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a) So your response is to ignore the concept of incentive and growing capabilities to earn? I'm talking about the peak because that's what makes sense to talk about. The average without a particular incentive to earn should be expected to be less than that with that incentive to earn. Regarding being expensive, who ever argued it wouldn't be?

b) You're making an assumption about the nature of an SP purchase, specifically that it hold root in dissatisfaction in SP/hour specifically. I see no reason for that to hold true considering the point of gaining SP has little to do with the number itself and a great deal to do with ability and flexibility. At the point where those are had the desire to buy SP should diminish.

Also we've already demonstrated that the flat denial of identification isn't true because TSP creates a means to associate action with identity through accelerated training in ways the game currently does not support.

e) The price actually drives the value of the incentive rather than diminishing it. Also SRP isn't as boolean as you're making it sound. Corps distinguish themselves on what they reimburse and under what circumstances. And while the ability to sell items is true, that's on the org to police. And with full api's being a common requirement policing TSP usage is already enabled through verifying skills.

Most importantly though, nothing here actually justifies the idea that TSP can't or won't function as stated, rather it just supports it further since intentional misuse of a corps goodwill is still incentivized.

g) You're actually the one having an issue here. Unless the extractor is a significant part of the cost there is plenty of room for incoming PLEX with the intent of covering the total cost of TSP to overcome that which is sunk due to this system.

h) ROI holds no issue with any part of my expectations, if you think it does you should probably explain further.

m) No, you're overlooking a market fact, that RL plex purchases are driven by need for isk, and this generates need for isk which is only partially tied to PLEX at an unknown ratio. If the amount consumed by extractors is insignificant compared to the total is cost of TSP that creates a driver to inject PLEX at a rate higher than the drive to consume it.

Now, yes, that could be wrong because no one wants to spend real money on it. But that essentially negates the issue of real money "abuse" for the system.

n) "As i said, i wanted to define reputation in order to avoid your empty walls of text. I gave you definitions, you did not confirm or agree with any of them. Because if you would then you would admit that young players cannot have real reputation, their circle of influence in every possible term is way to small to be able to cause any major loss and get bad reputation." - We actually did discuss the nature of reputation and the fact that players are unknowns, that characters carry reputations, and that's why inheriting characters causes the reputation to be inherited. What we did agree on is that new players don't have reputation through their own characters, but again I stated that this exasperates rather than diminishes the issue. I can only guess that your playing the opposing angle that an unknown rep is somehow as bad as a known bad rep.

The funny thing with that is it negates the argument that Bazaar purchased players are counterbalanced by their prior reputations since you're arguing here that those have no effect.

"And if they are not capable of checking chars history before buying it and eventually buy it and cry over it later I can only tell them "Welcome to Eve". This is not simcity." - I'm not even familiar enough with simcity to even assume what you might be getting at here. Besides that, see below:

"Reprocessing "harmful" characters and selling them TSP is not a plus. Eve is about choices and consequences, if you want to make it hello kitty online that just shows that this game aint really for you." - It really is, since a game involving the concept of consequence should actually have consequence rather than incentivize shifting it for profit.

"You did not fall into "side effects" appeal since you did not provide counter argument for a single one I mentioned. Walls of text are not going to hide it." - This is BS, we had this conversation before. Stop pretending it wasn't addressed.

So the question at hand now is whether being top SP is a legal entitlement from tenure based on a statement that makes no such assertion?

Further it's been demonstrated that if indeed you believe this statement to be legally binding in any sense you should have stopped giving CCP money and pursued legal options long ago as, in the manner you would have it interpreted, those words are fundamentally untrue now.

The fact that people have various reasons to tolerate that doesn't change the truth of the matter.

But, Where do they hide the specials ?

You Know the special toons,

The ones for sale with the extra skill points you said I could "already buy", the ones not constrained by time/subs or did I miss the 6 month old fully skilled carrier pilot?

Relevant parts emphasized. As stated, this was purely comprehension failure on your part. I mentioned no means to buy SP for a specific character and greed when you stated there weren't any.

All-righty then
So you are AGAINST buying SP for a specific character but OK with buying one whole to replace one you already have.

but I still want you to tell me where the SP I can already buy are instead of blabbering around with all these red herrings

When I said you couldn't , you replied with "you can already do that" then blabbered for a dozen posts about everything other than SP for specific character.

It's obvious you want players to be able to BUY with real life money Skill Points and screw the players paying subscription who are not willing to pay extra

and by the way,
You can buy training certs with ISK but not extra SP
You can Buy Toons with is ISK but not extra SP
You can subscribe to as many accounts as you like and you STILL CAN"T BUY EXTRA SKILL POINTS WITH ISK

I Started playing this in 2008. I've quit playing several times for the same reason each time. It just takes way too long to train skills enough, so your not sitting in a station waiting to be skilled enough to survive or to start doing what ever it was you joined the game to do.



Pros:
This will open up the game for new players and make it more new player friendly.
This will NOT give anyone experience to stand up against a season player.
This is open to people that make isk and isn't only available to those who pay with a wallet.
This has the potential to bring in new players and old players. Which helps the game economy and pvp and probably everything else offered in the game.

(IMHO:
If seasoned players don't want us to have this then they are still in control of it. All they have to do is not give up their skill points)

Cons:

The skill point amounts may need to be tweaked. I don't fully understand what 500k skill points translates into for amount of skills but my best guy only has like 6 mil. (I am still a new player even though i've tried playing this on and off since 2008)

Old players are not going to like this because it gives an edge to new players that they never had starting the game. (we don't have to start grinding before we can actually play.)


Comments:
Every time I started to try and play this game I felt like i was paying for a game i was doing nothing but staying in a station to learn skills in so i could venture out and have fun.

This may or may not be the truth of the matter but it was how I felt. Most people are not going to pay to do that. Even if its not how it really is in this game. For those of us who has felt that way this would give us an opportunity to get out of the stations and do something like learn how to pvp, mine, do contracts, or otherwise contribute to the game and make it better.

If this goes though and we do get an influx of new players this would be good for everyone all around in my opinion. It just needs some fine tuning so the skills keep their value. I mean if 100 new players tried this out that's 100 new people to gank, to trade with, and to make the universe a more fun place for everyone.

I hope this wasn't too long winded but I thought this would be helpful.

Maybe there would be less resistance if there was a cap on the Max SP you could have in order to be able to use one of the packets so it would be more geared to help new characters get a jump in the game and out of the stations.

I'm surprised it's the Eve vets who have said in the past 'SP doesn't matter' who are against this, I would of thought they would love Skill Trading to be implemented so that they can sell every single one of their SP to prove what they said, that SP doesn't matter while newer player who think that SP does matter would buy it and be happy, it's good for all sides.

Yeah, better htfu and figure out how to use this fo your maximum benefit.

Or, well since it isn't out yet, you should probably spam the thread more. Only when it comes out do you actually have to htfu, I guess.

If it happens, obviously I'm going to be buying SP like everyone else. I can think of 4-5 ships I'd like to be flying now that I can't. Sounds great. Of course, that also was my training plan for the next few months of EVE... but why not? Let's have it today!

I just hope it doesn't happen. Even in some watered down form.

And with ALL due respect Alavaria, really? You're lecturing me about spam?

: )