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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2721 - 2015-12-08 20:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.
Paranoid Loyd
#2722 - 2015-12-08 21:03:29 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction
It has potential, but this is the resounding problem. The dogfighting is fun, but that gets old pretty quick. Everything else is meh.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2723 - 2015-12-08 21:09:53 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.



You know there were expansion sales too...

irregardless, anything you screaming about there helping Eve's numbers stop the bleeding?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2724 - 2015-12-08 23:04:10 UTC
There is nothing wrong with EVE "bleeding" because there's logical reasons for it. They've been mentioned before but people just cry a lot and/or use it for their own purposes. It's not very difficult to understand.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#2725 - 2015-12-08 23:57:56 UTC
I would honestly be more worried if EVE were bleeding because Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous, Star Trek online, or The Old Republic were AMAZING and pulling people away. They're not. As a result regardless of why people are leaving EVE stands as a good a chance as everyone else of winning their business in the future.

I do find neat that the Citadels trailer may actually be very important for growing the playerbase. I hope CCP doesn't screw that up because Citadels are the biggest thing to come to EVE in a long time.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2726 - 2015-12-09 01:18:08 UTC
Rzed Wombat wrote:
The fix to the problem would be the death of eve as we know it.
Simply make it to where when you get blown up your ship appears in your home station intact, you would then have to pay a certain amount to have it repaired or were less effective for a very short while (some minor bane effect) You could even add standing reward per ship type, built into the cost of the ship so the winner would get something out of it.
Do that and you would not have keep trying to come up with ways to get people out of high sec. You would have all the PVP you might want and people would come out with gun's a blazing. More fun for everyone.
Right now, for at least newer players, eve is a game of timers...



Thats no different from playing EVE on SISI, the test server. All ships cost 100 isk, so you can buy and rat in a titan on SISI without worrying about losing your ship.

Which is what makes SIS a great place to perform mock battles, play-fighting as you test out new ships and new tactics and new fits. But thats the extent of its use. No one plays on SISI beyond that, because we know that its meaningless to fight there. There are no real losses.

The reason most people PVP is because the thing they get out of it, is knowing that theyve inflicted a real loss to their opponents, and the thrill of risking an actual portion of isk in ships/modules that will be gone forever. Removing risk from PVP is no fun, just like fighting battles in SIS is no fun, compared to actual combat in tranquility.


Quote:
You could even have a flag...flag selected you can only fire and be fired upon by ships with the station intact enabled, no flag pvp just like it is... What I am wonder is how many of the PVP players would turn the flag on :) I bet it would be a lot.

But I don't know if that would be Eve at all but it sure as hell would be fun.

Yeah I know..sandbox and all that.


What a terrible idea. I bet it would be very very few, because most people in highsec dont engage in PVP unless forced to. It would completely destroy the idea that EVE was built on, which is that NO ONE is safe in EVE, and pressing "undock" is consenting to PVP and turning that "Flag" as you call it, on.

Everything you propose would make eve such a boring game. I suppose a miner who thinks that afk farming while watching a movie is fun, would support your absurd notions, but to the rest of us who actually understand what eve is about, you are no different than someone calling for a complete ban of all PVP in highsec.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2727 - 2015-12-09 01:23:41 UTC
La Rynx wrote:


Why is it so important to shoot at an unarmed / unprepared PvEler instead of an NPC?
What else than the feeling to "pay someone something back"?
Just out of pure spite?
Why do you feel the spite?


Because human interaction is a lot more enjoyable than scripted NPC interaction.

Would you play the same single player mode of a video game, over and over and over again? Wouldnt most people play the multiplayer as well? Arent most people, who play a video game over an extended period of time, more invested in multiplayer than in the single player aspect of a game?

What youre essentially asking, is why we would play 5v5 Dota 2 matches against human players rather than bots or computers. Or why we would play multiplayer Call of Duty instead of the single player campaign over and over again.

None of this is out of spite, its out of enjoyment.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2728 - 2015-12-09 09:20:45 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

New game mechanics mean nothing to people who don't know the game.


If you said it, it must be true!

but on topic , I never said it would, did I? With the new features I more discussed retention and returning players. As far as I know citadels are mainly thought as a part of the null sec ballance act. That the other secs get something is just a side effect. The nullsec Balance IMO is more aimed at getting to people to resub. It could work, it could also not. We will see.

