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[Focus Group] Capital Ships

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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-12-02 19:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
@Scott Ormands (page wrapped)


You're absolutely right, I honestly think they've just not thought that far ahead.

But (imo) it directly impacts, in a negative way, their stated "vision" for carriers to be post rebalance.

I'd hate to see them rebalanced only for that to be mechanically crap due to an oversight only caught on sisi, better to check it out now.

If nothing comes of it, that's no problem, at least I'll know it hsa been considered.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#102 - 2015-12-04 08:49:53 UTC
Oh god, it was really non-obvious to find out what is going on in that focus group. Links in the OP lead to semi-dead reddit section. Yet, the meat is here (in case someone is interested):
https://focusgrouplogs.tech.ccp.is/legacy/capitals.txt
Olga Romanov
Doomheim
#103 - 2015-12-04 09:27:03 UTC
It's pretty clear going by the logs that half the group have seen and experienced great use of caps/supers/**** and the other half have only had them used against them or have no experience whatsoever in using them, makes it a pretty pointless endevour for the likes of Rocket, Capu and a couple of others in trying to get the full meta of cap use across which has already become evedent.

No surprise that Lords Servents keeps bringing up stupid ideas also which is cringeworthy at best.
Hiljah
Slap Fight Martial Artists
#104 - 2015-12-04 19:57:11 UTC
Scott Ormands wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
This feels like the most relevant place to ask this.

With the extended grids and the visions of carriers operating at extreme ranges - will you guys be looking at on grid probing and/or minimum warp to distances?


Outside the scope of our purpose


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give FAX bonus to range of Capital Energy Neutralizers and Smartbombs.
Make them desired for something more than logistics.


Not something i would support, that's not their purpose and that precludes giving those types of bonus's to the dps carriers.

Rek Seven wrote:
Have the focus group discussed sp reimbursement?


we've talked about it among ourselves but it hasnt been a focused topic that we've talked to ccp about yet in detail although they are aware its a concern. We also need to consider SP inflation and the effects that can have on the game.



Asuka Solo wrote:
1. Assuming I fit cap shield extenders / armor plates, will my EHP be within 5-10% less then what is is now, or more? (Spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as day)

2. Now how about some insight as to why super carriers need as much (or more depending on the hull bonuses) EHP as Titans after this "re-balance"?

3. Why are we forcing a choice between existing capital guns (hi-slots) and HAWs (also presumed to be using the hi-slots)?
Why don't we allow the capitals / supers to fit the HAW weapons into the 5 "t3 sub-system" slots in the fitting screens (for caps and supers) and add to the weapons of capitals on a grid?

4. Also, given that slowcats have been killed off completely (in terms of offensive capability of the N+1 wrecking balls), why are we still forcing capital logistics (FAX hulls) to go into triage (given all the falloff and optimal changes incoming to help nerf logistics in line with DPS mechanics) to use capital remote repair modules (preventing any remote assistance / spider tanking to FAX class hulls and making them stationary hulls in a world of up and coming capital and super capital mwd modules), while still allowing (and even buffing) sub capital logistics (See the new t2 logi frigates) to endure high-speed spider tanking, lesser-slow cat like gameplay outside of triage?

5. Given my comments in point 4 above, does CCP believe forcing players to sit in hulls like this (they will get primaried and killed near instantly in larger fights) with no ability to be remote repped by their fleet members will result in FAIR game principles towards cap pilots and FUN GAMEPLAY for FAX pilots?


1. I believe that is correct, 5-10% less ehp but increaseddamage taken and reduced rep effectiveness due tom lower resists

2. AFAIK most of them shouldnt have the same or more EHP, racial bonus's are also up for change potentially so resist bonus's might change or not idk.

3. Because there needs to be choices made before you jump in that allows for counter play, if one gun type can hit everything all the time theres no reason to use anything else.

4. because it forces you to commit to the field

5. we havent even talked about fax stats yet so I cant really talk to this point other than that CCP wants every ship to be fun to fly in the correct situation and for each one to have viable plays and counter plays.


Please Keep in mind that this is all coming from just me and nothing here is final or even what ccp has agreed on, just what we as members of the focus group have talked about.
P.S. totally going to remove jump drives from supers, who wants to sell me their aeon cheap. /s


"That's not their purpose" They're never going to get to be used for their intended purpose because they will be primaried or capped out.
3. Some of us won't ever be jumping in, we'll be warping. I think having to refit gun type is fine, but there should be plenty of room in cargo for this.
A capital gun ship that can't defend itself from one battleship is really pathetic.

4. Will carriers need to siege? There are many ships designed to keep ships on the field, why not increase their usefulness?

