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No it's kneejerk at the start, middle, and even just the last page.

And probably a few posts below this.

If you mean feeding them to newbies below 5mil SP (which CCP has kindly demonstrated an intention for them to receive the maximum benefit**) I should clarify that's only my own personal intention.

The cost is likely to mean TSPs will not be that helpful on a scale as large as "the whole coalition's newbie base". But worry not, I'll spend what I can on the newbies I meet on fleets.


**Of course that means the newbies are benefitting from my investment of time into eve. Which is nice for them, since I'll be paying to lose (SP) and won't be making any "SP rankings" anytime soon, eh.



OOOH, maybe you meant we would share delightful quotes about people on the SP lists bitching about it? Ehh well not likely to garner attention unlike the hilarious kickstarter story, you know?

Here is my previous comment you ignore and quote me calling you a liar (a fact):

Rat Scout wrote:

"And so you are suggesting to scrap the TSP feature because of a top 10 list? I can't possibly imagine CCP looking at this as an issue, unless they really don't want to have a little more income.
What income you ask?

Here let's run some numbers:

Bazaar purchase of 20m SP pilot -> 2 plex to CCP -> 36$ +/-

TSP packets used to inject 20m SP -> range of 5-8 PLEX (sorry, marginal error not optimal) ->140-160$, depends on deals used to purchase

Do you really think CCP will scrap TSP based on your feedback regarding top boards on a third party site?"


And now lets move on to your bullet points:



Economics for those who like to play eve with numbers, are you implying this is a negative effect?

What? Piracy is good for EvE

It's not old guy friendly for sure, depends on what friendly means and also if you mean injecting or extracting.

Yes, its is a reskill mechanic at the cost of isk, plex and time with diminishing returns.

RMT for who? The person extracting skill points? he would have to battle the force of plex in every 500m sp, a lot harder then current bazaar sales. Its just a buzzword and if RMT is a problem with TSP it is already a problem with the bazaar.

Economics again, good for the game, higher plax prices are a positive in my opinion (and you can have your opininion, it does not mean it's a negative effect for eve)

same as character farms on the bazaar

how is history irrelevant? If I inject skill points on my main the history stays with me, my history, the only one that is relevant.

and your point is that the nexx store is evil?

instant bazaar purchase? so what? nothing new

My face is comical, yet it's still a fact.

yes you see since TSP is a more resource intensive way of achieving the same thing as the bazaar does it is a much better way to combat RMT. To sell 20m sp you need somewhere around 5-8 plex, trying to balance that with cash against isk is pointless, price would be way too high in RMT, a person could just buy plex from CCP and use that in the bazaar or market for TSP.





create new character as in buy one form the bazaar? or TSP? who cares, its the same thing.

irrelevant to the issues caused by TSP

The bazaar you get what suites you best unless you wait until the best option presents itself, why wait when i can create the perfect alt / main for my needs with a TSP - a lot of difference plus no history to deal with and certainly no consequences with an instant perfect build.

[/quote]
So creating a perfect alt with no history just for the sake of creating it, then deleting it so that it has no history and create a new one? LOL ok go ahead, that makes sense. Or extract SP again to sell for a staggering amount of isk and use dozens of plex, yeah that sounds reasonable.

I see a great new way for CCP to get more income on SP/transaction, you still didn't respond to my post about your real agenda to go against TSP's wich is a top 10 list for people with the most SP in the game.

Clearly I purchased an alt from the bazaar just to post on the forums, is that relevant to TSP's in any way shape or form?