I was just thinking if your above statement is true, wouldn't that imply that adding PvE elements would also not mean anything? As some of them would be bound to have some new game mechanics.

Actually you have convinced me now with your reductive logic. They should just close EVE. There is no hope :D

With the part about getting new players I specifically stated that I think they need to find other ways to get in contact with them, in comparrison to what they are doing now. Then La Rynx sweeped in and apparently gave me my own answers right back in my naive face, with the well supported statement, that you can't make advertisment because people in EVE are S***. How can I compete with fine argumentation like that?

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2729 - 2015-12-09 10:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Gregor Parud wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.


ED is a buy to play game, with paid expansions and a game shop. So far they've released the beta to the first paid expansion, and their shop haves a nice set of ship paintjobs at prices ranging 4 to 7 $, plus paintjob bundles, plus ingame items (bobbleheads...), plus RL stuff likeT-shirts, mugs, baseball caps, et cetera, all at industry standard prices... they have no 3,000 $ levitating scale models of ships like can be seen in other games.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2730 - 2015-12-09 10:08:13 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.


ED is a buy to play game, with paid expansions and a game shop. So far they've released the beta to the first paid expansion, and their shop haves a nice set of ship paintjobs at prices ranging 4 to 7 $, plus paintjob bundles, plus ingame items (bobleheads...), plus RL stuff likeT-shirts, mugs, baseball caps, et cetera, all at industry standard prices... they have no 3,000 $ levitaitng scale models of ships like can be seen in other games.


well why are you still here if ED is soo much better?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2731 - 2015-12-09 10:41:56 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
ED is a buy to play game, with paid expansions and a game shop. So far they've released the beta to the first paid expansion, and their shop haves a nice set of ship paintjobs at prices ranging 4 to 7 $, plus paintjob bundles, plus ingame items (bobleheads...), plus RL stuff likeT-shirts, mugs, baseball caps, et cetera, all at industry standard prices... they have no 3,000 $ levitaitng scale models of ships like can be seen in other games.

I bought ED when it first went on sale. Haven't played it yet, but I'll get around to it eventually and I'm sure I'll like it too. I hope it keeps expanding and developing for many years to come.

On the flip side, if I was a game developer I'd aspire to the possibility that I could eventually offer an $1800 levitating model of something from my game. Reaching that point wouldn't be the sign of a failure. That'd be a massive success, even as a limited run.

I'd be willing to bet that many of those games that offer industry standard prices on mugs, caps, t-shirts, etc. would love to be able to offer a premium product like that Nyx model and have any sort of belief that it would sell.

That CCP have that confidence is a testament to the game, not only because of its longevity, but because we as a community clearly care about it enough that those of us with the means will pay $1800 for something that even our non-gaming friends will think is cool.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2732 - 2015-12-09 10:46:04 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.


ED is a buy to play game


Exactly, and as such you can't compare them just as you can't compare F2P with sub based games.


The rest you mentioned can not pay for an actual service. That is why ED doesn't have a normal server, it's all instanced (with 32 players per instance max, I might add) where one of the CLIENTS acts as the server. It is not a normal MMO in the sense that EVE is and if you can't understand that or grasp the rather obvious and far reaching differences that stem from that, again, we'll just have conclude that all you're doing is "Nothing but coloured assumptions and made up facts to further a cause". As I stated earlier.


But please, if you like the idea of ED so much why are you still here? I got the 120 euro beta when it came out, thinking, HOPING It'd be awesome. Then I quickly realised how limited and painfully meaningless the game is. Have you actually played it?
Solecist Project
#2733 - 2015-12-09 11:11:39 UTC
"where one of the CLIENTS acts as the server."

Holy **** that's so bad on so many levels...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2734 - 2015-12-09 12:00:34 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, ED has sold 800,000 copies in their first year. Do what you please with this number...


And how many still pay for something, anything, the months after that?

Exactly, almost no one. So as a continued MMO it doesn't work because no one would be willing to pay a sub nor are many people making use of the cash shop stuff because there really isn't one much at all. And it they'd change the game so that more people would be inclined to pay for stuff on a regular basis then it would falter.

So your :logic: and :proof: is, as always, nonsense.


