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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Inevitability
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2016-01-18 16:46:48 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OK, My question is simple.

After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.

I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.

Please answer this CCP.

This.
CCP Cognac
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2016-01-18 16:48:44 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
CCP Cognac wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Can a player remove skill points from any skill?

For example, I have Caldari Carrier to level 5. But the prerequisite is Battleship level 5, can I remove my Battleship skills and still be able to fly a Carrier?

Also, if I remove skill points from...lets say Gallente Frigate, so there's 0 SP there, can I remove the skill? If so, do I get the skillbook back?


Prereq skills can not be extracted. The will be represented with a lock icon like you can see on this picture.

[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68915/1/Skill_trading_training.png[/img]

as soon as the advanced skills have been extracted the former prereq skill will be open for extraction.

As of now there are no plans to remove skill books when extraction takes you to 0.

This will mean that we will need to do some changes to skill training which will hopefully also allow you to inject skill books you don't have the prereqs instead of having to haul them around waiting for that prereq to finish(no promises this will be available on realease).

So, let's pretend I'm a sub 5 Million SP character. I've managed /somehow/ to get Caldari Carrier 1, now I have no SP in Caldari Carrier. I can remove the SP from my Caldari Battleship so that's 0 SP and apply the whole 500,000 SP to Caldari Carrier? Thus negating the prerequisite skills needed to fly a Carrier. Therefore having a low SP character focused for one thing.

In this case, I should have to remove the Caldari Carrier skill BEFORE I can remove the Caldari Battleship SP.


You wont be able to apply skillpoints to skills you don't have the prereqs for.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#83 - 2016-01-18 16:48:46 UTC
Hendrink Collie wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.


Feels good though Smile

I'm pretty kin about this new chapter in EVE. I don't really understand the whole "it will hurt/kill the newbro" perspective. For some reason that view point comes up every time, no matter how much or little it affects that particular segment. One thing I would like; however, is perhaps having the ability to see how many skill points a particular character has. It would be disheartening for an actual newbro to get into a duel with someone around the same toon age, but they have 20m+ for skillpoints. Smile


I doubt it comes up every time.

How can you not understand it when you point out one of the problems in the same post?
Jektal
Embers of Virtue
#84 - 2016-01-18 16:49:14 UTC
My concerns:


  1. For a new player wanting to maximize their training speed, the correct thing to do is buy 10 of these and immediately train to 5 million SP. That would be prohibitively expensive for most people, but it gets you much farther ahead in the game.
  2. If I'm paying for multiple character training, I can now significantly boost my main's training by buying a Skill Extractor every month or so, taking 500k SP out of each secondary character, re-scheduling 500k of 1x/2x skills, and then cashing in those 150-400k SP (x however many characters are farming SP) on my main. Also prohibitively expensive for most people, but for those who can afford it there's no cap.


I'd much rather just see new players start out with 5 million SP and call it a day. At the very least I'd like to see the cash-in penalties more in line with:


  • < 5 million total skillpoints = 500,000 skillpoints per injector
  • 5 million – 20 million total skillpoints = 300,000 skillpoints per injector
  • 20 million – 50 million total skillpoints = 150,000 skillpoints per injector
  • 50 million – 80 million total skillpoints = 50,000 skillpoints per injector
  • > 80 million skillpoints = 0 skillpoints per injector


I've been paying an Eve subscription for a few years and am sitting around 50 million SP; this just feels like a slap in the face.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#85 - 2016-01-18 16:50:53 UTC
CCP Cognac wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
CCP Cognac wrote:
Mai Khumm wrote:
Can a player remove skill points from any skill?

For example, I have Caldari Carrier to level 5. But the prerequisite is Battleship level 5, can I remove my Battleship skills and still be able to fly a Carrier?

Also, if I remove skill points from...lets say Gallente Frigate, so there's 0 SP there, can I remove the skill? If so, do I get the skillbook back?


Prereq skills can not be extracted. The will be represented with a lock icon like you can see on this picture.

[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68915/1/Skill_trading_training.png[/img]

as soon as the advanced skills have been extracted the former prereq skill will be open for extraction.

As of now there are no plans to remove skill books when extraction takes you to 0.

This will mean that we will need to do some changes to skill training which will hopefully also allow you to inject skill books you don't have the prereqs instead of having to haul them around waiting for that prereq to finish(no promises this will be available on realease).

So, let's pretend I'm a sub 5 Million SP character. I've managed /somehow/ to get Caldari Carrier 1, now I have no SP in Caldari Carrier. I can remove the SP from my Caldari Battleship so that's 0 SP and apply the whole 500,000 SP to Caldari Carrier? Thus negating the prerequisite skills needed to fly a Carrier. Therefore having a low SP character focused for one thing.

In this case, I should have to remove the Caldari Carrier skill BEFORE I can remove the Caldari Battleship SP.


You wont be able to apply skillpoints to skills you don't have the prereqs for.

