-26 14:59:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
IMO it's because replying to him feeds his victim complex, and I'm one of the most guilty of that. I'm honestly going to stop because I know that help for that kind of thing doesn't come from someone he doesn't know on the internet lol.

It's hard to do sometimes because you don't want people to think that what he is saying is true (it's not), but then I realized one thing. If anyone with any real power to affect things believes what people like that say, they themselves were hopeless to begin with lol.
Translation: His opinion doesn't match mine thus there must be something mentally wrong with him.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4214 - 2016-01-26 15:06:41 UTC
I have identified a change this forum needs. You can still see the posts of people you have on ignore when someone else quotes them lol.

Damn if Ralph wasn't right Big smile
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4215 - 2016-01-26 15:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Double post.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4216 - 2016-01-26 15:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
So you've actually blocked me this time? For real? Like not like last time, but actually blocked? So when I'm having reasonable discussions with other people I won't have you putting your nose in and insulting me for not having the same opinion as you? Excellent!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#4217 - 2016-01-26 15:32:30 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you've actually blocked me this time? For real? Like not like last time, but actually blocked? So when I'm having reasonable discussions with other people I won't have you putting your nose in and insulting me for not having the same opinion as you? Excellent!


Quoting for those who use the block feature.

NOMAD

Between Ignorance and Wisdom

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4218 - 2016-01-26 15:36:12 UTC
John E Normus wrote:

Quoting for those who use the block feature.

NOMAD


Confirmed, CODE are teh EVIL lol.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4219 - 2016-01-26 20:38:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you've actually blocked me this time? For real? Like not like last time, but actually blocked? So when I'm having reasonable discussions with other people I won't have you putting your nose in and insulting me for not having the same opinion as you? Excellent!


I would chalk this up as a victory.

Normally Jen would go on like Tippia as long as you replied, but you seem to broke her will to post.

Now if you can get Tippia to block you, that would be an achievement.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4220 - 2016-01-26 20:54:32 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you've actually blocked me this time? For real? Like not like last time, but actually blocked? So when I'm having reasonable discussions with other people I won't have you putting your nose in and insulting me for not having the same opinion as you? Excellent!


I would chalk this up as a victory.

Normally Jen would go on like Tippia as long as you replied, but you seem to broke her will to post.

Now if you can get Tippia to block you, that would be an achievement.


What is this, a meeting of the EVE hater's club?