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"This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. " Ie trying to prove something to someone who said


Come tomorrow to see new Dons posts. I'm sure he will come because his pride is too huge.

Never give up!

I note though that you're off to a good start as we're looking at something that's pretty likely to happen, yeah?

I'm going to try and elaborate on my previous post and be as unbiased and honest as possible starting with "That" statement made by Helmar,The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. It can be taken in any manner of ways but everyone including myself didn't include the antecedent - Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope. Whilst i don't find MMO's have changed radically what is evolving is there flexibilty between developer and player base in games that are passing there decade mark.

If we forget about all erroneous comments like pay2win and work on the common ground of Flexibility. Blizzard took the steps to narrow there start game to end content by introducing the level 90 boost, there new expansion pre purchase offer a one time 100 boost plus early access to the new class. Whilst some moaned a lot were pleased with its direction after playing for years they liked the ability to try a new class at end game level without all the grind to get to the end game. They also took the plex concept and called it a token which has helped maintain a steady 5mill sub base, which is beginning to rise. There shop pets are vanity items but the mounts are a nice addition. Everything that blizzard did was applied unabridged without any strings attached you pay £40 you get level 90.

CCP are now in a position where they want some of these extra income generators but seem hesitant in taking the appropriate steps in doing it.They have offered excuse this, Half arsed attempt at customization with all manner of complications attached to stem the outcry of pay2win. As a game community you have to meet the developers half way over something's and with this flexibility why not just support them offering the sale of skill points directly to pilots without complications.

Skill points only afford you the opportunity to use it, Not what you can do with it personally. If a game is to survive both sides need flexibilty. Without new pilots we're just going to stagnate and disappear.

You really should learn to read or just shut your mouth, ive not said anything of a 1 time payment .

a 500k package for XX price with all the depreciation scale still attached. i didnt say you could only purchase one and i've not attached any price either.

I will stop this, np. As stated in n) in previous post, I now understand what issues in this conversation you are facing and I apologize for challenging you.

Who are you and where is TylerLevi?

So could that be one of my eleventy accounts that im stripping and liquidating or just like you full of ****

a) Simple, you've yet to present proof people are operating at their peak rate of isk earning and are misusing metrics to try to construct the argument that they are. And we don't need further study for that because CCP provided data last FF actually detailing what people do, including idle time, destructive activity, PvE, industry, etc. So no, I didn't do a study, the people with all the data did.

So what we know is that people aren't mechanically earning isk with no other motivations.

Even from anecdote we have a funny little effect:
We know poor fits exist, meaning there is a knowledge gap in certain areas that could increase isk making. We know this because we can measure efficiency over a subset of fits because we don't need them all to evaluate one.
We know not all pilots use the most efficient means of isk earning in certain occupations. Observation shows us the use of the noctis for salvaging missions for instance, but blitzing is faster income.
We also no activities that aren't necessarily isk efficient but serve other goals (lvl 3 blitzing for standing).
We know people don't always chase isk.

Why can these count? Simple, the strength of your claim requires all players actually be operating optimally ALL THE TIME. ANY players not acting optimally work against it. Thus any example is evidence.

And no, today I'm doing less to keep up with the demands of the game than my first 3 months. Those first 3 months were filled with a) Dumb losses that were non trivial compared to my earning potential, b) an earning potential itself capped by being dragged out of the tutorial by a friend who gave a pretty poor explanation of game activities and c) even with new ships and mods like the 14 just released my average wallet is enough to cover the additions to my hanger at settled prices which wouldn't have been the case in my first 3 months.

Further than that, since I only need enough isk to cover what I'm actually using, buying more ships doesn't increase the amount I need to keep on hand since I can't lose them all at the same time.

And no, peak periods wouldn't be visible because there is no reason for them to be sync'd. Their on individual levels. A graph of total wallet values can't tell you of the individual grinds people go through because their only single insignificant data points at that level. And their spending isn't outpacing their income, their wallets are going up.

Regarding the idea that people will grind for TSP, yeah, those that want it via gameplay will in some manner because the option is open to them, but again that doesn't mean the overall isk will rise notably because it's not a full player base motivator AND a number of player incomes originate from transferring isk rather than creating new isk, meaning income that can vary exponentially without ever actually showing a difference in average wallet value.

b) Read that original point again:
TSP will allow for greater association with a players chosen identity.

It's not:
TSP will allow for association with a players chosen identity.

