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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3721 - 2016-01-14 13:29:14 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Because average Joe certainly CAN get much better results at a gatecamp in ED.


If this is true, it means that Elite is a truly crappy game designed more to stoke egos than present a good , deep, challenging game play experience.




You could be describing EVE there, other than the fact you mentioned Elite.

So game camps in EVE are due to crappy game design, wouldn't argue with that.




I've always wondered about this hatred of gate camps. I've seen it my whole EVE life, I've lost a few ships to camps, even a transport with close to a bil worth of stuff in it.

But they are super defeat-able if you just bring some friends along, or in the right circumstances people have broken gate camps on their own (many solo gate camp breaking videos on youtube), or used ships/methods to get past them easily. And CCP has added all these "gate camp avoidance tools" like jump drives, jump portals, wormholes, jump clones etc.

And yet people still complain about them? How many ways around (and through) something does one have to be gifted before they stop complaining about a thing?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3722 - 2016-01-14 13:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
wow 3 different battleship doctrines as a new player? what corp has 3 different battleship doctrines with nothing for a low sp player to fly while training into the battleships? you are stupid here, cant be bothered to find a decent corp then tell people you need 100mil sp to be useful in a corp, sorry you dont and those sort of comments are the things which put people off the game because they think they dont have a chance when every player can be useful in a corp with low sp.

Well explain your reasoning then, ive explained new players can jump in ewar frigs, be tackle and scouts with low sp so you tell me how they cant be useful with under 100mil sp and how you cant find a decent corp instead of spouting negativity.


Are you telling me that a brand new player will have the same opportunities as a 5 year vet?


No. And nor should they. Someone who's invested 5 years into the game has made their own opportunities, and earned their reputation. A new person has some work to do, as we all did.

And for what it's worth, the poop flinging from both of you is about as impressive as a monkey doing it, only marginally less amusing.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Avvy
Doomheim
#3723 - 2016-01-14 13:36:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

do some research, check killboards, monitor the activity for your timezone, ask questions, dont move stuff to the home system till you are sure activity is pretty good, take part in a fleet before moving to see how they are. you aint tied into a corp you are free to leave whenever you want



You're not tied into a corp., but if you keep changing corps looking for one that you find good. You may actually start to find it harder, thanks to your employment record.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3724 - 2016-01-14 13:40:11 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
wow 3 different battleship doctrines as a new player? what corp has 3 different battleship doctrines with nothing for a low sp player to fly while training into the battleships? you are stupid here, cant be bothered to find a decent corp then tell people you need 100mil sp to be useful in a corp, sorry you dont and those sort of comments are the things which put people off the game because they think they dont have a chance when every player can be useful in a corp with low sp.

Well explain your reasoning then, ive explained new players can jump in ewar frigs, be tackle and scouts with low sp so you tell me how they cant be useful with under 100mil sp and how you cant find a decent corp instead of spouting negativity.


Are you telling me that a brand new player will have the same opportunities as a 5 year vet?


No. And nor should they. Someone who's invested 5 years into the game has made their own opportunities, and earned their reputation. A new person has some work to do, as we all did.


But but, if we don't make people equal to everyone else on day one, they will quit and EVe will die at some point in the next 30-50 years!

I'm being sarcastic here but many people actually think that way. It's something that I can't wrap my mind around, I knew when i came in in 2007 that I would never 'catch up' to 2003-6 players, but so what. I try other MMOs and read about them and I swear I cringe a bit when I run into words like 'gated content' and 'attunements' and 'catch up mechanics".

One of the best things about EVE is that none of that crap matters here.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3725 - 2016-01-14 13:43:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
King Aires wrote:
I love all the people asking certain "groups" of people to give up 10 years or more worth of hard work, monetary investment, time investment and mental investment because today there is a game out that does a better job of what they were looking for 10 years ago.

Some people want a return on investment for that 15 bucks they spend every month per account and the thousands of hours worth of training skills they have accumulated.

It would be like telling a person to just give up their home to some homeless guy even though they have it half paid off just because there is a bigger house down the street.


This is the very best (worst) example of entitlement thinking I've seen here. That 15 bucks a month is a FEE FOR ACCESS. If CCP gave you 30 days of gametime for that 15 bucks, they don't owe you or anyone else a damn thing extra. Paying the entry/access fee doesn't make you a share holder.

As for other games, the issue is clear, Why should THIS game devolve into the mushy sameness of some other game, when the people who like that kind of game can just go play it, while the people who like this type of game can continue to enjoy it? Why turn chess into checkers when you could jsut go play checkers and be happy and let us be happy with chess?

It's really a case of "have your cake and eat it too". The people who subscribe to this insane way of thinking don't like EVE (and probably never did but played because 'it has potential') as much as some other game, but that also don't want to give up their 'investment' (that was never an investment to begin with) in EVE. So to them, the obvious best course is to get the owners of EVE to transform the game into a clone of the game they actually enjoy. And screw everyone who likes the original games apparently.

So sorry, but I don't feel like losing a cool, unique Spaceship Captain's game because some of you prefer playing mindless jet fighters in space but refuse to go play the jet fighter game.