It, sadly, lacks any sort of depth and actual interaction you'd expect in an MMO. It's half a game, it's X3 with less bugs.


ED is a buy to play game, with paid expansions and a game shop. So far they've released the beta to the first paid expansion, and their shop haves a nice set of ship paintjobs at prices ranging 4 to 7 $, plus paintjob bundles, plus ingame items (bobleheads...), plus RL stuff likeT-shirts, mugs, baseball caps, et cetera, all at industry standard prices... they have no 3,000 $ levitaitng scale models of ships like can be seen in other games.


well why are you still here if ED is soo much better?


No avatars (yet).
Solecist Project
#2735 - 2015-12-09 12:05:14 UTC
That'll only cost you another 60 bucks, Indah.

And you can bet your sweet candy ass ...
... that you will have to pay small amounts for all kind of avatar related content.

Avatars are a whale-milking-machine.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Rzed Wombat
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2736 - 2015-12-09 15:03:03 UTC
[/quote]
Everything you propose would make eve such a boring game. I suppose a miner who thinks that afk farming while watching a movie is fun, would support your absurd notions, but to the rest of us who actually understand what eve is about, you are no different than someone calling for a complete ban of all PVP in highsec. [/quote]

I get you man...the current system produces memorable white knuckle PVP because of the high risk involved. Its one of those things that is awesome about Eve. I do not however think that it is awesome at attracting new players or promoting PVP..that's all I am saying bro.
And not arguing that if they did something like that it would not be the Eve that we know.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2737 - 2015-12-09 15:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Gregor Parud wrote:



But please, if you like the idea of ED so much why are you still here?


I ask that some question all the time, and they never answer (mainly because they know what the answer means lol).

If there were two things, and I liked on and didn't like the other, I would spend zero time with the one i didn't like. But for some, that same scenario means "take the one i don't like and MAKE IT CONFORM TO MY DESIRES!!!" lol.

It's no different than in real life how some people avoid relationships with people they might actually get along with and who might actually treat them with respect in favor is taking some a-hole who is wholly incompatible with them and trying to change them "for their own good" lol.
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#2738 - 2015-12-09 15:28:04 UTC
Amazing how many online discussions devolve into trolling insult-fests due to differing perceptions, expectations, and personal preferences.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2739 - 2015-12-09 16:14:28 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
That'll only cost you another 60 bucks, Indah.

And you can bet your sweet candy ass ...
... that you will have to pay small amounts for all kind of avatar related content.

Avatars are a whale-milking-machine.


Oh, but they'll need to do it right. I don't want to go around in a silly spacesuit 24/7! Wiil need dresses and skirts and tights and high heels and make up and other options available in other games.

(Although both SC and ED strike me as "boys' games" and can't imagine their developers doing anything really girly...)
Rzed Wombat
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2740 - 2015-12-09 16:56:20 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
La Rynx wrote:


Why is it so important to shoot at an unarmed / unprepared PvEler instead of an NPC?
What else than the feeling to "pay someone something back"?
Just out of pure spite?
Why do you feel the spite?


Because human interaction is a lot more enjoyable than scripted NPC interaction.

Would you play the same single player mode of a video game, over and over and over again? Wouldnt most people play the multiplayer as well? Arent most people, who play a video game over an extended period of time, more invested in multiplayer than in the single player aspect of a game?

What youre essentially asking, is why we would play 5v5 Dota 2 matches against human players rather than bots or computers. Or why we would play multiplayer Call of Duty instead of the single player campaign over and over again.

None of this is out of spite, its out of enjoyment.


Don't back peddle man.. You said "The reason most people PVP is because the thing they get out of it, is knowing that theyve inflicted a real loss to their opponents, " It's sadistic glee, its ok man. People like to play I WIN is what it boils down to, and that is a fine game, its just not overyly conducive to retaining new players. Reminds me of the guys in WOW that stopped level progression so they could enter battlegrounds superior to other players...people complained so much that WOW created special battleground for these folks..and none of them wanted to join them. Pretty much same here..lot of people that want to play I WIN and cause as much grief as possible to their opponent. You said so yourself, although I doubt you see it that way.


Hey man...Eve is a game of grief...thats the game, the sandbox. While I personally like the idea of flaggs, and think that it would promote a LOT of PVP if done right (and my thought was just quick and ill defined), I get what your saying man..it would not be Eve.