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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6001 - 2015-12-05 18:57:23 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

That is funny, There is no such item yet as a TSP

It was introduced so it might be such thing in the future. Your captain Pirate
Berrice Silf wrote:
Your just inferring you right to pay 2 advance at present

I defending my right to play 2 boosting advance.


It has not been introduced, its purely a discussion Roll at this present time. There are no patch / release notes on it, Your presumption is mere speculation and wishful tro ...... thinking Big smile
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6002 - 2015-12-05 19:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Berrice Silf wrote:

It has not been introduced, its purely a discussion Roll at this present time. There are no patch / release notes on it, Your presumption is mere speculation and wishful tro ...... thinking Big smile

[sarcasm]Yea, all of this people who wrote in this thread didn't consider it like possible future.Even if they did than it just their speculation [/sarcasm]
Berrice Silf wrote:

Under the new system, the only thing standing between you and the latest FoTM will be a few purchases (whether directly from the market, or via aurum between a 'main' and a 'Farmed' alt's). Rich players will be able to chase the dragon like never before - and poor players will suffer more than they already do in a highly competitive environment.

"Your presumption is mere speculation"
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6003 - 2015-12-05 21:19:11 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

It has not been introduced, its purely a discussion Roll at this present time. There are no patch / release notes on it, Your presumption is mere speculation and wishful tro ...... thinking Big smile

[sarcasm]Yea, all of this people who wrote in this thread didn't consider it like possible future.Even if they did than it just their speculation [/sarcasm]


All of the people who wrote in this thread don't consider it there right to be able buy there way into the game like you. They give there personal representations of how they view it, arguments for and against . After reading through most of it you seem to mimic ,mock and generally misrepresent statements made against it , I couldn't say I've even seen any intellectual comment come from you in this whole thread-naught. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, probably why trolls are drawn to it like moths around light.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6004 - 2015-12-05 21:40:22 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

It has not been introduced, its purely a discussion Roll at this present time. There are no patch / release notes on it, Your presumption is mere speculation and wishful tro ...... thinking Big smile

[sarcasm]Yea, all of this people who wrote in this thread didn't consider it like possible future.Even if they did than it just their speculation [/sarcasm]
Berrice Silf wrote:

Under the new system, the only thing standing between you and the latest FoTM will be a few purchases (whether directly from the market, or via aurum between a 'main' and a 'Farmed' alt's). Rich players will be able to chase the dragon like never before - and poor players will suffer more than they already do in a highly competitive environment.

"Your presumption is mere speculation"

That is not speculation, that's already been worked out about 150 pages ago. If the average pilot is earning 1.5m a month and the clued in pilot is getting very close to 2m a month - If you work on keeping a main under the 50m threshold with 2 farm alts on an account with it you can interchange skills between the 3 with very limited losses incurred. Those 3 could become any FoTM within a few minutes. Like having a personal hot swap character building service at your fingertips.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6005 - 2015-12-05 21:43:39 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:

I couldn't say I've even seen any intellectual comment come from you in this whole thread
...
All of the people who wrote in this thread don't consider it there right to be able buy there way into the game like you.

If you had really read my posts than you must know that I don't even paying for sub.
Berrice Silf wrote:
They give there personal representations of how they view it, arguments for and against .

How thin edge between arguments and speculation.
Berrice Silf wrote:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, probably why trolls are drawn to it like moths around light.

Can I qoute you when someone from your side will be sarcastic? Like
Berrice Silf wrote:
wishful tro ...... thinking
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6006 - 2015-12-05 22:03:24 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:

That is not speculation, that's already been worked out about 150 pages ago. If the average pilot is earning 1.5m a month and the clued in pilot is getting very close to 2m a month - If you work on keeping a main under the 50m threshold with 2 farm alts on an account with it you can interchange skills between the 3 with very limited losses incurred. Those 3 could become any FoTM within a few minutes. Like having a personal hot swap character building service at your fingertips.