The only entitled way of thinking here is yours, in that you think it is your game and it should be played your way. You refuse to adapt or change therefore you ask others to leave so they can't influence development in a direction you don't improve.

You are displaying classic single-child syndrome after mommy remarries and he suddenly has step-siblings. You also remind me of the detectives in Making a Murder, planting evidence where there isn't any and lying at all costs to get the results you want.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3726 - 2016-01-14 13:46:27 UTC
King Aires wrote:


You are displaying ...


Imma have to stop you there. If you're gonna turn this into an online psychoanalytical session, I'm pretty sure unsolicited services are against the forum rules. I think he's gonna wanna see your qualifications too before handing over any money. GG.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#3727 - 2016-01-14 13:46:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
But but, if we don't make people equal to everyone else on day one, they will quit and EVe will die at some point in the next 30-50 years!

I'm being sarcastic here but many people actually think that way. It's something that I can't wrap my mind around, I knew when i came in in 2007 that I would never 'catch up' to 2003-6 players, but so what. I try other MMOs and read about them and I swear I cringe a bit when I run into words like 'gated content' and 'attunements' and 'catch up mechanics".

One of the best things about EVE is that none of that crap matters here.


Actually, there is a point at which you will catch up in usefulness to someone who started years before you. The longest wait is till you have all the basic support skills. Afterwards, if you have trained the current most popular ships, you'd be set. Anything extra you train would be just patch-proofing yourself. Not to mention that it takes a very short time once you've gotten past the initial hurdle. IE, crosstraining medium guns takes 2 weeks per piece.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3728 - 2016-01-14 13:49:40 UTC
^^^

Catching up to older players is definitely possible, even where reputation is concerned. There are only so many people at any given time that can know who you are, just as there are only ever so many skill points.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3729 - 2016-01-14 13:50:17 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
But but, if we don't make people equal to everyone else on day one, they will quit and EVe will die at some point in the next 30-50 years!

I'm being sarcastic here but many people actually think that way. It's something that I can't wrap my mind around, I knew when i came in in 2007 that I would never 'catch up' to 2003-6 players, but so what. I try other MMOs and read about them and I swear I cringe a bit when I run into words like 'gated content' and 'attunements' and 'catch up mechanics".

One of the best things about EVE is that none of that crap matters here.


Actually, there is a point at which you will catch up in usefulness to someone who started years before you. The longest wait is till you have all the basic support skills. Afterwards, if you have trained the current most popular ships, you'd be set. Anything extra you train would be just patch-proofing yourself. Not to mention that it takes a very short time once you've gotten past the initial hurdle. IE, crosstraining medium guns takes 2 weeks per piece.


I know, thus the sentence "One of the best things about EVE is that none of that crap matters here."
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3730 - 2016-01-14 13:56:28 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
King Aires wrote:


You are displaying ...


Imma have to stop you there. If you're gonna turn this into an online psychoanalytical session, I'm pretty sure unsolicited services are against the forum rules. I think he's gonna wanna see your qualifications too before handing over any money. GG.


Funny, never seen Jenn banned for doing just that, in every thread ever he posted in. Roll
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#3731 - 2016-01-14 13:56:56 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Go and take a look at how many copies of X-Rebirth were sold, and how many people are still playing it. Then look me in the eyes tell me there's a correlation.


You tell me. I'm not your errand boy.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3732 - 2016-01-14 13:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Jenn aSide wrote:
I've always wondered about this hatred of gate camps. I've seen it my whole EVE life, I've lost a few ships to camps, even a transport with close to a bil worth of stuff in it.

But they are super defeat-able if you just bring some friends along, or in the right circumstances people have broken gate camps on their own (many solo gate camp breaking videos on youtube), or used ships/methods to get past them easily. And CCP has added all these "gate camp avoidance tools" like jump drives, jump portals, wormholes, jump clones etc.

And yet people still complain about them? How many ways around (and through) something does one have to be gifted before they stop complaining about a thing?
Live in England. Best gatecamp defense.

Jenn aSide wrote:
But but, if we don't make people equal to everyone else on day one, they will quit and EVe will die at some point in the next 30-50 years!

I'm being sarcastic here but many people actually think that way. It's something that I can't wrap my mind around, I knew when i came in in 2007 that I would never 'catch up' to 2003-6 players, but so what. I try other MMOs and read about them and I swear I cringe a bit when I run into words like 'gated content' and 'attunements' and 'catch up mechanics".

One of the best things about EVE is that none of that crap matters here.
while I don't agree with some of the dumb ideas about catchup mechanics, if there were no changes to bring newbies up to equal footing with veterans, the gap will only grow wider. Catchup mechanics are generally to keep the time-to-endgame static, rather than shrink it which is what people tend to miss when they make wild demands here. CCP have sped up mechanics in the past though to keep newbies from falling too far behind and I imagine they will continue to do so as time goes on.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#3733 - 2016-01-14 14:02:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Live in England. Best gatecamp defense.