5. Because none of can name any ships that are obsolete or not fun.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#105 - 2015-12-05 00:56:21 UTC
With the proposed reductions to EHP and reliance on plates (yes I know it is just ideas)
Quote:
Archon: 4 (0) mids, 7 (0) lows -
Amarr Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% increase to Armor hit points
10% increase to Armor Repairer repair amount

Quote:
Thanatos: 5 (0) mids, 6 (0) lows -
Gallente Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
15% increase in Fighter squadron maximum velocity
(Crazy Idea disclaimer) 15% increase to ship warp speed


How about -
Amarr Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% increase to Armor hit points (buffer fit, reliance on FAX)
5% to Fighter damage

Gallente Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% to Armor Repair Amount (local reps, maintain mobility)
15% increase in Fighter squadron maximum velocity

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#106 - 2015-12-15 10:07:04 UTC
Scott Ormands wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
This feels like the most relevant place to ask this.

With the extended grids and the visions of carriers operating at extreme ranges - will you guys be looking at on grid probing and/or minimum warp to distances?


Outside the scope of our purpose


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give FAX bonus to range of Capital Energy Neutralizers and Smartbombs.
Make them desired for something more than logistics.


Not something i would support, that's not their purpose and that precludes giving those types of bonus's to the dps carriers.

Rek Seven wrote:
Have the focus group discussed sp reimbursement?


we've talked about it among ourselves but it hasnt been a focused topic that we've talked to ccp about yet in detail although they are aware its a concern. We also need to consider SP inflation and the effects that can have on the game.



Asuka Solo wrote:
1. Assuming I fit cap shield extenders / armor plates, will my EHP be within 5-10% less then what is is now, or more? (Spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as day)

2. Now how about some insight as to why super carriers need as much (or more depending on the hull bonuses) EHP as Titans after this "re-balance"?

3. Why are we forcing a choice between existing capital guns (hi-slots) and HAWs (also presumed to be using the hi-slots)?
Why don't we allow the capitals / supers to fit the HAW weapons into the 5 "t3 sub-system" slots in the fitting screens (for caps and supers) and add to the weapons of capitals on a grid?

4. Also, given that slowcats have been killed off completely (in terms of offensive capability of the N+1 wrecking balls), why are we still forcing capital logistics (FAX hulls) to go into triage (given all the falloff and optimal changes incoming to help nerf logistics in line with DPS mechanics) to use capital remote repair modules (preventing any remote assistance / spider tanking to FAX class hulls and making them stationary hulls in a world of up and coming capital and super capital mwd modules), while still allowing (and even buffing) sub capital logistics (See the new t2 logi frigates) to endure high-speed spider tanking, lesser-slow cat like gameplay outside of triage?

5. Given my comments in point 4 above, does CCP believe forcing players to sit in hulls like this (they will get primaried and killed near instantly in larger fights) with no ability to be remote repped by their fleet members will result in FAIR game principles towards cap pilots and FUN GAMEPLAY for FAX pilots?


1. I believe that is correct, 5-10% less ehp but increaseddamage taken and reduced rep effectiveness due tom lower resists

2. AFAIK most of them shouldnt have the same or more EHP, racial bonus's are also up for change potentially so resist bonus's might change or not idk.

3. Because there needs to be choices made before you jump in that allows for counter play, if one gun type can hit everything all the time theres no reason to use anything else.

4. because it forces you to commit to the field

5. we havent even talked about fax stats yet so I cant really talk to this point other than that CCP wants every ship to be fun to fly in the correct situation and for each one to have viable plays and counter plays.


Please Keep in mind that this is all coming from just me and nothing here is final or even what ccp has agreed on, just what we as members of the focus group have talked about.
P.S. totally going to remove jump drives from supers, who wants to sell me their aeon cheap. /s


3. We dont have just 1 gun type, we have 3. (small guns, medium guns and large guns - not to mention missiles - can all hit capital or super capital hulls). But capital guns can't effectively hit sub cap hulls (without the effort of sub capital tackle, webbing and target painting). Where's the counter play in that? Drones? - There goes the carriers ability to use normal drones (coming soon). Fighters? - End of skynet (recently) . Guns? - End of tracking titans (back in the day).

So going back to the fun statement, supported by counter play arguments. Why should sub capitals be allowed to shoot every hull in this game and not need anything bigger to overcome its sorely needed shortcomings? Why not allow capitals and supers to shoot back at and effectively apply dps to as many hulls or not quite as many as sub caps can with new slots that give those hulls value above being escort targets, structure bashers and giant km pinatas?

4. Care to explain how allowing remote reps in triage while disallowing warping or jumping is not achieving the same thing? Also care to explain how forcing players to commit a multi billion isk ship - where isk is not a balancing factor for fun no matter how hard the spin - to the field "by means of on grid based ritual seppuku" no less, is going to be "fun" and allow for counter play (for FAX pilots) in the sub capital + dreadnaught N+1 meta?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Anthar Thebess
#107 - 2015-12-16 15:45:54 UTC
Give assault frigates triple ( or more ) damage bonus against capitals and super capitals. ( Lore: Hitting week points / subsystems)
This will bring this ships back to life , and provide interesting ingame tactics.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Anthar Thebess
#108 - 2015-12-16 15:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Sgt Ocker wrote:
With the proposed reductions to EHP and reliance on plates (yes I know it is just ideas)
Quote:
Archon: 4 (0) mids, 7 (0) lows -
Amarr Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% increase to Armor hit points
10% increase to Armor Repairer repair amount

Quote:
Thanatos: 5 (0) mids, 6 (0) lows -
Gallente Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
15% increase in Fighter squadron maximum velocity
(Crazy Idea disclaimer) 15% increase to ship warp speed


How about -
Amarr Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% increase to Armor hit points (buffer fit, reliance on FAX)
5% to Fighter damage

Gallente Carrier skill bonuses (per level):
10% to Armor Repair Amount (local reps, maintain mobility)
15% increase in Fighter squadron maximum velocity



Just no.
People skilled certain ships for certain bonuses. Some things should not change.