a) So in previous years we had no reasons for people to hit the peak of their earning potential? People did not want new ships, items etc? And now suddenly, players will unite in search for isk? If what yuo are saying had any stand in reality graph would shows peaks before every new expansion. They can, yet it does not happen. Why? Because you are wrong but you will never admit it. 75% Growth over 3 years shows that people are earning more isk (or have less expenses) on a very steady rate, ie they have ~10 mil isk "net profit" each month. 10 millions isk is what remains in average players wallet after one month of income and purchases. As it is quite steady line we can really see it functions like that in average. Peaks can be on some personal basis, but same can drops, in average it is ~10mil isk. People can learn to earn more isk, people can earn more isk yet they do not in the way you suggest. And if we have a cost of TSP which is at least 1 third of that, it is quite a hit for a average wallet. Clear enough to admit you are wrong yet?
b) Your original point is that was a benefit which we get with implementation of TSP. Which is incorrent and I have proven it. Now you are going around it, gathering courage to admit you are wrong (would it be the first time in your life? :D)
e) Only not relevant stuff here are your "explanations and digressions". You can easily answer my question with yes or no - Will corps trust brand new players with item worth hundreds of millions isk?
g) Why do you even need to introduce new term when everything was explained. And you are not answering my question, you just asked another. We can clearly see what happened with PLEX demand rising, Plex is currently over 4 times more expensive than it was in the start. With additional demand prices are going to keep going up. Therefore prices of TSP will go up as well. And more and more people will struggle to plex their accounts meaning more people will quit game. And demand and supply of TSP will drop so there will not be plentiful. But Plex prices wont drop after it.
h) So 300 mil ISK item which provides you with what you get by ~1 week of training will cost a third of average players wallet and you say it is not expensive? Thanks for stating something like that in public, gives a lot of credibility to your posting :)
m) I have already explained you the difference in demand and supply growth. Which part is still unclear so you have to avoid answering my question again? Will the plex prices increase? Simple yes or no is enough.
n) Side effects are presented. Plenty of posts in this thread about them (not just by me) non answered, your ignorance does not mean they are not there. To the question, there is fundamental change, yet you choose to not look at it as it perfectly suits your personal agenda. The functions we had we will still have (ie nothing really sorted) but now we will have new ones which will have a minor benefit for minor group while "the rest choose to feel like they lost" even though YOU think they are not losing (which is obviously wrong as so many people who raised their voice here stated). And guess what, those people are customers of CCP and 1 unhappy customer can make more negative impact than at least 10 happy customers can do in positive direction. Considering this game and community was built mainly by players (thanks ccp for sandbox but players and content they created made eve famous, not ccp marketing). So it is worth thinking not just twice, but multiple times before doing something like that.

Since we live in consumerism, and we are paying customers of CCP services, CCP should know more about it before doing things "just like that". Here are some of the official researches:

For every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent.
96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back
A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people. - while - Happy customers who get their issue resolved tell about 4-6 people about their experience.
70% of buying experiences are based on how the customer feels they are being treated
It takes 12 positive experiences to make up for one unresolved negative experience
It costs 6–7 times more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one

So just based on that you can estimate how many more unhappy customers is out there. No matter you think they do not really lose anything. How will that affect ccp and the game we will see but saying there are no side effects is not just ignorant, its plain stupid.

Example:

As a loyal paying customer of Eve-online for over a decade, for multiple accounts, I am shocked by CCP inconsistency and changing one of the game fundamentals. I am afraid to commit further more to the game as I feel I cannot trust them in the long run, as I cannot be sure some other fundamentals will not be changed, so I have decided to stop paying for their services I will rather go to some other service provider on which I can lean on and be certain that the frame of the sandbox will not change. Considering they have "played" me and my expectations and plans for the game, I will surely express my dissatisfaction to every possible customer they might have, to warn them in time to not waste time on the game which demands long term commitment but you cannot lean on it. As someone who has spend thousands of dollars on it I feel I was not treated as valuable customer and I strongly suggest that everyone avoids it.

That is just a simple version with my Engrish. People will write it with more impact. Thanks to internet it can easily spread. No side effects? Get lost..

Regarding the posting, you failed at explaining anything, let alone proving me wrong. Above is updated list, I am looking forward your "answers".

I totally agree, you have constantly provided empty phrases and digressions. That is the reason why I started simple questions which you can answer with yes or no. Still you avoid that as well :/



I did present them. They are in this thread, publicly available. You chosen to avoid them back when I posted them (you were active on the topic back then) and you avoid to read them now. So feel free to stop with the BS.

