EVE General Discussion

looking at all those major alliances/coalitions i got a strong feeling that they are not anything other than corporation of monsters with only reason to exist to fear new players. they only driving force is moon goo since they don't care of sov too much (thx fozzie).

reading eve related news most of the articles are related to one group punch another without much of the reason. there are groups called "elite pvp" which makes me smile all the time i do hear that sentence. yeah, talking about PL. NC. who else their newbie pets and some 'friends".

the only fair group among all those is Provi Bloc with all my respect to them.

when would this layout got finally change?

/me kicks troll back under the bridge.

"And stay there"

It's even worse than that, he's missed his chance at seeing how the real world works and how much power a group has over individuals. The humans who run eve coalitions are not so different from the humans who run countries or companies. Politics is as real in eve as in the real world.

OP if you want your group to survive/ thrive then you unfortunately have to be a selfish a**hole, it's just nature.

Apologies up front, but I'm about to get my soapbox out. My advice? skip to the end unless you enjoy wordy pontificating commentary.

I, or my legion of Surreptitious alts have been in many, many corporations and alliances dating all the way back to December 2003. During that time I have come to the conclusion that it is a law as ironclad as entropy that all alliances will take the same route. Much like stars, they start off as a mass of nebulous entities floating in the interstellar void, bouncing off each other, coming together, drifting apart. Then they start clumping together, temperature rises, attraction increases, more "particles" drift in, then one day when critical mass has been reached..... BOOOOOM!! a new star, or in our case, a new alliance, is formed. Over time the star first burns brightly, then goes through a long period of stability, before things start to get rocky. Much like an alliance. Finally once the star uses up all its fuel, or in the case of alliances, its goodwill, resources and luck, either it fizzles out or explodes with the force of a supernova.

Now, Eve is not as you may think, a game about internet spaceships, oh dear me no you naïve waif. It is a game about social dynamics, that just so happens to have spaceships in it. All of us are part of a social experiment to see what happens when you put 30,000+ high functioning sociopaths in the same room and give them the means to "figuratively" kill each other.

OK; some guy called Maslow hit the nail on the head with his hierarchy of needs. Its the middle bit that eve deals with.... safety, social, and esteem. Its not a good fit for high functioning sociopaths, but it works well enough. Pilots group together for safety and social interaction, which when their goals are achieved improves their esteem. The goals could be as simple as mining a roid, to building ships, to ganking noobs in amsen, to becoming the largest power bloc in the game. Meh sociopaths; no understanding them really.

So now we know why pilots band together in ever larger groupings.

What keeps them together? gravity? antisocial behaviour orders? ankle bracelets? No. Isk, inertia and circuses keep them together. The hierarchy of any alliance knows that if it doesn't keep its members space rich and happy, they will vote with their feet and leave. Those pilots that don't outright leave will stop logging on regularly.A lot of alliances over the years have imploded this way. A lot.

Now we get to human nature. The crux of the matter if you will. Humans I'm sorry to say are a self centred, egomaniacal, suspicious jealous bunch of slope brow monkeys. Oh as a species we have our moments and our individuals that buck the trend... The Dali Lama and Ghandi spring to mind, but mostly we are not very nice. That might be putting it mildly.

So we have a server full of representatives of a species that's not known for its warm and cuddly, playing a game where warm and cuddly is not encouraged. Not encouraged? It's positively frowned upon.

Mr Mieyli pretty much nailed it when he said " if you want your group to survive/ thrive then you unfortunately have to be a selfish a**hole, it's just nature." Civilisation is just the programming used to prevent people knifing each other over food, shelter and breeding rights. People are not naturally civilised. The IQ of a mob is in inverse proportion to the number of people in the mob. The more people in the mob, the easier to get them to do something uncivilised. Adolph Hitler and the Third Reich anyone? This analogy holds for alliances, though I won't name any, because linking an alliance, no matter which alliance, with Hitler, would not be fair to that alliance. Plus I get primaried enough in fleet fights as it is.

Finally the OP mentioned moon goo as a major factor in alliance warfare. He actually managed to get that right. RMT is the dirty little public "secret" that everyone knows about. There are people out there funding their life, not just their subscriptions using real money transactions. You know it, I know it, and CCP knows it. If we ignore the RMT, moon goo fuels things like SRPs, payments to mercenaries to do your dirty work, plex for subscriptions etc. Its what's in the space you hold, not the space itself that matters.

The OP asked a poignant question "when would this layout got finally change?"

To change the "layout", eve would have to undergo something akin to changing the laws of physics that govern this universe we inhabit, but even more impossibly, Human nature would also have to change.

EVE is not all warm and fuzzy. It's not. Its a seething mass of attitudes, opinions and egos, cooking over a flame of anonymity and unaccountability. CCP summed their own game up with the acronym, HTFU. Don't like the way the game is? do what every other major player in the game has done; get an edge and enforce a change. New players and older players need to understand this.



I have been Mithandra; I am a high functioning sociopath and I endorse this game.

Clinical sociopathy is prohibitive towards awareness of itself - try again.

Not sure where "psychopath" came from but.....

"Sociopaths, even high functioning ones, present themselves as something they're not - and this is a primary characteristic as well. They mimic feelings and empathy. There people who don't actually feel or care but may pretend too to further themselves, sociopaths are very destructive, whatever level they function on. But a high functioning sociopath would be a highly intelligent sociopath whose successful, someone whose very analytical, they view life as a game, like chess everything is calculated.

I have noticed that the media kind of glorifies sociopaths. The joker, jack sparrow, charlie from a two and half men - all sociopaths. Serial killers tend to be sociopaths as well"



I only use words I understand, and though some eve players have been labelled psychopaths... they really, REALLY are not. Well..... not psychopaths. Hopefully

Unfortunately Solecist Project, I've got to disagree with you on the eve will change bit. Respectfully of course, but disagree nevertheless. Perhaps I'm cynical but I've come by it naturally :)

Of course you disagree, you're a bittervet. ^_^

Yet, when you look at the game ...
... the new storylines involving drifters ...
... the new events ...
... new ships constantly changing the game for so many ...
... you too, eventually, have to realize that the game changes.


Over the last years CCP changed so many things ...
... there's no reason to believe they won't change literally every single bit sooner or later.


They'll change moon mining as well, eventually, probably sooner rather than later, because it's too static.

Which is why I love anarchists so much. They fail to understand how human nature draws people together for protection and other mutual benefits, and in an anarchic society, it's human nature that will always lead to the formation of a new government of some kind anyway, as people form communities and look for leadership.

Ah, I see, I was off. :)

Never?

I was looking at null sec corps, alliances and coalitions at one time (even tried joining for a bit) but I have found out there is "no paladin order" out there or at least some RP group, it´s just filth (not meant as a true insult). So I stay in high sec and enjoy my share of monthly null sec news provided by all-mighty Mr. Talladar.

I enjoy the game in my way, whatever others think about it and leave others to do the same.