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[Focus Group] Capital Ships

First post First post First post
Author
Capqu
Half Empty
#81 - 2015-11-16 16:18:56 UTC
"lordsservant: tracking titans were super cool and imo relatively healthy for the game"

jaysus some of these people
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#82 - 2015-11-16 18:06:39 UTC
I have removed a personal attack and those quoting it.

Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2015-11-16 18:13:16 UTC
Capqu wrote:
"lordsservant: tracking titans were super cool and imo relatively healthy for the game"

jaysus some of these people


Malcanis wrote:
Olga Romanov wrote:
Please CCP for the love of ******* god just ban Lord's Servant from it before it startsLol



For their own protection, never mind ours.



Someone had called it I guess...
Olga Romanov
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-11-17 08:29:57 UTC
I tried to warn you all! LolTwisted
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2015-11-20 16:05:25 UTC
Make the Rev valid please
Dr Kakamatschi
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-11-22 15:47:14 UTC
Hi,
Im a player interested into capital logistics, I skilltrained years for that and now we are getting dedicated ships for this purpose.
Thats really interesting, but after reading all about the capital changes and passing it around my head for a while, Im having some heavy concerns about the effects of those changes:

1- Logistics always were a team role.
I personally loved the teamwork, to form a synergetic network that can distribute power and repair. Capital logistics will now be limited to triage, which means that it will be a solo role. As a logi pilot, I dont find this very intriguing.

2- Capital Tank doesnt scale anymore with the number of ships. Yes, this is the original intent of the tweak, but the tweaks only effect logistics and titans, not carriers and dreads. So here is the problem: If you have a big capital fleet with like 5 Force Aux, every normal ship would be unkillable because its repped by 5 Aux. The Aux on the other hand are in Triage and limited to their local tank. This local tank cant be scaled with the fleetsize, thus making them the weakest link AND the prime target. This is as intended.
But now imagine piloting a Force Aux:
You come onto the battlefield. You turn on triage, because without it, you are useless. Now you are the prime target. You are on your own. You cant evade doomsdays. The enemy knows how much dps they need to bring to break a single local cap tank. You WILL break. Theres nothing you can do, noone can help you.
The new loneliest place in the fleet: the former support role, the team role.
(Only solution: Buffer, triage swapping)

3- Since the Force Aux are the weakpoint and lever of the fleet, it wouldnt make sense to attack any other capitals. This means you wont be using your remote reps. The reps are just a theoretical threat to the enemy fleet. The support role is gone.
The only service you give to your fleet is the time that you can stay alive. This time can be extended by forcing the enemy to go through more otherwise useless Force Aux.

4- A tiny issue:
All the caps are getting cool new toys. All EXCEPT for the Force Aux. The Aux even got taken away its logistic network.

Conclusion:
I personally fear that the Force Aux class will be the most frustrating and boring ship to play in capital battles. I hope all these points have been taken into consideration and wont be an issue. Cry
Supreme Authority
Pure Win Society
0 Phux Given
#87 - 2015-11-23 21:18:49 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Incompetent - 3
Unknown - 4
Corrupt - 12
Good - 7

This is literally worse than T3 group.
I guess for the next group CCP bias will finally get full power, and corrupt people finally get the majority they need to get rid of everything threatening their bot empires in eve.



Oh come ON. There has to be some overlap. I am sure at least one person is incompetent, unknown AND corrupt.

m

Yes, but I didn't make it on the panel. :P
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#88 - 2015-11-25 04:10:49 UTC
Give FAX machines an ewar bonus too. Give them a reason to target ships other than fleet members.

Why?

Because, under pressure, they'll muck up and rep the primary and/or ewar fleet members.
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#89 - 2015-11-25 04:43:40 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
Give FAX machines an ewar bonus too. Give them a reason to target ships other than fleet members.

Why?

Because, under pressure, they'll muck up and rep the primary and/or ewar fleet members.


They just won't equip themselves with those modules.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#90 - 2015-11-25 17:11:19 UTC
With the EHP discussion on supers...

Why are you reducing the EHP on the Titans by an average of 20% - 40%?

Why would super carriers still have as much EHP as titans after the re-balance?

And are you guys planning on reducing any of the slots (mid or low) for any ships (in reference to the -2 low notations on your WiP excel sheet on the EHP figures)?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Scott Ormands
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#91 - 2015-11-25 22:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Scott Ormands
Asuka Solo wrote:
With the EHP discussion on supers...