"How thin edge between arguments and speculation." Maybe next time you will be more thoughtful before calling opponents opinion "just your speculation" because I can do same thing with yours.

Right reaction on it is
Alexia Atavuli wrote:

I am sure as in all things, there will be crazy (but rare) abuses -- such as the overnight Tengu pilot. The one with lots of skills and no skills at the same time. And like other things before, we will weather them.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6007 - 2015-12-05 22:06:19 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

I couldn't say I've even seen any intellectual comment come from you in this whole thread
...
All of the people who wrote in this thread don't consider it there right to be able buy there way into the game like you.

If you had really read my posts than you must know that I don't even paying for sub.


My previous statement about intellect lends itself well to this very point, Saying you do not pay a sub has nothing at all to do with the fact that you say : Nobody is going to tell me how to play my game my way and if i want to use TSP to speed my training up i will.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6008 - 2015-12-05 22:13:08 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

That is not speculation, that's already been worked out about 150 pages ago. If the average pilot is earning 1.5m a month and the clued in pilot is getting very close to 2m a month - If you work on keeping a main under the 50m threshold with 2 farm alts on an account with it you can interchange skills between the 3 with very limited losses incurred. Those 3 could become any FoTM within a few minutes. Like having a personal hot swap character building service at your fingertips.

"How thin edge between arguments and speculation." Maybe next time you will be more thoughtful before calling opponents opinion "just your speculation" because I can do same thing with yours.

Right reaction on it is
Alexia Atavuli wrote:

I am sure as in all things, there will be crazy (but rare) abuses -- such as the overnight Tengu pilot. The one with lots of skills and no skills at the same time. And like other things before, we will weather them.


I take it you must be quite new to this game with the naivety in your ramblings, Having 3 characters at an optimum 49.5m skill points each. The combinations you could achieve with those is staggering and it's certainly not speculation on current information provided by the developers. Once you hit this point all earned packets could either be stored for other uses or sold.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#6009 - 2015-12-05 22:13:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

a) Anyone with the knowledge to secure isk from in game, the desire to join a group offering them or to find alternative means of getting isk will be able to participate. That covers pretty much anyone who is not actively seeking to avoid isk in some form or another.
b) What we have now is a Bazaar that pits identity and function against each other. This provides an alternate means to get the latter without parting with the former. Thus it promotes greater association with ones identity.
d) That's what I stated so I'll count that as an agreement.
e) What trust issue exists? Those same players will over time have more capable characters as is and further as the AWOXing crowd has demonstrated that risk is realized as is.
f) Because the increase in availability and visibility on the Bazaar are benefits, regardless of whether stated in the op or not.
g) No, the amount depends on the number of accounts with wasted training potential which have nothing but potential gain from this on top of profitability encouraging others.
h) Considering one of those investments that can be made is learning the game, yeah, we should have that expectation.
i)/j) Yes, again, just because it's stated in the op doesn't make it any less beneficial. That's a non-argument.
k) Ok, so we don't want people in space doing things? Or are we pretending an option becomes a mandate?
l) No, it doesn't make this a grinding game. It gives an optional supplement to normal training. No grind needed because the product isn't needed. Those that desire it will have every means they already engage in to pursue it. Further, the flawed logic here is that every addition to the game that can be traded for isk makes it more of a grinding game by the same reasoning, but no one argues that.
m) There was a pretty big explanation there including defining it as highly speculative. You're just pointing out what I already wrote
n) Considering how many brought it up as a balancing point for the Bazaar being acceptable I would think it significant, but even if not, so long as it happens the point stands.
o) The request wasn't for crucial, just beneficial.


