These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6261 - 2015-12-18 20:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamish McRothimay
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
That would be precluding the use of my proposed SP loss for Ship loss mechanism. Sorry you wasted a most eloquent response on your false presumption.

The only absolute loss in the trade-able SP exchange is by the buyer through diminishing returns ( I did read about it) The seller is trading his SP for ISK therefore it's not a loss.
What presumption is false? You advocated loss of SP on ship loss and I addressed that. You further advocated it in the absence of a change which makes everything in the op irrelevant for that point as none of it yet applies. You also stated the idea in the op creates room for SP loss on ship destruction and I asked you to justify that, and addressed the fact that your prior attempts at justification were flawed.

There were no assumptions, everything came directly from what you said:

"They are introducing a type of skill faucet that has no sinks. If skills were a consumable item then a system to farm / generate them makes sense. How about introducing a skill loss mechanic by expanding the T3 Strategic Cruiser system to cover all ship losses and maybe even modules fitted on ships." - There is no introduction since SP has always been a faucet with few sinks and the most common of which was removed. We never had any reason since then to believe such sinks were beneficial or necessary. Pointing that out in direct response isn't an assumption.

"I would consider this an attractive feature even without trade-able skill points" - Which establishes that this mechanism is not simply a response to the proposal in the op but an idea you think has it's own merits. No assumptions there.

"for all the game we have had a skill point system tied to subscription that precluded any sink mechanism" - To which I responded that's what clone grades were, so it was in no way precluded, just judged non-beneficial. And again, no assumption. Just a response to what you said. If you meant to say from ship loss specifically (as opposed to "any"), as addressed you would still be wrong with T3s and further, if you mean something, you should write it rather than make assumptions yourself about your reader. I made none. I just read what was presented.

The rest was further exploration and explanation of those points. And still you have yet to address the fully relevant request for benefit regarding this idea aside from suggesting the promotion of SP farms at the expense of all else is positive.



OMG I've forgotten to buy a clone upgrade - no wait they trashed that - They are introducing a type of skill faucet that has no sinks
From the very post you quoted:
"There is no introduction since SP has always been a faucet with few sinks and the most common of which was removed. We never had any reason since then to believe such sinks were beneficial or necessary...

...that's what clone grades were, so it was in no way precluded, just judged non-beneficial.


...And still you have yet to address the fully relevant request for benefit regarding this idea aside from suggesting the promotion of SP farms at the expense of all else is positive."

That sink has been gone leaving SP a pure faucet for those not losing T3s for a while. Care to actually explain why that should change and what benefit there is rather than repeat the fact we've both acknowledged several times?


Faucet + Sink = Balanced
Faucet + One-sided Sink = Unbalanced

The sink on the proposed system is applied to buyers only and made worse because of the diminishing returns system where the balance is actually reversed - Where else in-game does your training actually penalize your returns ?

Why does your lack of skills NOT penalize you ? Why isn't there a balancing mechanic that says I am a toon with under 10million SP only 10% of my extracted Points added

If its going to be treated as a market transaction then - At minimum the sink should drain SP from both sides of the exchange
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6262 - 2015-12-18 21:06:30 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

From the very post you quoted:
"[i]There is no introduction since SP has always been a faucet with few sinks and the most common of which was removed. We never had any reason since then to believe such sinks were beneficial or necessary...


and the REASON is they are will no longer be gained only via the Subscription/time/character they will be a marketable item

The whole idea becomes as stupid as introducing a new a ship that can be bought, upgraded but never destroyed except through self destruction.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6263 - 2015-12-18 21:37:36 UTC
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Faucet + Sink = Balanced
Faucet + One-sided Sink = Unbalanced

The sink on the proposed system is applied to buyers only and made worse because of the diminishing returns system where the balance is actually reversed - Where else in-game does your training actually penalize your returns ?

Why does your lack of skills NOT penalize you ? Why isn't there a balancing mechanic that says I am a toon with under 10million SP only 10% of my extracted Points added

If its going to be treated as a market transaction then - At minimum the sink should drain SP from both sides of the exchange
How is it unbalanced? SP is designed to go up over time, not have an equal in:out to enforce beneficial scarcity like isk or materials. SP related capabilities are supposed to go up over time, and there is no specified rate for that since there are no economic considerations for SP as a medium save the suggestion that your idea is terrible because it will make tradable SP exclusive and much more expensive by putting it in constant demand for active combat pilots just to maintain their capabilities.

