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1.) Perhaps you could direct us all to the insider economic information you possess which shows that CCP is failing and must implement changes that belie one of this game's most fundamental principles for its very survival. In one breath you chastise the game's veterans for being passionate and in the next you state the sky really "is" falling. Make up your mind.



2.) If, as you claim, you had indeed read the entirety of this thread, you would already know that comparisons between the Bazaar and SP-trading are either misguided or deliberately obtuse. The consequences for using the Bazaar are built into the system. You cannot order a custom toon with the skills & experience you would prefer but instead are forced to adopt someone else's used character - and the name, employment history & contract history that comes along with it. Those consequences are significant. With SP-trading there are zero consequences. None. It is 100% current character PTW and nothing like it has ever been proposed before. I mean, wth, if I care about this game and I'm not supposed to get excited about this - when, exactly, is it going to be time? This isn't boiling the frog - this is throwing the frog in the microwave.



3.) There you go... CCP is on the verge of death again. Gotta respect that bottom line. I guess using this logic, we should accept all proposed changes to the game without comment - as they all must be mandatory and all necessary for CCP's very survival. Hell, disband the CSM if CCP's decisions are all about survival and player opinions are irrelevant.



4.) In what way will changing EVE to appease "casual gamers" benefit the current playerbase? By definition, they WONT BE HERE all that much.




Look, that folks (on either side of any given issue) are passionate about the game is a good thing. A healthy debate is beneficial to quality control - not the other way around. So, calling subscribers ignorant, naïve, thick headed, jackoff, scrubtards is maybe just a little counterproductive & makes one dismissive of everything you wrote.

On one hand, I'm excited as hell about citadels and looking forward to the direction the game is heading. But at the same time, I'm getting slapped in the face and told I'm stupid. Guess what? I don't like that ****. So I'm going to let CCP know that I don't like that **** because that's the definition of feedback.

YK

Some of us said at the time when the Character Bazaar and PLEX were mooted that they were the thin end of the wedge and so it has come to pass.

You mentioned that you are a business man in real life, so I am sure that you are also aware that a step like cash for skill points may well turn out to be a giant step in the wrong direction in terms of long term future income for CCP.

'Think twice, act once' and all that class of thing.

My gut feeling is that CCP know this is not a good move for Eve Online, but that they are doing it to generate cash to fund Valkrie and other future projects.

I'm sorry, is it the words I use that offend or the fact that I am showing the absurdity of the flat earther comments being thrown down by the detractors? Critical thinking is typically just that...critical.[/quote]

Donald J Trump...is that you?

Why do you feel these "consequences" are necessary when it comes to purchasing a character from the Bazaar?

And you don't even have to earn the ISK to do it - just rack it up on a credit card

- but you know - It's not REALLY pay to win
- cause you know - the skill points were earned by characters at the normal progression rate
- well except multiple training
- But you know - MCT that's not P2W cause it's all on the same account
- cause you know - it's not like you will be able to transfer or sell them
- But you know - you could have already bought each alliance member a Capital pilot at the Bazaar
- cause you know - the Bazaar is pay to win as well
- but you know - adding more pay to win things won't hurt .
- cause you know - when they introduced PLEX you could then buy anything with cash
- well everything except skill points
- cause you know - buying PLEX was pay to win - well apart from skill points t
- so - you know - lets let them also buy SP
- cause - you know - they couldn't buy skill points before
- and you know - skill points were the only thing they couldn't buy
- and - now they can

- but its OK - cause before you get to be called pay to win you would have to be able to buy everything in the game using a credit card.

All that really says nothing regarding why SP should be something you can't buy, whether purely with in game effort or with a CC through PLEX. Ironically though, it's the existence of PLEX, not SP trading itself, that makes a CC an option. Yet no one sees an issue with that.

But really though, if SP isn't winning, as we've been endlessly told over and over by this same community every time an SP related idea is proposed by the players, why is this even remotely a big deal?

Actually, The hundreds of replies didn't have a strait answer despite being directly asked by me several times. Plenty of outrage and indignation, but no justification of how SP is both not important enough to consider worth granting because everyone can get by without it, yet so important that it can't be granted or traded. Presumably there should be some actual consequence right? What is it? People having more SP itself doesn't mean anything without leading to some other consequence.

We've yet to get that far.

I think that's a really good point. Being able to buy SP with ISK isn't "pay to win" (or "pay to have an advantage" or "pay to anything.") Being able to buy a 100m SP toon with ISK isn't p2w. Being able to buy a high-grade slave set isn't p2w.

The only thing that is perhaps p2w is being able to buy PLEX with real-world money. Which has been a feature of EVE for a good while, and has, IMO, generally been a very positive aspect of the game. Yes, it means a week-old player can purchase a Titan pilot and a Titan to go with it for several thousand dollarydoos, or an officer fit Raven Navy - but so what? They don't win the game that way. It doesn't invalidate the accomplishments of those of us who have built up our wallets through honorable ratting or scamming or embezzling alliance assets. Nor does a week-old player purchasing 30 million SP invalidate the SP of those of us who have trained at 2700 SP/hr.



It's correct that SP isn't winning - rather, SP is the barrier to widening the range of in-game activities available. I can fly a Domi, but not an Apoc or Raven. I would like to - not because it gives me an advantage towards winning EVE, but because it gives me an expanded engagement envelope within which I can play.

I'm starting to be less upset about this.

The character Bazaar already allows a new player to get the SP of an old player. Although they'll end up paying something like a thousand dollars of real money to get a really old one.

If the skill extractors are sufficiently expensive in Aur, I think things will continue to stay balanced. The only downside is that a character only needs 5 mil sp to start extracting skill points. This could lead to people subbing alts to use as "skill farms".

If you can afford the extractors, and don't mind subbing multiple accounts, you could progress up the skill tree very fast indeed. With three alts, you'd be moving at 4x the normal skill pace essentially.

That basically hints on the issue I have with opposing this. Would the game suffer detriment if, whether through earning the isk yourself or buying the efforts of those who did through PLEX (since for all intents we've effectively accepted that), you could fly an Apoc or Raven tomorrow? If so how?