a) This is one of the reasons why I am calling you ignorant. You look only through your own POV. If you have isk, everyone has it. Do you know that average isk amount on active characters is ~500mils? So obviously not everyone has the time, knowledge, skills, willingness to make isk. And this will push even more people in grinding, like there is not enough
b)No, what we have now are original characters as well. I have this character since 2003, I am quite identified with it. Again, ignorant view that if you bought char everyone did
d) I said there is no additional benefit, market item will "behave" as any other market item? Btw, by your logic plexes should be cheaper than ever since supply is bigger than ever but it obviously is not like that?
e) So you are saying that corps will recruit new players and give them hundreds millions of isk? If you do not see what is wrong with that assumption I really cant be arsed to explain you.
f) Only if you think on visibility over char bazaar? In every other way it will be the same like for any other market item
g) No, the amount of people willing to sell their "extra" sp will depend only on price. If it is cheap they will wait till it goes up in price rather than sell it for peanuts.
h) Learning the game by buying sp? You kidding?
i/j) I did not say it is "less beneficial" (even though i do think its quite opposite) but reason for putting that on the list can be only to make the list look bigger
k) We want them of course, but things which will make them stick to the game, not get bored of grinding and quit before experiencing everything the game can offer and eventually finding their own place in the universe
l) For this you have too look out of space game terms. It is about behaviorism, same like consumers society nowadays. It will push more people in grinding isk since EVERYONE wants more SP.
m) Highly speculative in the wrong direction with no touch with reality. That is why I had to point it out. One thing is certain, it will never be cheap
n) If bazaar wasnt "acceptable" it would not work, no one would purchase chars. If that was the real bottleneck it would be quite easy to fix it, sold chars can change names for fixed price and have mark in their employment history that they were sold or something like that. This does not fix it as bazaar will still work as people will surely continue buying chars above 25/50//80 mil sp since they will be cheaper than developing your own one instantly.
o) Ok, I can agree that couple % of players might find it beneficial

So, back to my question in that post: Do you have any real benefit, a game changer for good? Something which will surely help A LOT of player base, not something for 1% of it?

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know

General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6010 - 2015-12-05 22:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Berrice Silf wrote:

Saying you do not pay a sub has nothing at all to do with the fact that you say

Thats why I trying to qoute important sentences
Berrice Silf wrote:

comment come from you in this whole thread
...
right to be able buy there way into the game like you.

I just doubt that you had read whole theard.

Berrice Silf wrote:

you say: Nobody is going to tell me how to play my game my way and if i want to use TSP to speed my training up i will.

Please quote my actual words or I consider it as nasty "straw man" trick.
Berrice Silf wrote:

I take it you must be quite new to this game with the naivety in your ramblings, Having 3 characters at an optimum 49.5m skill points each. The combinations you could achieve with those is staggering and it's certainly not speculation on current information provided by the developers. Once you hit this point all earned packets could either be stored for other uses or sold.

Should I be upset with that?
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6011 - 2015-12-05 22:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#6012 - 2015-12-05 22:50:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
And we're still having that discussion, save the fact that a few fundamental questions asked of you aren't answered.


Yea, I had to draw it for you to be sure you can understand. Which fundamental questions I have not answered?

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I've challenged you several times to explain why this would bring about the detriment you claim or more specifically state the reason why inequalities in SP are only not allowable for reasons other than time. You've done everything but that.

Instead you make assumptions about personal benefit, shift into a character attack that literally does everything but address the questions asked of you, then play it off as someone else' ignorance.

So the questions still stand, but given the assumption of self serving malice evident in your tone here I don't expect it since you're either deflecting at this point, don't have an answer, or consider yourself above justifying your position. Either way, you aren't convincing anyone with such an intellectually lazy stance.


I have pointed you to go and read my posts on this subject multiple times. Yet you are ignorant enough to do it but "attack" me because I am too lazy to copy/paste them? Bravo, shows that you do not care about discussion but "your win" only.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
No, it's called anecdote, because it's anecdotal. What you've done is state that you've noticed "x" or seen "y." The thing is you are one player. One player who has met a limited number of players and I'm willing to bet has not in any tangible way tried to link training and experience in any provable fashion. If you had you would have presented it I would think. But you haven't. You made the same mistake that every anecdotal argument makes, that thinking your limited observations are both correct without any means of assuring the data you're getting is accurate or controlled, and further assuming it expands to all players, including the many you've never met.