The majority of Europe has top-tier pings. I'm GMT+3 and my ping varies between 40 and 50. That's more than enough to catch anything.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3734 - 2016-01-14 14:02:45 UTC
King Aires wrote:


The only entitled way of thinking here is yours, in that you think it is your game and it should be played your way. You refuse to adapt or change therefore you ask others to leave so they can't influence development in a direction you don't improve.


Influence development? rofl, no one influences CCP.

I don't care if people leave or stay. I'm saying it's STUPID to stay in a game you don't like rather than playing one you do like. What's worse is that, in addition to not playing the game you like, you beg for the makers of the game to change the one you don't like into a clone of the ohter, for the utterly and unforgivably selfish reason that you've 'invested' in the game you no longer (or never did) care for.

It's your money/time so do with it as you please. But that doesn't stop what your doing from being all kinds of dumb.

Quote:

You are displaying classic single-child syndrome after mommy remarries and he suddenly has step-siblings. You also remind me of the detectives in Making a Murder, planting evidence where there isn't any and lying at all costs to get the results you want.


The irritating thing about selfish people is that they think everyone is like them. Holding the opinion that a game should change simply for changes sake, or worse, because a person likes another game but doesn't want to give up their imaginary 'investment' in another, that's the thinking that is bad and selfish.

Wanting a thing to remain at least somewhat what it is isn't selfish , it's common sense. Some evolution is inevitable, but there is no need to throw out all good things for the sake of reckless change. People should adapt themselves to the game, not expect the game to turn into something else just because they want it to.
Avvy
Doomheim
#3735 - 2016-01-14 14:03:50 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
[do some research, check killboards, monitor the activity for your timezone, ask questions, dont move stuff to the home system till you are sure activity is pretty good, take part in a fleet before moving to see how they are. you aint tied into a corp you are free to leave whenever you want


The example of the corp. I gave was the same time zone as myself. It's just they hadn't removed the character names of those that weren't playing any longer. Probably because it sounds better if they say they have over 100 players in corp. I guess their argument is, they're not kicking them from corp. as they may be back.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3736 - 2016-01-14 14:04:14 UTC
King Aires wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
King Aires wrote:


You are displaying ...


Imma have to stop you there. If you're gonna turn this into an online psychoanalytical session, I'm pretty sure unsolicited services are against the forum rules. I think he's gonna wanna see your qualifications too before handing over any money. GG.


Funny, never seen Jenn banned for doing just that, in every thread ever he posted in. Roll


That's because when I do it I'm actually telling the truth.

BTW, is this the part where we all pretend that we don't know who you are?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3737 - 2016-01-14 14:08:05 UTC
King Aires wrote:
The only entitled way of thinking here is yours, in that you think it is your game and it should be played your way. You refuse to adapt or change therefore you ask others to leave so they can't influence development in a direction you don't improve.
This is incredibly true. There are a number of frequent posters that display this "my way or the highway" attitude while having absolutely nothing to do with the development of the game. They get so mad that other people dare to have opinions. Just stand your ground and they usually get bored.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3738 - 2016-01-14 14:13:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
King Aires wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
King Aires wrote:


You are displaying ...


Imma have to stop you there. If you're gonna turn this into an online psychoanalytical session, I'm pretty sure unsolicited services are against the forum rules. I think he's gonna wanna see your qualifications too before handing over any money. GG.


Funny, never seen Jenn banned for doing just that, in every thread ever he posted in. Roll


That's because when I do it I'm actually telling the truth.

BTW, is this the part where we all pretend that we don't know who you are?


Pretend? This is my main, I am in MoA, I have been playing since 2007 and I live in Detroit.

What kind of stalkingish question are you asking here?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3739 - 2016-01-14 14:14:05 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Go and take a look at how many copies of X-Rebirth were sold, and how many people are still playing it. Then look me in the eyes tell me there's a correlation.


You tell me. I'm not your errand boy.


And I'm not your teacher, but basically, you pulled a correlation fallacy. I play Elite Dangerous and enjoy it, but I'm here to tell you that out of all those copies that were sold? Not everyone is playing it.

Lots of people were excited for X-Rebirth. We had high expectations. We got a broken console port. The game went from everyone playing it to about a hundred people playing it overnight, and the day after that, less than a hundred. It never picked up after that.

This is the danger of hype, and the danger of thinking that popularity = quality. It doesn't, popularity only measures how many people fell for the hype, not how many of those people were disappointed after their purchase.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Avvy
Doomheim
#3740 - 2016-01-14 14:14:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
King Aires wrote:
The only entitled way of thinking here is yours, in that you think it is your game and it should be played your way. You refuse to adapt or change therefore you ask others to leave so they can't influence development in a direction you don't improve.
This is incredibly true. There are a number of frequent posters that display this "my way or the highway" attitude while having absolutely nothing to do with the development of the game. They get so mad that other people dare to have opinions. Just stand your ground and they usually get bored.



That's kind of normal really.

If someone likes something enough, they will have a tendency to try to protect it as it is.

Plus seeing what changes have done to some other MMOs, it just reinforces that reasoning.