EVE General Discussion

Not proving my point of manipulating at all nice you took out one line of my whole answer, and just answer "LOL human nature".

First: According to CCP QUANT the average account estimate per player is around 1.5 accounts per player and has been stable for 10 years. Your guy with 72 accounts were not the norm.
Average accounts per player taken from Source.

Second: your claim that PLEX is the reason people could multibox is insane. You have no proof that the guy did buy the 72 accounts(If such a person ever existed) with PLEX. He most likely got them by selling the ice and expanding. Buying 72 account to grind to keep the 72 account activated seems kinda counter intuitive and not making sense at all.

Why CCP forbid macros? Because there was a lot of complaining about the input broadcasting. This has however nothing to do with PLEX selling. And People can still multibox many accounts (especially when mining). This mainly hit the gatecamp multiboxers. The only thing that changed was effort. People are btw. still multiboxing ice mining, so.......

See all you did was expose "FACTS" like :
"There's just some smaller detail, like the fact humanity compete between themselves about who gets the upper hand first, who gets more powerful quicker etc. etc.

Clearly nothing to do with EvE "

what a fact .

TLDR:
All of your non-connected "Facts" does not change my orginal stand point in this thread. Pay2win is a definition that was originally used for other games. Its meaning is clear. You apply it to another game, where it does not translate 1:1 due to the nature of the sandbox. Then you make your own definition of pay2win and give a lot of examples that has more to do with in-game mechanics as PLEX selling. You can call it pay2power if you want, but pay2win is wrong.

The main problem with using p2w about a sandbox is that it is the ineractions are so complex, that your perceived bought advantage might not be an advantage. People who do not sell PLEX can still outcompete you or earn much more ISK.

Do you have a link to this? Because in the data from CCP quant the people you take under your PVE umbrella are explorers, miners, industry and missions runners. Do your data support that all of these groups only stay two years?

Besides another thing:


This makes me believe that the data from Quant are made of single observations taken out their logs and not averages over long time. Meaning it can hardly be called representative- Also if this is the case your categories will mixed up. There will be mainly PVP'ers doing PVE and reverse. If these events are not representative you might make a biased conclusion. And you might have, because if your hypothesis is correct why don't we see a steady decline in the five year period average from the PVE'ers bleading out?

What we see is a stable trend, untill ban of input broadcast in beginning 2015 and introducing sov, which first leads to a big drop, but then stabilizes. These trends of stabilized periods talks against your bleading PVE'ers hypothesis. If they leave like you claim, the influx of new players seems to be enough to keep it at steady state. But this does of course also not 100% disprove your hypothesis. There are just more obvious reasons out there for the deline in ACU, like that people left due to SOV changes.

New players got this feeling that they can't catch up with the old guys in the game. So after few months they stop or from the trial period it ended there. This game are hard for Casual gamers since mostly are looking for instant action like MOBA games but they can't get it there 'til they have enough SP and ISK to support in the long run without buying plex. We had a new guy on our training corp and first thing he wanted to know is how to catch up with the others in no time.

If CCP could find a way to attract more players like free boost to newer players, lesser monthly bills to attract returning players. For hardcore gamers this game are like basic needs for our day to day lives and it adds up to our monthly expenses.

These players need to play a game that's easy enough to grasp and far enough from how reality works to make sure their sensible, immature egos are being satisfied.

Reality? What do I mean? I mean that this game is based on natural laws, to a great part. In the real world you also don't get born with all the knowledge and experience older people have. You either grow amd learn to survive, or natural selection will remove you. Nature, **** yeah!

These people want a game that helps them avoid feeling inadequate...
... and EVE doesn't work that way at all.

Even if everyone got an all lvl V char literally NOTHING would change,
simply becauee the game isn't easy enough to get them on par with older players after a few days.

These people lack maturity and unless CCP changes the base mechanics this game operates on, it will never ever change. Selling SP will NOT make a difference at all, because you can't buy actual experience and intelligence!

Like Jabber, you mean.

Casual players are the issue, simple fact is that a single account is easier to kill then having a second account, and to be blunt €30 a month is a bit steep to be more difficult to kill, or €14.95 + grinding for plex which of course requires taking more risk to do so, to be blunt I really cannot be bothered to do that..