Why are you reducing the EHP on the Titans by an average of 20% - 40%?

Why would super carriers still have as much EHP as titans after the re-balance?

And are you guys planning on reducing any of the slots (mid or low) for any ships (in reference to the -2 low notations on your WiP excel sheet on the EHP figures)?


1. reducing the base hp to compensate for the introduction of capital plates or extenders applies to all super capitals, not just titans

2. the -2 designation represents the 2 slots we would expect people to fit the capital plates in, not actually removing the slots
Hiljah
Foo Holdings
AL3XAND3R.
#92 - 2015-11-26 18:20:18 UTC
Dr Kakamatschi wrote:
Hi,
...
3- Since the Force Aux are the weakpoint and lever of the fleet, it wouldnt make sense to attack any other capitals. This means you wont be using your remote reps. The reps are just a theoretical threat to the enemy fleet. The support role is gone.
The only service you give to your fleet is the time that you can stay alive. This time can be extended by forcing the enemy to go through more otherwise useless Force Aux.

4- A tiny issue:
All the caps are getting cool new toys. All EXCEPT for the Force Aux. The Aux even got taken away its logistic network.

Conclusion:
I personally fear that the Force Aux class will be the most frustrating and boring ship to play in capital battles. I hope all these points have been taken into consideration and wont be an issue. Cry


I think this is a really good point.
What if FAXs were the only caps that can use the new cap neuts and nos? If their local tank was 3 or 4 times more effective than there remote reps you could have situations where FAXs try to cap each other out while repping others. I feel like this would make them less defenseless in small gangs.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#93 - 2015-11-27 08:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Scott Ormands wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
With the EHP discussion on supers...

Why are you reducing the EHP on the Titans by an average of 20% - 40%?

Why would super carriers still have as much EHP as titans after the re-balance?

And are you guys planning on reducing any of the slots (mid or low) for any ships (in reference to the -2 low notations on your WiP excel sheet on the EHP figures)?


1. reducing the base hp to compensate for the introduction of capital plates or extenders applies to all super capitals, not just titans

2. the -2 designation represents the 2 slots we would expect people to fit the capital plates in, not actually removing the slots


Thanks for the above.

1. Assuming I fit cap shield extenders / armor plates, will my EHP be within 5-10% less then what is is now, or more? (Spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as day)

2. Now how about some insight as to why super carriers need as much (or more depending on the hull bonuses) EHP as Titans after this "re-balance"?

3. Why are we forcing a choice between existing capital guns (hi-slots) and HAWs (also presumed to be using the hi-slots)?
Why don't we allow the capitals / supers to fit the HAW weapons into the 5 "t3 sub-system" slots in the fitting screens (for caps and supers) and add to the weapons of capitals on a grid?

4. Also, given that slowcats have been killed off completely (in terms of offensive capability of the N+1 wrecking balls), why are we still forcing capital logistics (FAX hulls) to go into triage (given all the falloff and optimal changes incoming to help nerf logistics in line with DPS mechanics) to use capital remote repair modules (preventing any remote assistance / spider tanking to FAX class hulls and making them stationary hulls in a world of up and coming capital and super capital mwd modules), while still allowing (and even buffing) sub capital logistics (See the new t2 logi frigates) to endure high-speed spider tanking, lesser-slow cat like gameplay outside of triage?

5. Given my comments in point 4 above, does CCP believe forcing players to sit in hulls like this (they will get primaried and killed near instantly in larger fights) with no ability to be remote repped by their fleet members will result in FAIR game principles towards cap pilots and FUN GAMEPLAY for FAX pilots?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2015-12-02 10:52:44 UTC
This feels like the most relevant place to ask this.

With the extended grids and the visions of carriers operating at extreme ranges - will you guys be looking at on grid probing and/or minimum warp to distances?
Rek Seven
Galactic Deep Space Industries
Brave Collective
#95 - 2015-12-02 11:46:34 UTC
Have the focus group discussed sp reimbursement?

If some of the roles are going to be moved from one capital class to another, I feel that people should be able to trade in there capital related sp.
Anthar Thebess
#96 - 2015-12-02 15:28:44 UTC
Give FAX bonus to range of Capital Energy Neutralizers and Smartbombs.
Make them desired for something more than logistics.
Scott Ormands
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#97 - 2015-12-02 18:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Scott Ormands
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
This feels like the most relevant place to ask this.