SP was never meant to meet your definition of "balanced." Why should it start?

And a lack of skills does penalize you every time you engage in an activity to which those skills could be applied, and ironically, the one SP universal SP sink we did have functioned the same way, penalizing greater SP characters. The reason is obvious in this case for why it's set up as it is, to prevent trivial creation of very high SP characters and disincentivize use on them so more supply could be used to meet the demand of the intended newer player/character group.

Basically you're starting from the premise that SP needs sinked or that SP growth needs counterbalanced and going from there, but there is no reason for that to be true. The game as it strands evidences the opposite of what you advocate. You've stated that this inequality between incoming and outgoing SP is a problem, but have yet to explain why, or what benefits come from correcting it yet again.

Hamish McRothimay wrote:
and the REASON is they are will no longer be gained only via the Subscription/time/character they will be a marketable item

The whole idea becomes as stupid as introducing a new a ship that can be bought, upgraded but never destroyed except through self destruction
At the point where characters become capable of acting in space without ships you'd have a point, but until then the comparison ignores the fact that no amount of SP makes your pod a highly lethal, effective, productive or resilient vessel.

All skills do is allow greater effect over a wider set of tools and abilities which themselves represent the capacity for loss. What you're trying to do is ignore that and double punish loss, I suspect with the intent of advocating a complete break of any SP economy to the point of being non-functional.

All selling SP does is allow characters to procure and use it, which is what SP is designed for, without the need for or benefit from further sinks. SP is designed to accumulate and be used, and as such accumulation and use doesn't need countered by another mechanic.
JonnyPew
Doomheim
#6264 - 2015-12-19 01:26:31 UTC
I support this and want to see it implemented.

EVE Online video content creator

http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#6265 - 2015-12-19 02:32:57 UTC
Despite a complete absence of evidence, I'm still convinced this system is part of a broader plan to launch Dust on PC and create a F2P version of EVE.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6266 - 2015-12-19 03:44:18 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Despite a complete absence of evidence, I'm still convinced this system is part of a broader plan to launch Dust on PC

Hmm thought Dust got headshot. Maybe the v2, Legion?

This is good news if it was backed by any evidence...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6267 - 2015-12-19 06:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamish McRothimay
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Faucet + Sink = Balanced
Faucet + One-sided Sink = Unbalanced

The sink on the proposed system is applied to buyers only and made worse because of the diminishing returns system where the balance is actually reversed - Where else in-game does your training actually penalize your returns ?

Why does your lack of skills NOT penalize you ? Why isn't there a balancing mechanic that says I am a toon with under 10million SP only 10% of my extracted Points added

If its going to be treated as a market transaction then - At minimum the sink should drain SP from both sides of the exchange
How is it unbalanced? SP is designed to go up over time, not have an equal in:out to enforce beneficial scarcity like isk or materials. SP related capabilities are supposed to go up over time, and there is no specified rate for that since there are no economic considerations for SP as a medium save the suggestion that your idea is terrible because it will make tradable SP exclusive and much more expensive by putting it in constant demand for active combat pilots just to maintain their capabilities.

SP was never meant to meet your definition of "balanced." Why should it start?

And a lack of skills does penalize you every time you engage in an activity to which those skills could be applied, and ironically, the one SP universal SP sink we did have functioned the same way, penalizing greater SP characters. The reason is obvious in this case for why it's set up as it is, to prevent trivial creation of very high SP characters and disincentivize use on them so more supply could be used to meet the demand of the intended newer player/character group.

Basically you're starting from the premise that SP needs sinked or that SP growth needs counterbalanced and going from there, but there is no reason for that to be true. The game as it strands evidences the opposite of what you advocate. You've stated that this inequality between incoming and outgoing SP is a problem, but have yet to explain why, or what benefits come from correcting it yet again.

Hamish McRothimay wrote:
and the REASON is they are will no longer be gained only via the Subscription/time/character they will be a marketable item

The whole idea becomes as stupid as introducing a new a ship that can be bought, upgraded but never destroyed except through self destruction
At the point where characters become capable of acting in space without ships you'd have a point, but until then the comparison ignores the fact that no amount of SP makes your pod a highly lethal, effective, productive or resilient vessel.

All skills do is allow greater effect over a wider set of tools and abilities which themselves represent the capacity for loss. What you're trying to do is ignore that and double punish loss, I suspect with the intent of advocating a complete break of any SP economy to the point of being non-functional.

