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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#881 - 2016-01-21 16:03:53 UTC
Oovarvu wrote:
seems to me that the people who know that SP doesn't equal win will go on 'winning' and the people who think SP equals win will go on getting their asses stomped. you only have to watch Sutonia kicking ass in a month old character to understand this.

whatever this is it's not pay to win.

prediction: extractors 875 aur apiece



Skill Points don't equal winning
- except when T3 fleets clash & one side can afford to immediately re-ship its losses by injecting SP

Even at the lowest level of use the purchase of skill points can make a significant difference in a conflict -

Do you remember the Goon advert about the "one guy" who tackles the scout who gets killed who doesn’t provide good reconaissance etc etc...


How about the alliance that purchased the skill points
That allowed member alts to Pi
That allowed the buyback
For more materials
For the ship builder
Who Built more ships

That outnumbered you when you lost the war.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#882 - 2016-01-21 16:05:07 UTC
Yep, now we've resorted to parodying goon propaganda about rifters or something, that was parodying a hilarious slippery slope story.

Sigh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#883 - 2016-01-21 16:06:45 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
You know a feature completely fails when, after 44 pages of discussion, there are only 12 likes for the opening post.


13.

Forgot to vote! Sorry...

It's nothing personal but CCP Phantom doesn't have the same charisma as CCP Falcon or CCP Guard to be honest. He needs a remap.

Maybe just injecting Social V or Criminal Connections I-IV

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#884 - 2016-01-21 16:11:06 UTC
P2W with this goes beyond T3C immediate skill replacement on loss

F1 monkeys need no actual player skill. They click where they are told, they do what they are told. If you give them 100mil sp to fly everything in the game, they are just as effective as an eight year vet. Because their individual player skill matters next to nothing as long as they jump when told, lock when told and shoot when told.

Also it is P2W because now your logistics fleet can inject Jump Cal V immediately, they can inject all the jump skills for that matter. Making them better logistics pilots earlier.

Even middle of the road players with enough skill to play the game well, think 30-50mil sp now can use this to P2W. Imagine putting off the shield and armor skills and keeping them at IV so you can focus on other things. Now you can spec out your skills to V. You already have the knowledge of 3 years of pvp, but you have the skills of a beta player.

P2W doesn't mean day 1 first time player gets 100mil SP

P2W is much more likely that 3 year old die hard player gets to 100mil SP and gets the advantage over any other 3 year old player.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#885 - 2016-01-21 16:14:18 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
I should also point to the discussion we had up-thread about the impact on PLEX prices. According to it, I believe a low price for the extractors would mean a net drop in PLEX prices, whereas a higher price for the extractors would men a net rise. Basically it's a balance between more people needing PLEX as intermediary from ISK to AUR to buy extractors., and more people cashing in real money through PLEX for buying injectors. I wish I knew where the balance point is exactly, but I would bet that 2000 AUR would further drive PLEX price inflation. And that really is unhealthy for the game...

You completely ignore where the SP will be coming from in the long term. There will be a lot of specialized toons who don't need more training and will be PLEXed now because they can sell off the SP and buy another PLEX with the money.

I certainly will do this and I am sure a lot of other people will do this as well. Unsub all the specialized accounts and PLEX them with the ISK I get for the SP that get accumulated over the month. So this will drive PLEX prices up, A LOT since more people will use PLEX. I will create even more accounts and finance them this way if the injector pays the bill for the PLEX + extractor.

Since PLEX and the SP you sell are somewhat coupled there will not be a big problem for people who get their ISK this way. However if you want to actually train and still PLEX your char you will probably have to farm a lot more of that ISK to get one.

So what will this change actually do if new players actually do purchase PLEX to get SP? => Some newbie scrub will pay my subscription. Good job CCP, Didn't you sell this as something which helps new players? Guess that was just some F&I level argumentation we all know by now!

Evil RatKid
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#886 - 2016-01-21 16:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
More tearful defenders of newbies, always good to see that there's a counterbalance against people who are vocal against measures helping people who aren't here yet.

Remember:
have to
must
necessary
essential
critical
crucial
unskippable

only when the option is available, otherwise welp how did we survive before....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#887 - 2016-01-21 16:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Slightly untelated but also character based

"Injected" SKINs?


We should be able to extract those as well.

What's the use of an Aeon Khanid Skin for somebody who extracted the skills to fly an Aeon.

NPE – ISD – RIP
sixteen 64
1664.
#888 - 2016-01-21 16:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: sixteen 64
Accounts about to expire today, and its took me since the blog post to decide what to do

I only played for 2 years, I spent the first year flying frigates, personally I've enjoyed seeing my character progress slowly but surely and love the skill Q and eve.

I'm honestly surprised the sp for cash thing was ever even considered, it feels so un-eve like, there must be tons of way to make cash from the store without this.

Maybe if skins and clothes were cheaper they would have sold a lot more ( i spent zero £'s on skins in eve, yet I have over £300 spent on league of legends skins, to me that says a lot, ie: yours are over priced CCP)

No one likes a greedy guy and that's what you 're looking like

And personally I don't like cheap nasty F2P monetization tactics in my SUB based game

Not to mention what nasty tactic comes next after this has been milked and still not enough for you

Anyways, I'm not re-subbing, and voting with my wallet, not that I expect to make a difference, I just don't want to give you any more money as it suggest I support you and your horrid decisions.

(and no you cant have my stuffs! nor would I biomass on the off chance they change their minds(which is doubtful at this point Sad but one can hope)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#889 - 2016-01-21 16:28:05 UTC
And another unsubber.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#890 - 2016-01-21 16:43:47 UTC
Pay 2 Win.

/facepalm

/eyeroll

/le sigh....