With the extended grids and the visions of carriers operating at extreme ranges - will you guys be looking at on grid probing and/or minimum warp to distances?


Outside the scope of our purpose


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Give FAX bonus to range of Capital Energy Neutralizers and Smartbombs.
Make them desired for something more than logistics.


Not something i would support, that's not their purpose and that precludes giving those types of bonus's to the dps carriers.

Rek Seven wrote:
Have the focus group discussed sp reimbursement?


we've talked about it among ourselves but it hasnt been a focused topic that we've talked to ccp about yet in detail although they are aware its a concern. We also need to consider SP inflation and the effects that can have on the game.



Asuka Solo wrote:
1. Assuming I fit cap shield extenders / armor plates, will my EHP be within 5-10% less then what is is now, or more? (Spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as day)

2. Now how about some insight as to why super carriers need as much (or more depending on the hull bonuses) EHP as Titans after this "re-balance"?

3. Why are we forcing a choice between existing capital guns (hi-slots) and HAWs (also presumed to be using the hi-slots)?
Why don't we allow the capitals / supers to fit the HAW weapons into the 5 "t3 sub-system" slots in the fitting screens (for caps and supers) and add to the weapons of capitals on a grid?

4. Also, given that slowcats have been killed off completely (in terms of offensive capability of the N+1 wrecking balls), why are we still forcing capital logistics (FAX hulls) to go into triage (given all the falloff and optimal changes incoming to help nerf logistics in line with DPS mechanics) to use capital remote repair modules (preventing any remote assistance / spider tanking to FAX class hulls and making them stationary hulls in a world of up and coming capital and super capital mwd modules), while still allowing (and even buffing) sub capital logistics (See the new t2 logi frigates) to endure high-speed spider tanking, lesser-slow cat like gameplay outside of triage?

5. Given my comments in point 4 above, does CCP believe forcing players to sit in hulls like this (they will get primaried and killed near instantly in larger fights) with no ability to be remote repped by their fleet members will result in FAIR game principles towards cap pilots and FUN GAMEPLAY for FAX pilots?


1. I believe that is correct, 5-10% less ehp but increaseddamage taken and reduced rep effectiveness due tom lower resists

2. AFAIK most of them shouldnt have the same or more EHP, racial bonus's are also up for change potentially so resist bonus's might change or not idk.

3. Because there needs to be choices made before you jump in that allows for counter play, if one gun type can hit everything all the time theres no reason to use anything else.

4. because it forces you to commit to the field

5. we havent even talked about fax stats yet so I cant really talk to this point other than that CCP wants every ship to be fun to fly in the correct situation and for each one to have viable plays and counter plays.


Please Keep in mind that this is all coming from just me and nothing here is final or even what ccp has agreed on, just what we as members of the focus group have talked about.
P.S. totally going to remove jump drives from supers, who wants to sell me their aeon cheap. /s
Scott Ormands
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#98 - 2015-12-02 18:47:07 UTC
Also Logs and updated focus group google docs are now available here

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3v6clh/focus_group_logs_are_now_available/
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2015-12-02 18:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Scott Ormands wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
This feels like the most relevant place to ask this.

With the extended grids and the visions of carriers operating at extreme ranges - will you guys be looking at on grid probing and/or minimum warp to distances?


Outside the scope of our purpose


Do you not feel it is directly related to the performance of tomorrows carriers?

Let me phrase it differently - why do you not think on grids of say 1000km wide, being able to pounce onto carriers at 300-500 km away with zero effort is unhealthy?

It demands a support fleet in immediate proximity, which kinda makes their much vaunted range all for naught really.

Essentially we'll have big grids, but there's absolutely no incentive to do anything other than form a giant battleball because any and all amount of careful positioning can be circumvented in a heartbeat by some idiot with an expanded probe launcher. The range of the ships becomes pointless.


I raise it here because nothing but carriers is going to do realistic DPS at these ranges so they are the most affected by the (lack of) difficulty in on grid probing.
Scott Ormands
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#100 - 2015-12-02 18:55:18 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Stuff


That definitely has the ability to impact capitals however that is directly related to mechanics that we dont have any right to comment on and expect CCP to liusten to our thoughts since its not capitals themselves. If they ask us to look at im sure we will but I dont expect them too.