All selling SP does is allow characters to procure and use it, which is what SP is designed for, without the need for or benefit from further sinks. SP is designed to accumulate and be used, and as such accumulation and use doesn't need countered by another mechanic.


"SP was never meant to meet your definition of "balanced." Why should it start?"

"SP were never meant to be bought and sold as a tradable item on the market "so ... now it need balancing" "and because of that .. its time to start!"

""At the point where characters become capable of acting in space without ships you'd have a point""
Station Trading, contracting, Alliance forming, hiring haulers, corporation forming all nice and cozy in my pod but then you are fully aware that I was pointing out that you can buy SP and have no risk of loss thus nothing to do with the tangent you replied with. so its just like buying a ship that can be upgraded and not lost apart from self destructing it
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6268 - 2015-12-19 20:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Station Trading, contracting, Alliance forming, hiring haulers, corporation forming all nice and cozy in my pod but then you are fully aware that I was pointing out that you can buy SP and have no risk of loss thus nothing to do with the tangent you replied with. so its just like buying a ship that can be upgraded and not lost apart from self destructing it
I like how you think pointing out professions that won't be affected by your proposal and are free to gain purchasable SP without fear of loss is somehow more relevant than me pointing out the areas where you are directly double penalizing loss.

Or is this one of those "loss for thee but not for me" proposals by intent?

"SP were never meant to be bought and sold as a tradable item on the market "so ... now it need balancing" "and because of that .. its time to start!" - Already addressed: "SP is designed to go up over time, not have an equal in:out to enforce beneficial scarcity like isk or materials. SP related capabilities are supposed to go up over time, and there is no specified rate for that since there are no economic considerations for SP as a medium save the suggestion that your idea is terrible because it will make tradable SP exclusive and much more expensive by putting it in constant demand for active combat pilots just to maintain their capabilities."

SP was meant to increase character abilities, that's all. And that is what it will continue to do even if trading is introduced. Trading does not interfere with that function, and thus brings no reason to sink SP.

Your idea on the other hand works contrary to the function of SP by removing it and reducing character ability. The only way that would be balanced is if performing tasks in game without loss directly rewarded SP in return without requiring it from another player, with or without SP trading and on top of normal sub SP gains, but that comes with it's own issues. SP would already be balanced by being forced to come from existing characters and thus still being limited by subs and training.

So your search for an actual reason to sink SP continues.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6269 - 2015-12-20 00:30:06 UTC
Your attempts to sink this by page 314 are not looking good, you'd have done better to rehash pages 1 to 20 or so (ie: the rawest kneejerks)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6270 - 2015-12-21 19:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamish McRothimay
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Blurb...

SP was meant to increase character abilities, that's all. And that is what it will continue to do even if trading is introduced. Trading does not interfere with that function, and thus brings no reason to sink SP.

More Blurb



Duh! there is a sink built in it's the "diminishing returns" sink
and because it's TRADING skill points like any other trade made there should be a sink for the seller and the buyer NOT JUST THE BUYER

and so, we return to the bit where players are penalized for having playing the game longer and acquiring higher skill points
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6271 - 2015-12-21 20:45:46 UTC
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
and because it's TRADING skill points like any other trade made there should be a sink for the seller and the buyer NOT JUST THE BUYER

So when you buy an sp packet it should reduce your skillpoints instead of adding to them. Interesting concept.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6272 - 2015-12-21 21:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Blurb...

SP was meant to increase character abilities, that's all. And that is what it will continue to do even if trading is introduced. Trading does not interfere with that function, and thus brings no reason to sink SP.

More Blurb



Duh! there is a sink built in it's the "diminishing returns" sink
and because it's TRADING skill points like any other trade made there should be a sink for the seller and the buyer NOT JUST THE BUYER

and so, we return to the bit where players are penalized for having playing the game longer and acquiring higher skill points
Hold on, let me make sure I've got this. You're looking at the reduced SP due to high character SP on the part of a buyer as a sink: Ok fine, we can agree there, and are looking to even that sink for sellers by creating SP penalties for ship loss: This is probably the most ill conceived reasoning I've heard in a while, and considering this thread that's saying a lot.

Think about it for a sec, as a seller with a farming character do you think I'll be undocking that character and putting my product at risk for no reason? No, I probably won't. I'll likely be making my profit generator immune to loss by docking it up permanently. I'll likely determine any compulsion to use the character as anything but an SP farm is an unacceptable risk because realization of that risk is potentially a nice chunk from my product gone.