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#891 - 2016-01-21 16:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Trade-able skill points are going to be a thing therefore this thread is just hot air and tears - I don't like it - but there's nothing I can do about it and I will not quit over it


My little act of protest will be to not pay: If I'm not paying then I may cease to care about the direction of the game.


I have two accounts both paid via credit card - I think there are many like me who don't mind paying subscriptions because they see it as supporting the game - Last night I added 17 PLEX to my accounts, both will expire in a year.

From now on I earn ISK just for PLEX to add game time.

If I don't dual train, farm SP, curb my ship collecting habits and provided there isn't rampant PLEX inflation - I should be able to let someone else pay for my game time for several years.


EDIT: There is a part of me that hopes for rampant PLEX inflation
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2016-01-21 17:36:49 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Slightly untelated but also character based

"Injected" SKINs?


We should be able to extract those as well.

What's the use of an Aeon Khanid Skin for somebody who extracted the skills to fly an Aeon.

Why? It's a welcome money sink.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Cixi
#893 - 2016-01-21 17:37:58 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Zeddrick Anthar wrote:
So you get 4 for a PLEX. My prediction is 2000 Aur apiece. Not an even multiple of what you get for a PLEX on purpose so you always have some AUR left over ...

If CCP wants to seriously annoy the supporters of skill trading, then a price point like that would make perfect sense...

Something like 10-20% "overhead costs" makes sense to me. The 500k SP are worth a quarter of a PLEX, or about 300M ISK at the moment. 10%-20% of that are 30-60M ISK, and that again is about 100-200 AUR.

I would consider 100 AUR nice, 200 AUR acceptable, 500 AUR at the pain threshold.

Anything more than that would be greedily stupid and stupidly greedy. If CCP were to price this at 2000 AUR, I would join the protesters - in spite of having been a strong supporter of this idea right from the start. That's just way out.

If CCP wants to have "bigger AUR chunks" in their shop, then they can offer the extractors in packs only (buy 10 for 1000 AUR). That's OK, since they will be tradable individually.

I should also point to the discussion we had up-thread about the impact on PLEX prices. According to it, I believe a low price for the extractors would mean a net drop in PLEX prices, whereas a higher price for the extractors would men a net rise. Basically it's a balance between more people needing PLEX as intermediary from ISK to AUR to buy extractors., and more people cashing in real money through PLEX for buying injectors. I wish I knew where the balance point is exactly, but I would bet that 2000 AUR would further drive PLEX price inflation. And that really is unhealthy for the game...


100Aur is never going to happen, it's a lot more probable that any extractor will be 0.5-0.75% of a plex
malaka katsika
Four Deadly Horsemen
#894 - 2016-01-21 17:38:47 UTC
So is there a way to make it so that you can re-apply your own skill points without penalty? maybe make the extractor dual purpose, extract for self or extract for market. Then it just moves the sp to your sp pool instead of the injector.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#895 - 2016-01-21 17:41:36 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
Pay 2 Win.

/facepalm
It may not actually be P2W, as repeatedly explained in detail all over the place. But sometimes the taste of something may be different to what it's actually made of. And what are extractors/injectors surely not? Vanity items.

Also, for some, this upcoming change may just be a welcome opportunity excuse to to turn the back on this game. The probably won't be missed but they also won't miss anything, I guess.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Denn
Loki's Ambassadors
#896 - 2016-01-21 17:42:55 UTC
I spent years training up the skill points I have. I put in the time of planning and training those skills. It gave me a sense of accomplishment. It set EVE apart from the other online games. Now with the new EVE skill points buy-o-matic you can purchase your way to the top. CCP will make some money....but they lost their soul.
Amanda Orion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#897 - 2016-01-21 17:49:49 UTC
Denn wrote:
I spent years training up the skill points I have. I put in the time of planning and training those skills. It gave me a sense of accomplishment. It set EVE apart from the other online games. Now with the new EVE skill points buy-o-matic you can purchase your way to the top. CCP will make some money....but they lost their soul.



That's OK, they were not using it :p
Almeisa Reimhilde
#898 - 2016-01-21 18:13:20 UTC
I'm hoping that anything related to the changes in character attributes/skill shall have repercussions, and not an easy use. If the amount of skill points injected to a certain character can be limited annually to about 12M only, with a limitation of 1M/month, then it may somehow be used in moderation.

Or perhaps, a character can have an injection of beyond 1M skill points in a month but with a percentage of success, maybe from 500k sp, the character was only able to learn 50k to 100k sp. On a harsher penalty, over-injecting may hit a negative effect instead, decreasing the last sp injected due to overdose P

just a thought anyway Smile
Jester Chanlin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#899 - 2016-01-21 18:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jester Chanlin
Whats wrong with giving noobs a pool of 1-5mil SP from the start of the game and also give all players in eve the same amount. Or even having the tutorials give them parts of the 'free noob SP' as they complete tasks.

I'll be for sure using this service when it goes live as I'm a 45mil SP player and could afford such. I don't see the option to buy SP being attractive or beneficial to a new player.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#900 - 2016-01-21 18:31:06 UTC
This is more of a question

If you remove some skills that are prerequisites for other skills what is going to happen? Will ships become unflyable? How is CCP going to balance that with other changes that they have made in the past where "if you could fly it in the past you can fly it in the future" even though you no longer had all the skills required?

Will it prevent you from removing skills that are prerequisites?

As for this idea in general - I am not entirely opposed to it, however I do see that those with unlimited resources both in game and out of game are going to be able to use this. I particularly see that this will be abused by those larger null sec entities who have access to unlimited in game resources and can divert those resources into purchasing these things off the market.

I suspect that there are those who are already trying to figure out how to best abuse this and CCP has not thought through how many ways this will be abused.

~R~