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SP traiding will make SP boosting more accessible for thoose players who cannot or wont to spend large amount of isk at once how it happening on bazaar. So your argument seems not convenient to me.


Tell it to Vahligmarr or any other person who shouting "Pay to win!"

I assuming that she want to be competitive but wont compete with SP.


I need to do something in the game to be able to buy TSP and I can't call it "instant gratification". But now I watching how my SP growing with no action from my side. I think it some sort of lazy gratification.

"We all know CCP makes mistakes," is not and will never be a force that can deter CCP from making changes. You admit to knowing this, yet seem to be trying to act against it. That's not a sane stance. It's one you can never win if their will is against you, and makes for anything but convincing reasoning when the person giving it is still subbed.

Sorry, but that argument is anything but.

I'm not having this conversation for CCPs sake. I'm having it because I cannot fathom the mechanical attachment people have to the exact implementation of training. Further I can't understand why most do so when the best endorsement they give is that it's "unique" while overlooking that it's still very unique as proposed.

And no, it's changing one aspect of a system, which people keep saying is a fundamental, but the proposal pretty much proves isn't since the entire rest of the system can withstand the change without adjustment. That makes it essentially not fundamental, but an important factor for some for reasons that still aren't explained.

So basically a whole lot of anecdote coupled with the failure to actually demonstrate a link between training and player proficiency. Time and proficiency yes, but we aren't using an XP system that rewards practice with progress. That's the breakdown here. What you train and what you do have no specific reason to be interrelated.

Thus a link between SP and player skill cannot be established nor proven correctly paced for anyone much less everyone.

And I've written more than my fair share addressing those same supposed issues, exploits and reasons. You don't even need to read the whole thread. Just look at my post history. You'll see why any appeal to review the thread can be discarded as, by my participation alone as evidence, I was there as the arguments were made the n'th time and responded to them like it was the first for much of the thread.

I've been willing to represent my reasonings repeatedly. That you won't do so when their challenges doesn't obligate me to do your legwork.

SP boosting for actual new players can be done in other and consistent/equal ways. But really the TSP method CCP is proposing is all about not brand new players and their $.

You wont find me liking the character bazaar and the pricing there. I have never bought a character. If I wanted an alt I created one the same way I created all my other characters. But I understand that CCP felt it was the only way to combat the rmt exchange of characters. RMTs that had the actual and potential results of rl scams of various sorts that CCP had to get caught up in through support tickets.

What you call lazy gratification is in my view patient gratification. And simply owning a subscription will not help your future whatever pilot. You play, you learn, and you patiently wait for the skills to train while doing the two preceding.

a) Not needed, but that doesn't express any negativity to this approach
b) Read it. That's all I can say. If you don't want to engage yourself with basic interpretation of words I'mm not going to keep investing time in addressing you.
c) And? I've already addressed how SP inequalities can't be game breaking else SP itself is game breaking. If having SP isn't game breaking, buying SP can't be game breaking. I suppose you may be going for the angle of "buying anything is bad," but again, that ship sailed with PLEX, more relevantly with PLEX + Bazaar.

Also no, money enable the accruing of SP over time. Doubling SP is just a matter of another sub. The relationships between SP and money are and have always been a constant.
n) How so considering SP and reputation are unrelated?
o) It would, while leaving some of the other benefits unaddressed, thus making it a lesser solution

Further, combining all of the individual aspects still leaves holes. Specifically doing the opposite of n), not being as effective at a) in any way that implants aren't now, ignoring c) (no noted affect on character costs and no alternative that is actually new), ignoring k)/l) (again we're just shifting learning implants which I see as being lower demand), and complicates o) by tuning 2 commodities into 2 + a whole new class of commodity that unlike every other market item will have variance on each and every one, meaning creating a whole new submarket. As it's own idea sure, it has merit, but as comparative benefits for effort to achieve these goals no, it doesn't measure up.

Edit: And again, I'll ask why people are so willing to pervert the time system to extremes but say trading time between characters is game breaking?

Thanks Tyberius for the continuous attempts to explain where and what the base has to be before we can actually discuss the potential issues that may arise.

I ran out of patience, having a 2 and 3 year old at home takes up a lot of my expandable will to help others.

Not quite right there.

A better option would be if they buy 2 mill SP then they can't train any skills at all for 2 months at the cost of 2 Plexes. The general idea is that it's better to train skills regularly but if you want SP injection immediately then it's gonna take twice as long to train for anything else. They would be allowed to do this only 3 times a year every 2 months.

They are whiney about sp right now(what a paradox). The idea was introduced by CCP, not by me. You was a noob but you passed that line long time ago.

Apparently back then there was no guy with near to 200m SP and 4 accounts too.

Bad influence of

I could say same thing about

The real drawback of your idea is that it wouldn't allow Mittens to buy himself into full skills. With my idea, he would just need 20 years worth of subscription first.

It was just explanation why considering side effects matters, not a theme for digression. Ie they should really evaluate all side effects in advance before just making decision as obviously the most of them in last years were wrong and they did not have plan how to handle side effects. Or they simply did not have a proper vision of side effects. Still, something we need to point out to them if they cannot realize it on their own.



I am not having this conversation for CCPs sake either. I`m having it because I would prefer game healthy than dead. It is perfectly fine that you cannot understand how other people perceive it as you are commenting from your own ignorant pov, looking at your own interest. Buying sp is not unique, it will make eve same as any other mmorpg which has similar functions (pay to advance).



No. Training will give you more proficiency than time. Ie someone who knows what he is doing can defeat someone who has more sp in subjected area, be it pvp, trade or whatever. Ie you spending time to get BS 5 does not mean anything if I can kill you with BS 1 simply because I have better knowledge than you.

And it is not called anecdote, it is experience which comes from spending years in the game and meeting numerous people from all segments of the game.



You have just shown that you have no idea what I am talking about. And I do not blame you, you have not read my posts and I do not care to rewrite them or even link them. Though I find you ignorant or delusional (if you really think you are successfully discarding them without even knowing what they are about). But still you are doing the discussion in civilized manner and that is what distinguishes you from the most of others "proers" who are in the most cases not more than trolls :) As I mentioned I do not think this or any other discussion is actually worth time as decision makers do not really communicate with us and we can go on for years here. At this point, only time can tell who was right. I really hope it would be you because the game would become better (no matter if I like the change or not, main reason for my posting is sake of game), but based on my knowledge and experience I really doubt it.

Understood - Will log in immediately and turn off all training