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Yet another lame excuse for an answer.

can't believe for the passed weeks that none of the dev team at CCP have not even replyed to this dev blog what so ever,
would be nice to have a message or a post regarding this dev blog as we are your paying customers.

just looks kinda of bad to the paying player base that if ccp can not be bothered to reply to its loyal paying customers, who are paying a sub each month, without a paying customers would put ccp out of business

Stagnation: If you could play for free & not bother training would you ?


I have 2 subscriptions with characters @ 49/24/27 Mill SP & 45/20/18 Mill SP.

Training Acct 1 main for a carrier pilot, 2nd Scanning/ Pi, 3rd industrial / market seller
Training Acct 2 main for industrial command (already a booster), 2nd & 3rd scanning / Pi alts


Since they were introduced I have always used 1 multi-train per month (bought with ISK at the market) - and - in addition about every 2 -3 months I dual training on my 2nd account.


- I don't need really a carrier pilot it's just something I want to achieve - I'm in WH space & happy where I am.
- My pi Alts are good enough at their jobs
- I don't need an industrial command to be in a Rorqual - If I was moving to low or null sec but for the WH an orca will do.

If it is possible to farm SP at a profit (say 10% return - market forces dictate that they need to make a profit for anyone to sell them). With TSP income and what I make in WH space - I will be able to play the game for free.

Of course I don't want to stagnate or actually give up my training goals BUT this may give me a better goal... and playing for free may make stagnation a sweet alternative to continual training.

Just one step towards the ultimate aim of any free to play financial model - getting the players to pay for progression
( if you have to pay for it then it is less likely to happen ).



Pay To WIn :

I would prefer

-- If you don't like the bazaar - sell a $40 item to package an alt for sale on the market
-- Think newbies need to train faster - introduce boosters with diminishing return
-- Upset with your past training choices - sell a $20 item for remapping

Don't make the effort of gaining skills worthless by selling skill points.

I don't want TSP as proposed because it will fundamentally change core gameplay features please don't make a system where I can buy as many SP as I want and just pay to win.

Make me think to why CCP even posts dev blogs at all, Why post a dev blog if CCP cant not be bothered to reply to it
just feel very much to me that CCP are not listening to players properly regarding any dev blog they post .

@Iowa Banshee

For the sake of readability I am not going to quote the wall of text, assume I did.

1) We are not on the same page on this topic, I don't understand what you were trying to say I guess.

2) Ok, this point I consider a benefit, and exactly what I would do if TSP go live.

What people choose to ignore is the massive benefit for CCP trough this system. Currently a trade on bazar is payed for with a plex, so they get 15-20$ somewhere in the transaction. Money for CCP = good for EvE. But this is all they get / transaction, regardless of the characters SP's.

With TSP for each 500k SP CCP will receive 1/3 +/- of a plex. Considering the average SP a character has on the bazar is somewhere between 5m and 15m SP CCP will get paid a lot more for the same amount of SP transaction. It doesn't matter if the person buying SP uses ISK or personal wealth, somewhere in the chain CCP does get paid.

3) I don't want to make character buying easy, I would prefer to get rid of it. "Choices and consequences" argument, I find it absurd that a pilot can double dip after a scam and make a profit again by selling the character and have zero consequences after committing a "crime". Scamming is fine, AWOXING is fine, but how many posts argue this eliminates consequences when in fact it strengthens it?!

4) Define WIN in eve, then I can respond to this point.

NOTE: it's worth about 1/3 of a plex for CCP, that's more then worthless, no?

I have been listening to the meta on podcasts. I did a quick search for the aurum protests. I had one hit on the search from 2011.

I remember well the outrage at the idea that aurum might be used to buy SP. There were protests at all of the trade hubs. It took me 15 minutes of constant jump button pushing to get through the gate into Jita.
I ended up salvaging at Amarr. I had to turn off almost all graphics functions (almost like playing jet on commodore 64). I was getting many thank yous in system for helpiing to reduce lag. I got a free pass for salvaging as ships were destroyed around me. Ships were self destructing everywhere. Ships were being destroyed everywhere. Millions of volleys were fired at the monument in amarr, myself included. I saw mining ships appear to be mining the monument. There were rumors of a titan in Jita. Both related to how over loaded the servers were.