Though I am grateful for that, it would be even bigger waste of my time to explain them to you, as you do not seek to understand, you seek just to push your "points" and derail side effects to some of your deflection points. We have enough witnesses for that over these 300 pages :)

But for your convenience I even made one silly sample of side effects kick in. Not the same as my original ones, but I figured out that you really have no idea about market, consumers behaviorism, customer - service provider relations etc, so needed to just give you slight overview. Ie a chance to let you honorably admit defeat due to lack of such perspective and knowledge. Which I, having this experience with you, frankly do not expect. Even if you were the only person against billions you would not admit it. While I value persistence in general, your persistence is vain and pointless.

1) Who cares, as long as you play it dumb, avoid answering questions, go into digressions etc I am certain my opinion is correct
2) Again, focusing on non important things and semantics, we have 300 pages of the topic, majority of posters quite unhappy with the change (see unhappy customers in my previous posts), sending quite clear message to CCP. And while "I am not doing them justice or nothing at all", thankfully I have you as a "proers" white knight in shining armor whose points I am is decimating due to his lack of knowledge and his "high speculations".
3. You have added everything you had, every single line you could use to make that list look worthy. Unfortunately for you, I am here to show you how wrong you are :)

Again, I urge you to focus on the list only. You are already wasting enough of both yours and mine time. While I will never quit until you prove your points in the list or admit being wrong I would still like to save some time. This post is unrelated to the list and each other impressions mean nothing to it or to the topic. Have a nice day!

Wow this is a long forum


You are so right !! its a stupid idea.
You forgot to mention the newbies who joined thinking they were getting to play the game at the same level as others but suddenly find out they have to buy SP to keep up.

So to stop newbies quitting cause they thought they only needed to pay 10 a month
< 5 Million skill points = 0 unallocated skill points added

You also have the hang of this thread.

Oh.

It works the other way around as well, ask the blobbers who keep on finding newbies to add to our blob :)

a) No, in orevious years we didn't have reasons for people to continually peak earning potential. We had reasons for people to meet the earnings goals they set and the ability to set that regardless of what their potential would allow. Further in the last 3 years:
We haven't seen any strong upward fundamental price changes, PLEX aside.
We haven't had any new impetus to hoard isk (make more than spent and actually increase wallet values deliberately).
We haven't developed and reason to consistently peak our earning potential save where that was a specific personal goal.
We know people have significant reserves compared to new released assets (even at 500mill)
We also know those assets won't be universally sought, some shunning till they reach a stable price, others just uninterested.

There is no reason to see peaks before every expansion because those wallets across all players represent trillions of inactive isk waiting to respond to any new supply. It doesn't need to be ground because it's already there in the players wallets. Now the question is going to be, how far are you willing to ignore that players aren't operating at a zero sum game with isk?

b) No you have not. I gave a concrete demonstration of how it worked:
"Now: If a player wants to advance faster than passive training will allow while keeping their identity, they can't. If this goes through: If a player wants to advance faster than passive training will allow while keeping their identity, they can."

Unless you can specifically refute that you haven't disproved anything. The best you've given is "some people don't feel that way" or "they can still keep their old character" which again respectively marginalizes those that do feel that way and doesn't allow association between actions and identity (doing things with your identified character).

e) The question was and is irrelevant, at no point does the expectation of what a specific player would do on the market with 300mill negate the capacity of orgs to give TSP. That's a non-sequitur. One I won't fall for.

g) I used a term I was used to using. And still we're back to the question of will PLEX actually be the guiding price here? I've presented a reason why it wouldn't and would go so far as to say it may not be proced as expected due to any profit point compared to plex making it profitable to self produce over buying.

h) You're still viewing wallet values as a static. And no, no one said it wasn't expensive, in fact the initial point h) made no point of cost, just that this mechanically supported new characters, which it does.

m) And the answer is the same, will "supply" (since we need to make very sure we don't use another word) rise accordingly? If so, no, PLEX will go down, If not, yes, PLEX will go up. It is really simple, you're just inserting your predetermined conclusions.

n) For all those words you'd think you would have actually supported your point with examples but would rather again revert to talking about me. So MY question still stands "what side effects?"

Cutting the rest because it's not relevant to the list.