Personal experience without controls or method is anecdote.


Ok, since we are all living anecdotical lives and our own experience drives us through business, love, life etc I have equalized it with the game experience as well. My experience have shown me the heights in every aspect of the game I wanted to explore. I never made power point presentation of it though so you are right, I do not have any tangible way. Even though you are going further and claiming something I did not say, ie I did not generalize I just said that there was a small percent of those whose skills were above their sp. No need to "put the word" in my mouth, thank you.

On the other hand, I assume you have something remotely resembling actual proof that proficiency and training times are not linked in any manner? Since you are insisting in researches done in some tangible way, please provide me the one you have related to Eve Online I am really eager to read it. Thanks in advance.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I'm sorry, who am I responding to? Is it you? Wouldn't that suggest the the easiest way to get me to respond to a point is to present it rather than deflect to a 300 page thread that I've been active in for a month and a half?

But if you think it not worthwhile, feel free to stop posting. You save both of us time and effort. I won't have to challenge you to defend your position, you won't have to make excuses to not do so. If you truly think the argument without merit, which is an odd thing to state here as you state otherwise earlier in this same post, the obvious thing to do is stop.

I could also do without the character attacks of needing to be "ignorant" or "self-serving," but I'm becoming more certain that you specifically cannot separate disagreement with deep seated flaws and as such will continue despite the irony of accusing others as trolls.


It`s not worthwhile, but I still have to point out on some BS i see (like TSP is same like we already have etc). In order to challenge me to defend my position you would have to go and read my posts on this subject first. I am looking forward to those challenges.

Other than that please help to provide questions I have not answered? If you are referring to the ones where you demanded official research proofs, please be kind and provide the researches which claim otherwise. So I can reply in professional manner, chapter by chapter :)

I am sorry, but sooner you realize you are ignorant and then realize that you cannot look only through your own perspective, you will grow as a person. You should actually be thankful for me pointing that out :) In previous post I have even gave you clear example of that (under a).

Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a troll. Never. I actually think you are quite smart guy, just too egocentrical and looking through his own eyes only. I can understand that your skills in game are progressing faster than your sp and that that is the main reason for pushing this, but again not everyone is you and not everyone has the same abilities. This is MASS mporg, we need MASS to keep it alive and introducing something that might help 1% of player base is not something mass needs. Especially not when the potential side effects are huge. So please, once again, I am not trying to insult you to get you out of discussion. I just want you to look wider. If you want good change for the game think from POV`s of other players as well. If you are looking only for personal gain, then we will never be able to agree about anything.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6013 - 2015-12-05 23:09:19 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
a) This is one of the reasons why I am calling you ignorant. You look only through your own POV. If you have isk, everyone has it. Do you know that average isk amount on active characters is ~500mils? So obviously not everyone has the time, knowledge, skills, willingness to make isk. And this will push even more people in grinding, like there is not enough
b)No, what we have now are original characters as well. I have this character since 2003, I am quite identified with it. Again, ignorant view that if you bought char everyone did
d) I said there is no additional benefit, market item will "behave" as any other market item? Btw, by your logic plexes should be cheaper than ever since supply is bigger than ever but it obviously is not like that?
e) So you are saying that corps will recruit new players and give them hundreds millions of isk? If you do not see what is wrong with that assumption I really cant be arsed to explain you.
f) Only if you think on visibility over char bazaar? In every other way it will be the same like for any other market item
g) No, the amount of people willing to sell their "extra" sp will depend only on price. If it is cheap they will wait till it goes up in price rather than sell it for peanuts.
h) Learning the game by buying sp? You kidding?
i/j) I did not say it is "less beneficial" (even though i do think its quite opposite) but reason for putting that on the list can be only to make the list look bigger
k) We want them of course, but things which will make them stick to the game, not get bored of grinding and quit before experiencing everything the game can offer and eventually finding their own place in the universe
l) For this you have too look out of space game terms. It is about behaviorism, same like consumers society nowadays. It will push more people in grinding isk since EVERYONE wants more SP.
m) Highly speculative in the wrong direction with no touch with reality. That is why I had to point it out. One thing is certain, it will never be cheap
n) If bazaar wasnt "acceptable" it would not work, no one would purchase chars. If that was the real bottleneck it would be quite easy to fix it, sold chars can change names for fixed price and have mark in their employment history that they were sold or something like that. This does not fix it as bazaar will still work as people will surely continue buying chars above 25/50//80 mil sp since they will be cheaper than developing your own one instantly.
o) Ok, I can agree that couple % of players might find it beneficial

