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So, to get things straight, as most people who are against this put it:

- If I, a new EvE player who tried it in Trial, decide to cash my account with @500$ in plex, sell and get +-25B in ISK, go on the Bazaar and buy a 50Mil SP toon, it's okay. Even if it has a bad reputation etc, even if I don't know wtf I'm doing in a ship, for everybody who'll see me behind that Chart, it's okay. For a few weeks/months, until everybody acknowledges the new Owner, it's okay.
- EvE online, through the eyes of one of my best friend is exactly like this:

"You don't need to harvest experience from game, you just need some ISK from time to time to afford ships and modules and implants and whatnot, but besides that, your game presence is not needed. You can PLEX for 2 Years straight, and come back from time to time to check your Skill Queue to have something in there. EvE Online is not like any other RPG in which you must grind, like WoW for example. In WoW, with boosts, you can reach max level in less than one week. You can get the gear you like, it gives you the awesome feeling of being able to do everything. Until... Until you reach specific raids and dungeons. In there you see who knows what and who's Daddy's Boy/Girl."

- Even if CCP implement this TSP stuff, there is one thing they won't be able to sell for Money, Plex, ISK, AUR, which is game experience. An old player will know what a ship is capable of, bait fits, troll fits, good fits, bad fits etc, will know what rewards does a complex yield, will know which rats trigger the next spawn, will know relic sites are better than data sites, will know when to de-aggro and save his ship, will know when to use a Booster, and many other examples. Game experience is the most important part, compared to whatever you will imply being pay to win. As a matter of fact, I would love to see some EvE Leeroy Jenkins here, just to prove a point.

- Instead of implementing TSP, why not give implants that give a certain amount of attributes, for a specific amount of time, for a specific account. Kinda like when I made my account. I received an Implant that gave me +17 to all attributes, the Advanced Cerebral Accelerator. Was gaining SP like crazy. Instead of making this 7 days, why not making the same as for Skill packets, based on the total skill points trained before consumption:

0 – 5 million skillpoints = Implant of +17 until 5mil SPs
5 – 50 million skillpoints = Implant of +14 until 50 Mil SPs
50 – 80 million skillpoints = Implant of +11 until 80 Mil SPs
> 80 million skillpoints = Implant of +7 (like the Elite ones released couple years ago) until further notice

In my honest opinion, this would make things easier and will solve many complaints. Just like in real life (as some may say), if you did wrong, it's forgiven but not forgot.

So what's the problem then? Since you've taken the initiative to make this claim despite knowing it's a false representation of my position, lets have you justify it. You kinda need to since you just did the opposite. You just said they aren't winning, but defined this as pay to win. Make up your mind or justify how buying an aspect that doesn't convey victory is paying to win.

Bullshit. Money was never not the deciding factor. SP comes from paid accounts. Non-paid accounts can't generate it. The longer you've had your money put into accessing the game (or in the case of PLEX someone else') the more potential SP you have. My advantage over a new player is 5 years worth of sub price.

And the point of all the Pro comments in opposition to that reasoning is that your justification is a self serving twist of facts trying to make this P2W apply selectively to this idea but somehow not to:

1) Veteran players with the advantages of SP, which are definitively characterized as winning
2) The fact that money does and has for some time equaled sp due to needing an active sub to accrue it

There is nothing to get beyond realizing that some people don't want their veteran ivory towers to be encroached by others who haven't waited years for reasons that have no justification besides "it's always been that way." They'll gloss over, as you just did, the fact that those advantages are a) not insurmountable, else the SP system would in itself be gamebreaking to begin with, and b) open to anyone who had a desire and will to take advantage of the game's isk earning avenues to eliminate any real money need.

SP is only immutable because the current rules make it so, not because it needs to be in order to function. If you don't believe SP is winning, you're holding on to a justification that holds no weight.

If you are paying a subscription to CCP, everything you paid in the subscription should be all in, it is bit silly that you have to pay again for like an pair of jeans or some other ingame item. CCP is going more Pay to Win having a pay to buy SP is just a bad idea it total wrongs the way eve online is.