Which you have been responding to. I showed a scenario in which a greater association was the result. It didn't create association, it enhanced it. The new benefit is that enhancement, thus the pre-existance of association does not negate this benefit. I get now that your whole objection here was moving goalposts to something I never stated.

e) Oh, THAT question, I already said they already do. Which was an obvious yes. I was under the impression that you were referring to your redirection because that question was one I already answered.

g) No, the production cost is not in direct relation to PLEX, isk or cash. Even assuming a PLEX sustained account the cost of that SP is whatever the leftover cost of the PLEX is after other isk making activities are accounted for. Thus for already PLEXing accounts that isk cost for SP is 0. Those players are free to undercut those trying to depend on PLEX centric pricing. Further as mentioned elsewhere PLEX profitable TSP means it's less costly to farm your own TSP than buy it. Demand will shift towards self supply in a highly PLEX profitable market, reducing prices of sold SP.

It will still be plentiful because for some any return over the extractor is still a profit on otherwise wasted training potential.

h) That theory seems fundamentally flawed because that's the group with the most potential growth, especially under the tutelage of older players.

m) I've answered your question, and further advised I believe that conclusion to be wrong since the supply will very likely increase. You asked what increased demand on plex would do and I replied that in the absence of the anticipated supply "PLEX will go up." But reading what I'm posting instead of what you want to read isn't really your strong suit.

n) I fully understood your continued deflection to the rest of the thread and the failure to support the idea of these consequences it represents. Beyond that I'm not sure why you think this "right to be enraged" counts as a rational argument. People are mad because they are and you're statements here borderlined on acknowledging they had no factual basis while stating this was to be deferred to because rather than introduce a sound mechanic CCP should just oblige the loudest segment.

That's some pretty terrible justification.

If you'd have defined goalpost there that would have taken care of that, but in the absence of any measure I went back toi the argument you presented.

The primary reason they won't sell SP is because they already are as covered. It's not that they don't want to. It's that they already do at about the best price they can get for it and any immediate sale cuts into that sweet sweet skill queue online money.

Further you can't introduce an unlimited alternative to that sub. Especially when the end result of this could produce more multi account holders.

You don't bypass one revenue stream for another if you can help it.

And no, such an idea is far more offensive than this. The idea of trading SP brought this about, from what reasoning do you think outright selling it for cash would be accepted? Subject to every machination in the game is worse than "bring your CC or go home?"

Lastly I like the idea that TSP is block friendly, but blocks are somehow unable to manipulate PLEX to their advantage to obtain AUR? That seems short sighted.

a) I never said they are. Some people are, some people are not. And it will probably always be like that. I just challenged your logic, showing that we cannot know details for each person while you insisted that they will push to peak of earning in order to get TSP.

We can use the statistics tool called median. And that is what the official graph gives us.

Getting TSP in will not move everyone to their peak, ie they average line (median) will continue with its current trend. No need to digress again with non related video clips in order to put some fake credibility on. Or you think TSP will get everyone to get to their peaks? :D

I understand that you are challenged, but now you are continuing to post and that is plain rude so I really have to continue show wrong you are. Graph gives us overview on how much isk average player has. Understood? And at least 1/3 of it will be cost of TSP. Can you finally answer my question, without any bs or additional digression: Will TSP be expensive to average player or not?

Again, you are running to reply anything, failing at the basic understanding. No one said you are doing more. The word used is spending. S P E N D I N G, not D O I N G. Capiche?

b) Wrong, since not much will change. Some people will identify with their chars, with or without tsp some will not. Some will buy chars from character bazaar, some will not. There is not a single fact which can lead you to estimate the numbers and growth you are imagining. Identifying with your char can happen regardless is it the char with the most sp or not, depending on mostly players style and different aspects of game which can affect it. So the answer is still NO new benefit.

e) Please provide a single evidence of that. There is a recruitment forum, provide details about one corp which recruits brand new players and provides them ANYTHING worth 300mil of isk or above. If you cannot, then please admit you are wrong.

g) Production cost is in direct relation with plex (cash). It takes AUR to produce TSP (extractors), AUR can be obtained only by cash purchases. Please read dev blog again. Therefore you are wrong again. Do you even realize how you are looking in public now? :D Thanks

h) Most potential growth for sure. If only TSP was not out of reach for the most of new players who will not be ready to cash it, nor have a friend to buy it for them. Therefore, your speculations are wrong again.

m) Wrong. Would work if there is oversupply of plex. But guess what, there is not enough plexes even currently on the market. What will happen when the demand goes up? Plex price will continue to grow, actually sky rocket if TSP becomes popular. Educate yourself. Please go challenge official market data, can`t wait for it :D

n) I have given you official researches results on some of the key aspects in nowadays business. If you think eve online is not about business and CCP is doing this just to provide us fun, then live in lie Timmy. Since CCP is company which aims to be profitable and since they have to think of their customer base everything mentioned there is quite related to the topic of side effects. Yet you can play it dumb, so far you are doing great, but anyone who actually reads our "discussion" will easily see through your all bs, digressions, twisting out etc. :)

And that are just some of side effects . Seeing your "benefits" list is mythbusted, so far we can see only serious side effects and minor minor benefit for really small number of players.