So, back to my question in that post: Do you have any real benefit, a game changer for good? Something which will surely help A LOT of player base, not something for 1% of it?

a) No, I make no assumption about whether or not someone has isk. The only assumption I make is that people are free to pursue isk and/or the knowledge of how to better pursue isk. That a person chooses not to do so or chooses to do so for a minimum of what thy need doesn't mean others should be denied the option to do so. The reason your assumption of ignorance is itself ignorant is because you've conflated being able to earn isk at will with constantly having an abundance then assuming I'm in the boat of having that abundance.
b) If you want to selectively ignore the effects of the Bazaar, fine. I'm not willing to pretend it has no effect on new players when CCP says it does due to them being active amongst the buyers.
d) The benefits of being on the market are the benefits of being on the market, yes. Which is a benefit over the Bazaar system and it's current non-existant alternatives. That other items already have this benefit doesn't detract from that.
e) I'm saying that some already do, so why would they stop? If you're pretending this doesn't happen via SRP for those orgs that offer it maybe you should reconsider the extent of your experience. I've been in corps that offered free T3s w/ subs for fleet purposes after only being there 2 weeks. Does that means everyone will? No, but that wasn't the claim.
f) See d)
g) So youre saying that those with non-training accounts that are already PLEXing from other activities will snub the extra income and internally speculate to a reasonable degree with such a low barrier of entry (hint: There's a reason no one speculates on common items outside of game play mechanical changes)? Please feel free to explain.
h) No, learning the game to secure isk to buy SP.
i/j) A list of benefits was asked for, not a list of prior unstated benefits
k) Considering the current scenario often consists of simply waiting out skills while docked and logger out is a thing, even grinding gets people in game, doing things, and thus interacting, and from there more likely finding their place.
l) For the reasons above that's in every way better than simply waiting that SP out since currently there is a complete divorce between a thing everyone wants and the combined things everyone does.
m) Considering the claims of "buying progress" and "P2W" the influx of PLEX should be significant, which will depress in game prices. That's a logical conclusion based on something we both acknowledge, the PLEX > SP is a path some will use. Further, if you're right and SP will only be sold at PLEX profitability it ensure that PLEX introduced to buy SP will outnumber PLEX used to create TSP. It's speculative but at the basic level the math works out.
n) No claim was made that at any level of total SP bought would be cheaper with TSP. With a set AUR cost for extractor there is no way that could be true. But that was never a stated benefit. And no, it's not a bottleneck either, it's a side effect and your solution creates new openings for abuse (for the price of 2 PLEX you go from "criminal" to "unknown").

To your question, this list. But I guess when dismissiveness and unfounded assumptions are your basis for interpretation it's easy to miss.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6014 - 2015-12-05 23:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Don ZOLA wrote:
Yea, I had to draw it for you to be sure you can understand. Which fundamental questions I have not answered?
The ones in the very next portion of the quote. For your convenience:

"explain why this would bring about the detriment you claim or more specifically state the reason why inequalities in SP are only not allowable for reasons other than time"

Quote:
I have pointed you to go and read my posts on this subject multiple times. Yet you are ignorant enough to do it but "attack" me because I am too lazy to copy/paste them? Bravo, shows that you do not care about discussion but "your win" only.
So basically your defense for not posting your points is to point out how easy it would be to do so yet still refuse? Then insult someone else for not doing it for you? Yeah, that's intellectually lazy.