Conclusion, casual players can't be casual enough, which is the problem, I just came back to say hello to some friends on the €9.99 deal, but I can tell you that I will do absolutely jack in game because I need two account to be competitive.

The bolded part is why it's dumb to try to cater to that kind of player, at the expense of what EVE online is. This is why ALL of CCPs efforts in this direction have failed. "Opportunities"/revamping NPE, safeties and safety pop ups, higher starting SP, removing barriers (like clone costs and learning skills), guiding mechanics like the mission guide system, strengthening other protective aspects of the game, adding more 'rewards' etc etc. None of it worked, none of it helped retention and it's even possible that these efforts hurt retention.

It's expected that people tied to a certain way of thinking will keep advocating the same things over and over even though they don't work, so it makes sense to come to these forums everyday and see people say "CCP needs to make things easier for new players to come here". But the real truth is the opposite of that, people SAY they want ease , but their actions contradict that. Their actions show that they want challenge, and value for their time, not ease and comfort.

CCP has systematically striped much of the challenge from the game in the name of lowering barriers. Personally, if I'd started playing this year instead of 2007 (when the game said "here's a ship, oh and screw you") i wouldn't hang around either. IMO you fix that, and you just fixed EVE.

Exactly. To me seeing CCP dumb down even simple things like missile names (from nice, original, in lore names to some general auto-scripted name) was the sign of a bad change for EvE.

What CCP refuses to understand is that it is NOT by making EvE easier / dumber that you get more customers. Those who want "easier" have where to go already!

EvE instead should become richer. That's why, while I am utterly conservative on what imo made EvE succesful (including having as few shortcuts as possible), I am very progressive at saying EvE has lost terrain vs other games.

When I say that EvE could use an integration with Valkyrie it's because even me, an old station-bound trader, would IMMEDIATELY get a ship and go out to pew pew if EvE spaceships gameplay had been any fun. I don't demand "SC alike" utter (cumbersome) zillions of detailed flight features. But something immediate and fun like ED dogfighting PvP? YEAH that would make it. And would attract back people who are still mentally invested in EvE (maybe they got an 80+ SP character before they quit) and would love to finally pilot a damn ship in a spaceships game.

Another sign of times: CCP failed times and again because they felt being too good to be humble (I still recall the CEO and some of his top managers talks). Instead, LESSER projects actually ACHIEVED planetary interaction / walking / roaming (not that utter pile of crap we know as "(EvE) Planetary Interaction") and even first person going around in the damn space stations in a space sim. Those companies just reused what worked, what was available and made it space themed.

That's it. EvE at this point could have had exploration sites where you actually board an abandoned outpost and go find artifacts and riches. But no, they had to create their pharaonic self made 3D engine, waste millions and years and then lose big money abandoning WoD and barbies in space to their destiny.

THESE are the things that make EvE bleed players. I am not talking about "easy" EvE or "immature players with short attention span" features. Just stuff that EvE - with its huuuuuuuuuuuuge advantage from having been the prominent sci-fi MMO producer for a decade with no competition - should have implemented in 2008, max 2010.

If they did, today we'd be debating about why nodes are so overloaded by people fighting all kinds of scale battles everywhere.

Stuff would be FUN to play and blow up, destruction would greatly help EvE's stagnant economy.

But hey, according to some, we should stay well locked up in an ivory tower and look the other games with a superior, scoffing, look down attitude.





... and watch EvE slowly go under.

What's 'terrible' is your tendency to run to a kill board in these kinds of situations as if killboards measure anything... They don't btw, which is good for you since your own isn't very impressive...



Translation: I don't know how to do that, so it must not be possible, therefore the guy with more knowledge than me who is better at the game must be trolling.

Oh, and here you go. 1 character. High Sec. An hour a night of that you got a plex in less than a week. Sounds pretty casual to me..

Yes, kills on a character are a clear indication of how much isk he can make or how much he knows, especially if it's an alt. Your logic in this regard is probably a sign of being terrible which comes as no surprise. P.s. Have you seen your own KB?

Here's a picture of what I made since Monday (so less than 2 days total), it's a result of knowing wtf I'm doing, not of hard work or massive grinding. Your mileage may vary depending on your level of terribleness.