And still the act of selling sinks nothing. But those sales will surely happen more often and for more isk to buyers who wouldn't otherwise even participate with TSP.

You talk of penalties to older players with TSP, but introduce a system that has those players paying up to 10x or more of what a newer player has to in TSP just to recover from a loss between the ship loss SP penalty you propose, diminishing returns on TSP being used to recover, and your prior idea of excluding mods/ships that newer players use.

And all this does is help the buyer because it doesn't sink anything from them. But it does increase demand. It just makes parking in Jita 4-4 and doing nothing but selling SP over time that much more viable and profitable.

So instead of the system "penalizing players for being here longer" you'd rather it be "penalizing players for being here, those who were here longer even moreso." Great improvement. Well thought out.



Edit: Speaking conceptually here there is never any "sink" for the sale of any good sold for the seller of that item save the fact that that seller no longer has the item after the sale (tax/fees aside). Aside from how poorly this idea functions for any reason you've given, the idea of a seller "sink" aside from parting with the stock is in itself fundamentally flawed.

Removing product from the buyer, which is what your idea does (effectively double sinking from older player buyers no less with the diminishing returns along side it), doesn't "sink" anything from the seller that he isn't already trying to part with on the terms he willing to do so, else he wouldn't be a seller. And further that seller isn't parting with anything differently with or without your idea, once again making it clearly terrible at achieving it's stated goal.
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6273 - 2015-12-21 22:04:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
and because it's TRADING skill points like any other trade made there should be a sink for the seller and the buyer NOT JUST THE BUYER

So when you buy an sp packet it should reduce your skillpoints instead of adding to them. Interesting concept.


Did you just troll me?
I mean diminishing returns should be applied on both extraction and injection. If a 50mill character has a 20% loss from a 500k sp packet injection then another 50mill character should have had to extract 600k to make that 500k sp packet.

These extractors originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like PLEX.
Why should I be able to sell $15 worth of SP without losing any of the SP as Tax ? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas SP have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1.5 million of them.
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6274 - 2015-12-21 22:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamish McRothimay
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Blurb

Edit: Speaking conceptually here there is never any "sink" for the sale of any good sold for the seller of that item save the fact that that seller no longer has the item after the sale (tax/fees aside). Aside from how poorly this idea functions for any reason you've given, the idea of a seller "sink" aside from parting with the stock is in itself fundamentally flawed.

Removing product from the buyer, which is what your idea does (effectively double sinking from older player buyers no less with the diminishing returns along side it), doesn't "sink" anything from the seller that he isn't already trying to part with on the terms he willing to do so, else he wouldn't be a seller. And further that seller isn't parting with anything differently with or without your idea, once again making it clearly terrible at achieving it's stated goal.


Seller, selling goods sold has brokers fees
Buyer buying said goods has Sales tax

Not with SP

There is great confusion here.
You have to understand that the only things with value in this equation are Subscription Monies and because its used in their creation Skill Points. Buyers & sellers must both be taxed on the transaction to make an effective sink but because ISK is just a fiat currency the tax must be in Skill Points (which are actually worth something).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6275 - 2015-12-21 22:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
These extractors originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like PLEX.
Why should I be able to sell $15 worth of SP without losing any of the SP as Tax ? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas SP have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1.5 million of them.

I take that as plex originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like sp extractors, they also don't have an isk value as isk is in-game fiat currency? Or the SP when I use it to train I guess....

Similarly when I buy an sp extractor on the in-game market paying someone isk for it, I gained some $$$ value in return for in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash?


Actually good point, why should I be able to sell $14.95 worth of plex without losing any of the plex as tax? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas plex have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1 of them

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6276 - 2015-12-21 22:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamish McRothimay
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
These extractors originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like PLEX.
Why should I be able to sell $15 worth of SP without losing any of the SP as Tax ? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas SP have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1.5 million of them.

I take that as plex originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like sp extractors, they also don't have an isk value as isk is in-game fiat currency? Or the SP when I use it to train I guess....

Similarly when I buy an sp extractor on the in-game market paying someone isk for it, I gained some $$$ value in return for in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash?