Just a shame that CCP only cares more about the money then it paying player base and not to listen to it paying player base,

Ok It's clear to me now, you are a troll

No, you're making a mistake in your conclusion as will be demonstrated.

No, P2W is not a financial model itself. P2W is a means of encouraging players to spend more. P2W is just a side effect of games trying to create incentives for players to part with their money for an advantage.

One of the core tenets there is that the only means to have a certain advantages is real money. That isn't the case as proposed for buying TSP (and is quite frankly already the case for time gated SP as things stand). One cannot exchange real money for TSP unless creating it from their own SP via extractors. And further they must do so for loss if they intent to re-inject it for other skills.

So basically one can pay for isk at the expense of the SP they gain over time. So essentially PLEX with more effort and potentially more volatile return.

For the buyer of the TSP cask via PLEX is an option, but as stated there is no reasoning that justifies the idea of SP needing to be treated differently than anything else aside from appeals to the way it has been and inconsistent measures of importance (it's not too important to deny new players, but is too important to allow them access?). Further real money cost isn't mandated either. Rather any real money solution requires sufficient in game earners to make the system work.

Sure, I'll take a look, but honestly given the issues with the statements thus far I don't think we'll come to an agreement.

The quote I agree with; what I don't agree with is the idea that this change creates that scenario.

Does that help clear things up a bit?

Reading some of the posts, it looks like eve will become "world of spaceships" . no more mining, just buy "premium currency". Logi is nerfed (why not just kill it off). manufacturing won't be needed, CCP can just let you buy the ships. All of those crafty haulers won't be needed as there will be no manufacturing.

The idea of the lore and the only common thread left is going to be irrelevant. It doesn't make spaceships go boom faster. PLEX will be an active requirement just to stay relatively competitive. Kind of like the backwards move for games on touch screen devices. 2D is easier to digest and the easy access of that technology make it another mind numbing experience.

The idea of instant gratification is king. I like eve because it is a journey as much as a game. Lets just be like all of the other MMO's. Of course, the turn over will be high, but hey, let it role the cash until it burns out in 3-5 years.

Lets just milk eve for cash until Valkyrie and gunjack displace it in revenue.

How this ever came to the fore front of a game that was based on history, lore and a common thread that all players had to endure. Everyone could relate to and even respect the diligence of those who trained regularly.

Oh, well. I guess PvP is the only real cash generator for CCP. So, pew pew goes the multi faceted sandbox of old eve and in comes the straight line logic tree of show me the money. Pay to win or not. The older comments of dumbing down the game are gaining more relevance.

It appears that the squeeky wheels will win as the older guys have no approval of the whole social network model of mob rule.

I am glad to have the friends online that I have found as long as they last before boredom runs them off as well.

http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2933/learningcurve4.jpg

I wonder if the dev's or the CSM are still following this thread..........

Everybody who is suggesting that TSP's are a bad thing somehow ignore the fact that everything they complain about already exists in EvE via the character bazar. Not a single complaint is strictly caused by the changes, but rather current flaws in the game are used as a logical fallacy.

I cant respond with sensible arguments to your complaints because they are true today and will be whether CCP goes ahead with this version of TSP or not.

Bitter-vet syndrome is not a good excuse to throttle progression when the possibility of improvement for EvE is at least 50%

It is kind of pointless to discuss with you when you start with lie, but I have no problem to stress it again. On character bazaar you can buy characters. You do not have option to buy SP and inject it to your original character.

And a whole issue does not even have to do much with bitter vet syndrome but with lack of consistency in game fundamentals which will definitely make people ask themselves do they really want to pay for the service where they cannot make long term plans as who know what else can be changed, obviously nothing is sacred anymore in the "rush for gold".

Let alone that it will fail miserably in getting large number of players and keeping them in the game.

Edit: And LOL for 50% estimation. Really funny :) . BTW seems you forgot that this came became what it was at its peak because CCP actually listened to those bitter vet players and those bitter vets were the biggest reason why it grew. We can see the trend and direction after they started listening others or not listening to anyone at all.

This is about CCP getting more revenue, not about more new players. Do some math and figure out how much money is generated for CCP by trading a 50m character now vs the near future with TSP's.