Chimera , archon - bonus to the hit point numbers ( change from resists bonus )
Thanathos - bonus to fighter squadron damage ( many people skilled this hull only because of this bonus)
Niddy - don't know. Faster warp ? Much faster alignment ? Maybe much lower EHP, but 7LY jump range.

Capitals need to be changed, but people and CCP should not change the basic reason why some hull was important before.
The only reason why the concept of hovering nyx was made, is because this ship famous for its DPS ( even when Hel looks tons better).

There is no point of adding local rep bonus , for me local capital repers need to be adjusted - instead of all hulls that can use them.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#109 - 2015-12-20 22:13:00 UTC
What happened to the capital focus group?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#110 - 2015-12-21 10:44:08 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
What happened to the capital focus group?


Seems they had a high level reddit chat a few months ago, then got turned into a dedicated Q&A forum group....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#111 - 2015-12-21 12:07:51 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
What happened to the capital focus group?


Seems they had a high level reddit chat a few months ago, then got turned into a dedicated Q&A forum group....


So nothing then. Happy Holidays Twisted

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2015-12-28 11:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give assault frigates triple ( or more ) damage bonus against capitals and super capitals. ( Lore: Hitting week points / subsystems)
This will bring this ships back to life , and provide interesting ingame tactics.



Give all supers a trench with an exhaust port at the end where a single missile hit can blow it up!!!

On a serious note, if something was made to be the bane of capitals, would need to be something that Battleships prey upon. That would bring up a more healthy ecosystem that could feed itself positively with more opportunities.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2015-12-28 17:20:04 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give assault frigates triple ( or more ) damage bonus against capitals and super capitals. ( Lore: Hitting week points / subsystems)
This will bring this ships back to life , and provide interesting ingame tactics.



Give all supers a trench with an exhaust port at the end where a single missile hit can blow it up!!!

On a serious note, if something was made to be the bane of capitals, would need to be something that Battleships prey upon. That would bring up a more healthy ecosystem that could feed itself positively with more opportunities.


So BC unless we want to loop back to BS ...
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2015-12-29 08:52:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give assault frigates triple ( or more ) damage bonus against capitals and super capitals. ( Lore: Hitting week points / subsystems)
This will bring this ships back to life , and provide interesting ingame tactics.



Give all supers a trench with an exhaust port at the end where a single missile hit can blow it up!!!

On a serious note, if something was made to be the bane of capitals, would need to be something that Battleships prey upon. That would bring up a more healthy ecosystem that could feed itself positively with more opportunities.


So BC unless we want to loop back to BS ...



Before the old tier 2 BC hulls were moved to some of the command ships I was always found of the idea of making a new T2 BC class with those hulls. Strategic bomber... like the stealth bomber.. but with the old move faster while cloaked but not warp cloaked... and with a new special launcher that could fire citatel torpedoes :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2015-12-30 14:33:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
and with a new special launcher that could fire citatel torpedoes :P

Or high damage 1m AoE bombs Blink

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2015-12-30 14:56:19 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
and with a new special launcher that could fire citatel torpedoes :P

Or high damage 1m AoE bombs Blink



the focused void bombs are already pretty good as bombs against capitals. Maybe a ship with a great bonus for those bombs... ...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
yonika
ANCIENT ELITE
#117 - 2016-01-10 19:14:25 UTC
I suggest bringing in a drug that increases jump range and reduces jump fatigue for 1 day or a few hours or something but can only be used once every 6 months.

The penalties need to be severe like with strong booster 0% resistance.

Was asked to post this here.
Reason why sometimes you may need to move alot but spending 3 days jumping a ship is ridiculous however being able to do it once or twice a year seems sensible.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2016-01-28 08:48:57 UTC
Any chance one of you guys can nudge CCP to do a consolidated log as well as the daily posts? Makes it much easier to search for references when you can't remember what day they were made.

Thanks Smile
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#119 - 2016-01-28 11:13:39 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Any chance one of you guys can nudge CCP to do a consolidated log as well as the daily posts? Makes it much easier to search for references when you can't remember what day they were made.

Thanks Smile

You mean there is more than the 2 or 3, 2 month old posts on Reddit?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2016-01-28 11:57:15 UTC
I mean the slack logs. There are 51 separate log files, trawling is a pain in the rear.