Actually good point, why should I be able to sell $14.95 worth of plex without losing any of the plex as tax? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas plex have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1 of them


So PLEX are converted to ISK with both Brokers fees & sales tax, Yet when Extractors are converted to SP with only the injector is paying 'SP Tax'

To complicate things further. Converting the extractor to SP should really have NO Tax because converting a PLEX into something of worth outside the game like game-time has no Tax.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6277 - 2015-12-22 00:03:17 UTC
Hamish McRothimay wrote:

Seller, selling goods sold has brokers fees
Buyer buying said goods has Sales tax

Not with SP
Not true, With SP on the market tax and broker fees are intact since the market builds in those functions. What you're failing to note most of all though is that the tax is not paid in the good transferred, but the currency used for the exchange. By this same rule SP would never be taxed by removing SP, but by sinking isk, the currency used for the exchange.

Hamish McRothimay wrote:
There is great confusion here.
You have to understand that the only things with value in this equation are Subscription Monies and because its used in their creation Skill Points. Buyers & sellers must both be taxed on the transaction to make an effective sink but because ISK is just a fiat currency the tax must be in Skill Points (which are actually worth something).
This doesn't make sense. Subscription money is paid to introduce SP, that much is true. Beyond that though you're:
a) mistaking the diminishing returns for a tax (they aren't, rather their a disincentive to use the product for those that already have an abundance of it),
b) proposing that this tax needs expanded to the seller, which can't be true because as addressed there is no actual tax to begin with,
c) Thinking that SP loss on ship destruction actually accomplishes something of a tax on the seller when it demonstrably doesn't. It just consumes the buyers product,
d) Trying in error to separate an in game trade from the currency used for those trades, isk, when there is no supporting reason to do so even for real money originating items (see PLEX and all AUR items). SP and RL cash can't be the only things of value unless the trade is purely RMT. Even if they were that still provides no reason to sink a resource designed to be accumulated without limit beyond the mechanically enforced upper capacity to do so.

Your reason for thinking SP needs sinked is actually making less sense and your method still taxes buyers and the unaffiliated while NOT taxing sellers.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6278 - 2015-12-22 00:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
So PLEX are converted to ISK with both Brokers fees & sales tax, Yet when Extractors are converted to SP with only the injector is paying 'SP Tax'

To complicate things further. Converting the extractor to SP should really have NO Tax because converting a PLEX into something of worth outside the game like game-time has no Tax.
There is no "SP tax" much like there is no "time tax" for exchanging PLEX. Also SP would be converted to isk "with both Brokers fees & sales tax" so why do you need an extra associated tax? If isk taxing works for one real money item, why not another?

Also your idea does nothing to create a tax for extracting. That is done without loss of any kind for the seller even with your idea of SP loss on ship destruction.



Edit:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
These extractors originate and are paid for outside of the game with real money just like PLEX.
Why should I be able to sell $15 worth of SP without losing any of the SP as Tax ? I use $$ because ISK is in-game fiat money that cannot be equated to cash whereas SP have worth as we pay about $14.95 for 1.5 million of them.
Wait, when did this change into this concept? We were speaking about your idea for SP loss on ship destruction, which you tried to have viewed as a tax, and have now moved to something else (did I miss a transition somewhere? I guess I did?)? An actual tax?

Looking at that we're still having the same issues:
1) It's still trying to create a tax where there is none (diminishing returns isn't a tax)
2) It's still double penalizing high SP characters (now not only do the get less SP from TSP, they lose more SP from extractors)
3) It ignores the mechanics of selling extractors which generates an actual tax
4) It still would be a double tax, just for sellers since they still pay the market tax on top of the SP tax
5) It still doesn't explain why PLEX aren't taxed in the same manner, I can sell $19.95 worth of PLEX without my sub going down by a few days, so why is this different?

If you want to look at the price point difference between PLEX and a sub as a "tax" for PLEX, think for a moment about the function of the AUR cost of the extractor.
Saredan
Doomheim
#6279 - 2015-12-22 14:12:26 UTC
i think you can do it a bit different maybe :

make few packs : 1) services : token 1 : that provide 5m sp unallocated when consumed token 2 : provide 10 m sp unallocated , but only possible to consume it when the character is just born with the start base SP . only one token per newly created character
and one possible to use by character only .

so new players can catch older player in 1 year : if they make 18 m sp training in one year this do 28 m sp (with the 10 m sp token), providing a good character in one year old time .

making full skill sells can lead to abusive things (IMO)
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6280 - 2015-12-22 18:20:00 UTC
Saredan wrote:


making full skill sells can lead to abusive things (IMO)


If you were a bit more specific about the "abusive" part we could quickly demonstrate why your opinion bears little weight in the future of TSP.