The CEO of CCP apologized and retracted the program for a good amount of time. The only thing you could get with aurum was clothes and goggles. Now, with the "new" generation of gamers; they get many perks that got new players dead when I started.

Myself I was totally taken aback with the iteron changes. I had trained an awful long time for a newb to get gallente industrial 5 so my corp could mine more efficiently without cans being stolen or expiring. The new system put you in an iteron that could carry more ore with basic rigs and modules than a tech 2 rigged and tech 2 moduled iteron 5. something like 60 days shot in the ass.

The great equalizer had been training time. Now, well, the only equalizer is how many plex you have or can purchase. The last I heard CCP plans to implement this program. A great feeling of accomplishment is lost. I was extremely proud of how i managed to minimize lost training time. My SP is very high compared to players with similar time in game. I spent a large portion of my isk having a clone with lvl 5 learning implants. I spent a lot of time grinding missions trying to improve my standings, simply for a clone. I learned about estell arador corp after having greater than 9 standings with several agents to only reach 6 with the factions. I even ran numerous cosmos missions. Now clones are free to anyone anywhere

When I started i had to be able to make enough isk to buy training to train for pvp. I didn't know about plex, wouldn't have been able to afford it, unfortunatly. There was a whole short term long term training program to be able to afford to stay in the game. Imagine my surprise when I realised that "gun mining" in missions made more minerals faster than mining at my level of training. many level 3's and 4's were run to simply salvage them. Had to train diplomacy so i wouldn't get killed in amarr space. Ironically apanake was my home system, lol.

All of these changes allow very new players to attain levels that would have taken older players years to attain. I didn't understand the term bitter vet until selling SP for in essence aurum is being actively pushed again and surprisingly supported by a lot of players. It sounds like eve has a large turnover of players or a lot of "DILIGAF" type players.

I disagree at many levels with this program. I understand the need for new players to keep the game going. I wonder how many old guys have left. I wonder how these changes have influenced what would have been "lifers" in the game.

I could have saved almost 360 dollars in subscription fees if i'd waited 2 years to start playing,

The better corps used to have 50, 60, 85 million SP requirements just to apply. That meant they had at least a few years in game. Now a player could attain the same level of effective SP in about 2 less years.

Many of the players I know, that started at a similar time, have stopped logging on. I have made some new friends and this in no way reflects on them. The many hours/years of comradery are lost due to the changes that have diminished their sense of accomplishment. Some stopped logging in as enough of their friends have been absent. We have a chat in game that stays open and only has one person in it at a time or is empty.

Mike Azaria's school bus and similar efforts allow the equalizer of training time to stay in place and offer new players an opportunity to have more "experience" sooner. That is fellowship and encourages the cooperation social side of the game.

I've taken too much time on this. I can only hope the powers that be read this and it somehow change their paradigm to remember the great aurum protest and find other methods. Mike Azariah, and others whose names i don't remember at this time, have shown insight and offered examples.

I am new in my current corp and it in no way speaks of or for them. This is my personal opinion, it is influenced by the many pilots I have encountered, flown against or with over the last 4 1/2 years. Ooops 5 years

Fly smart, when safe isn't an option.

So how do you feel about the character bazaar?

Hate the idea.

You only ever needed corp standings to get jump clones faction was not needed (only gave more options for what stations they where available at)

As long as you where not shoot on sight povi null sec was a place one could make clones with out standing.



and I hope 200-400 million isk isn't a large portion of your isk amount if you really ran missions for that long.

Yes it is SP specifically:
Not the whole package of SP wrapped in a character that will replace one of your alts.
Not the imaginary SP that you seem to think are tied to winning - remember experience is not tied to SP
But the SP that are the only thing preventing real life money being the deciding factor on in game advantage.


You can buy everything in the game EXCEPT Skill Points -- That's the Point of ALL the Con arguments referring to Pay 2 Win


You can talk about sub time/ deserving victory / SP is winning / Bazaar purchases / experience over SP --- it doesn't matter -- if you don't get that its about letting go of the only non-tradable item that is preventing anyone from buying EVERYTHING needed for advantage you will never get it.