OK, that's good... Thanks for clearing that up!

We also should be able to remove skill books aswell. My OCD doesn't like non lvl 5 skills on my character sheet... I'll be driven insane!
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2016-01-18 16:51:02 UTC
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?


You never made an alt?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#87 - 2016-01-18 16:51:35 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.


I guess you were in the minority that thought this was a good idea.

I do agree that it is a fantastic idea. I don't agree that my opinion represents the minority opinion.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Shinzann
Beast Cat Industries
#88 - 2016-01-18 16:52:18 UTC
This idea rubbed me the wrong way the first time it was suggested. Even though we already have skill point trading in the form of the character bazaar, this idea still rubs me the wrong way.

It probably has some thing to do with cheapening the effort that I put into training skills over the years.

But since CCP has already decided to go ahead with this idea, it's apparent that alienating the older player base is less important than pandering to the impatient newbros.
Aerious
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2016-01-18 16:52:42 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?


You never made an alt?



I have an alt, it's useless for him too at over 150m sp

"They worried we would eventually offer not just vanity items, but ones that would give the Haves an unfair advantage over the Have-Nots."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#90 - 2016-01-18 16:52:46 UTC
People are really obsessed with the SP gain at the highest SP brackets.

Well, if it changes from 150k to 250k next time, I'll be quite amused.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2016-01-18 16:53:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Obil Que wrote:

Current:

Sorry Tommy, you can't play with us because you don't have X skill. Please wait [insert long wait time here] before you can come play with the big boys. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars buying PLEX to buy a character and give up your current character.

Future:

Hey Tommy, come play with us. Here's some SP to get you started. If you need more, you can get a jump start with a PLEX or two if you want to skip a couple weeks or a month of waiting.

Future Tommy seems to have better options...


That's exactly how drug pushers work, 'Tell you what I'll do I'll make the first one free, when you want some more just come back to me...'

Is this what it comes down to, making our newbies dependent on our space state?

Oh so you're saving them huh. I see...

What are you complaining about? Your support for this rubbish of a mechanic is what makes our newbies dependent on their credit card, not on how they play.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2016-01-18 16:54:14 UTC
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.


I guess you were in the minority that thought this was a good idea.

I do agree that it is a fantastic idea. I don't agree that my opinion represents the minority opinion.

It's ok, CCP agrees. And they had 300 pages of the same repeated posts worth of data too.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#93 - 2016-01-18 16:55:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What are you complaining about? Your support for this rubbish of a mechanic is what makes our newbies dependent on their credit card, not on how they play.

Your newbies?

But I thought it was about our newbies?

How many newbies are you getting?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#94 - 2016-01-18 16:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
300,000 SP per injector in the 50m-80m bracket is a bit too steep. Bump it up to 400k at least. That's the bracket which is going to have your #1 skill packet consumer. Put a hard 0% utilisation at around 100m SP and it's all good.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2016-01-18 16:57:34 UTC
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?

None.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of these sorts in the game.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2016-01-18 16:59:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?

None.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of these sorts in the game.

Oh snap, eliteSP, the natural progression of elitePVP having SP minimums.

Until a while ago I couldn't parachute to NC. as I didn't have their 30mil SP minimum,

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arya Ikahrus
#97 - 2016-01-18 16:59:14 UTC
I thought it was bad when it was first announced and I still think it's bad.
imgoingtodye
Doomheim
#98 - 2016-01-18 16:59:36 UTC
Is their going to be a limit on mount you can take from a player skills? Say I have a 55m toon how far can I suck him dye before I can longer able too?Twisted
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2016-01-18 17:02:17 UTC
Querns wrote:
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?

None.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of these sorts in the game.


And they are most likely heavily invested in continuing to play anyway so they won't care about this change. I doubt that many older players ( 2-3 years +) would quit over this since they are already invested in the game and play because they like it above other games. This mechanic will simply milk new players for more RL cash and benefit very space rich older players.

Note that I do not consider a new player paying however much for the PLEX to buy SP up to the entry point for a bigger alliance to be a benefit to them.
Valterra Craven
#100 - 2016-01-18 17:02:36 UTC
Well I can hope beyond reason CCP will see this and consider it, but my guess is going to be not likely.

One of the ways in which I think you should change this for the vets is you remove the restrictions on sp incoming if you've had sp outgoing.

For example. Lets say I'm 120mil sp. Over the years CCP has made a lot of changes to skills over time that are regarded not nearly as important as they once were and now I have *useless* (to me) sp. I'd love to be able to move that SP to other skills.

So lets say I do one extraction for 500k sp. I'm then allowed to buy an injector and use the full 500k. However, the next injector I bought would still be liable for the 150k amount.

If you want you could even subject this to certain limits, like I could only *move* 2mil sp a year like that etc.

Player is still paying market costs etc and CCP still gets its share. Otherwise will be a nice feature for noobs, something else I'm not ever going to use as a bitter vet with 3 chars above 120mil sp.