Quote:
Ok, since we are all living anecdotical lives and our own experience drives us through business, love, life etc I have equalized it with the game experience as well. My experience have shown me the heights in every aspect of the game I wanted to explore. I never made power point presentation of it though so you are right, I do not have any tangible way. Even though you are going further and claiming something I did not say, ie I did not generalize I just said that there was a small percent of those whose skills were above their sp. No need to "put the word" in my mouth, thank you.

On the other hand, I assume you have something remotely resembling actual proof that proficiency and training times are not linked in any manner? Since you are insisting in researches done in some tangible way, please provide me the one you have related to Eve Online I am really eager to read it. Thanks in advance.
Yeah, we are living anecdotal lives save when we put forth specific and targeted efforts to gather data relevant and accurate on a larger scale. You've provided nothing that suggests you've done that. Rather, you looked to memories gathered while not going through that effort and are now presenting them as proof despite again, having gone through any effort to make sure it's not.

And yes, you are making a statement for all players, which is that they fall into your observations, on top of the assumptions that your observations are correct. It doesn't matter what % you place above or below the rule because you're still placing them within this logic you've created. So no, it's not placing words in your mouth since yes, you did make a series of statements about the whole of SP vs proficiency.

As for me, I'm fine being honest and saying that while I've seen a fair and good number of people well outpace the proficiency their SP says they should have, it's highly anecdotal and thus not worth much of anything.

Quote:
It`s not worthwhile, but I still have to point out on some BS i see (like TSP is same like we already have etc). In order to challenge me to defend my position you would have to go and read my posts on this subject first. I am looking forward to those challenges.

Other than that please help to provide questions I have not answered? If you are referring to the ones where you demanded official research proofs, please be kind and provide the researches which claim otherwise. So I can reply in professional manner, chapter by chapter :)

I am sorry, but sooner you realize you are ignorant and then realize that you cannot look only through your own perspective, you will grow as a person. You should actually be thankful for me pointing that out :) In previous post I have even gave you clear example of that (under a).

Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a troll. Never. I actually think you are quite smart guy, just too egocentrical and looking through his own eyes only. I can understand that your skills in game are progressing faster than your sp and that that is the main reason for pushing this, but again not everyone is you and not everyone has the same abilities. This is MASS mporg, we need MASS to keep it alive and introducing something that might help 1% of player base is not something mass needs. Especially not when the potential side effects are huge. So please, once again, I am not trying to insult you to get you out of discussion. I just want you to look wider. If you want good change for the game think from POV`s of other players as well. If you are looking only for personal gain, then we will never be able to agree about anything.
I keep giving you the same questions, you either refuse to answer or deflect to 300 pages of thread. I'm not going to oblige you being to lazy to copy/paste.

While still saying it's both worthwhile and not worthwhile in the same post. It either is for addressing the things you see as fallacies, or isn't. Make a choice because we're both wasting words on your self contradictions at this point.

Also, I wasn't saying you were calling me a troll. I was saying it was amusing how trollish you were being while calling others trolls. A trend you seem fine with continuing the former part of.

One other thing that just struck me as funny, you keep saying my viewpoint comes from a myopic way of thinking, but it seems you have a pretty clearly myopic view of me. Most of your posts that do address any point try to default to this "if you personally weren't 'x' you would see this differently" stance. Try separating yourself from that for a sec, first because it increases the quality of your arguments, second because you've been almost completely wrong.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6015 - 2015-12-06 00:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Don ZOLA wrote:

I have this character since 2003, I am quite identified with it. Again, ignorant view that if you bought char everyone did

I was wrong... you are not only arrogant, you are ignorant too because if you did't bougth any char from bazaar it doesn't mean that others doing things in way you do.
Don ZOLA wrote:

I am sorry, but sooner you realize you are ignorant and then realize that you cannot look only through your own perspective, you will grow as a person. You should actually be thankful for me pointing that out :)

Then you should actually be thankful for me pointing out that you are arrogant. Blink
Don ZOLA wrote:

Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a troll. Never. I actually think you are quite smart guy, just too egocentrical and looking through his own eyes only.

Please keep in mind that I did not refer to you as a dumbass. I actually think you are quite nice guy, just sometimes you become too arrogant concern troll
Don ZOLA wrote:

I am not trying to insult you to get you out of discussion. I just want you to look wider

Do you think angry people looking wider? Or do you think people can accept your position with no emotion when you calling them delusional and ignorant? I'm not trying to upset you, by posting inflammatory messages with the deliberate intent of provoking you into an emotional response. I just want to show you that behavior isn't acceptable with other(non-troll) people.
Don ZOLA wrote:

This is MASS mporg, we need MASS to keep it alive and introducing something that might help 1% of player base is not something mass needs.
...
Do you have any real benefit, a game changer for good? Something which will surely help A LOT of player base, not something for 1% of it?

You have no actual statistic, only repeated "1%".
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6016 - 2015-12-06 00:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

I have this character since 2003, I am quite identified with it. Again, ignorant view that if you bought char everyone did

I was wrong... you are not only arrogant, you ignorant too because if you did't bougth any char from bazaar it doesn't mean that others doing things in way you do.
I wanted to do a call out on that one as another example of his character fallacy construction, but post character limit. Beyond that though, what I'm getting from this is he's been around since the beginning. That could well mean he's never had any need of the Bazaar since it could never provide him what he didn't already have in any enticing manner.

As such he's basically saying that since he doesn't have any conflict as a result of his tenure, saying others might makes you "ignorant" and means you bought a character.

Don, you're making up ideal opponents in a pretty obvious fashion here and further actually being myopic. I've never bought a character, but that doesn't mean I can't strive to understand the motivations of those who have or are considering it. You seem unwilling to make that same effort given your post here, and further assume no one else can or will, thus they must have bought a character if the don't agree with you.

You assume that if a person advocates something be bought for isk they have an abundance of it to use for that purpose.

You assume from your anecdote that experience tends to match SP. Edit: And further never actually stated why that would actually matter in a game that gives you room to fail.

To be frank, this is the quality I'm working with and you think this reasoning so sound that I should do the legwork in finding it's foundation. Problem is I find it to be biased and horribly unsound and expect the foundation to be just as poor given what I'm getting now. Given that I'm not willing to expend that effort only to find there's nothing of merit there.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6017 - 2015-12-06 09:50:51 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Given that I'm not willing to expend that effort only to find there's nothing of merit there.

This is basically eveo: the kneejerk portal.

There's not much of merit here

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6018 - 2015-12-06 18:41:09 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
you say: Nobody is going to tell me how to play my game my way and if i want to use TSP to speed my training up i will.

Please quote my actual words or I consider it as nasty "straw man" trick.

General Lootit wrote:
I'm can pursuit only one goal at the time. And I want to trade my active playing hours(isk) for boosting my SP to be able progress faster at my plan.

General Lootit wrote:
Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done.

General Lootit wrote:
I give you my personal reason why it must be implemented. I need a better way than bazaar to exchange my isks for SP. Now I waiting while skill traning happens to change my in-game activity. I rather play more to earn isks for Packet than waiting until ends of time.


Sort of the same theme running through them all me me me me, Its massive multiplayer not massive single player game, ive saved the best one for last but will have to stick it into another post to many quotes.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6019 - 2015-12-06 18:45:09 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players had much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do.


So your entire eve career spans a few months, What an insightful person you must be to glean your knowledge onto everyone and share your vast experiences Shocked
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6020 - 2015-12-06 19:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Berrice Silf wrote:

Sort of the same theme running through them all me me me me, Its massive multiplayer not massive single player game, ive saved the best one for last but will have to stick it into another post to many quotes.

You could use bold font for quoting to bypass a limit. I forced to post messages like this becuse some people keep telling that it won't help noobs and I giving them counter example. And as I said
General Lootit wrote:

I have no permit to speaking for all of us(noobs) ... and I'm pretty much sure you too.