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Dev blog: Dirt & Killmarks - Dirt and Destruction in New Eden

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Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2015-11-27 00:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
In 2009 Toxic Cloud (feeling of the mysterious space)
And what now.
Recon (3 of 3) (There is no sense of of the mysterious space Sad)
Dirt on the ship is good, but the space in some places has become worse than in 2009.

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2015-11-27 00:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Question about a specific hull.

The rattlesnake

It already has wear in leading edges, sign of a prolonged life and wear from space dust. Particularly on the sharp edges. Will the rattler skin be revised for this and will other ships develop this "wear"

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Some quick thoughts...

- most of your players are PvErs, and they tend to stick for long with their ships. What made you think that they would not enjoy/deserve showing kill marks and battle scars on their ships? Specially since PvE ships see 100x more violence than the average die-too-young PvP ship... Roll

- dirt and killmarks are fine. But if you want a real challenge, make EVE's suns dim and shrink over distance in a realistic way. For 7 years I've never achieved to pretend that I'm traveling billions of kilometers around a "star" that shines continuously like a lightbulb in the middle of a room... Ugh


As somebody who pve's a different take on this might be in order. Standings perhaps can earn/lose you marks with factions. The PvE version of a killmark can be for being in tops of completing incursions or something if they get revised. This way ships get medals of honor for surviving high risk pve encounters or rare escalations. Something that can be lost, but not just awarded for farming a status quo.


Certainly some system could be worked out. Risk and reward and yadda yadda yadda. 1 kill mark for completing 10 succesful missions and whatever.

Yet the point is CCP has not even *thought* about rewarding PvErs.

Who fight more? PvErs
Who value their ships more? PvErs
Who keep their ships longer? PvErs

So CCP rewards, for their loyalty using their ships a lot and keeping them alive, the PvPrs. And PvErs can just pay another month of subscription and eat sh*t.


We have absolutely thought about adding the ability for PVE kills to give killmarks. Killmarks for killing tougher NPCs (like faction spawn, burners, overseers) is something we investigated internally but unfortunately we don't currently have an easily accessible source of that data like we do for PVP kills (thanks to kill reports). It's still something I'd definitely like to see us do but it was out of scope for the initial feature launch.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#23 - 2015-11-27 01:15:58 UTC
wouldn't it be better to ad a minimum isk value as threshold for determining if it was a kill or not? Would allow you to count rookie ships and pods too since it would automatically exclude empty (cheap) hulls.

You are already using the "isk damage done" value for calculating bounty and LP payouts so might just use it for killmarks too.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Faenir Antollare
For Ever And Ever
#24 - 2015-11-27 06:34:33 UTC
If a ship has a "skin" applied to the hull, will it also accumulate dust/dirt in the same way a none skinned hull would ?

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#25 - 2015-11-27 06:35:59 UTC
Can you add an opt out on the Fitting settings menu, so you never can 'accidently' clean your ship. If you tick it, grey out the option or something.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#26 - 2015-11-27 06:38:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
[quote=Markus Reese] ..

[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]

Yet the point is CCP has not even *thought* about rewarding PvErs.

Who fight more? PvErs
Who value their ships more? PvErs
Who keep their ships longer? PvErs

So CCP rewards, for their loyalty using their ships a lot and keeping them alive, the PvPrs. And PvErs can just pay another month of subscription and eat sh*t.


We have absolutely thought about adding the ability for PVE kills to give killmarks. Killmarks for killing tougher NPCs (like faction spawn, burners, overseers) is something we investigated internally but unfortunately we don't currently have an easily accessible source of that data like we do for PVP kills (thanks to kill reports). It's still something I'd definitely like to see us do but it was out of scope for the initial feature launch.


Then I want the ISK sign on my transporters, for every billion hauled in that ship type, I can live with 999 bil as max on my ship.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-11-27 08:08:41 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
[quote=Markus Reese] ..

[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]

Yet the point is CCP has not even *thought* about rewarding PvErs.

Who fight more? PvErs
Who value their ships more? PvErs
Who keep their ships longer? PvErs

So CCP rewards, for their loyalty using their ships a lot and keeping them alive, the PvPrs. And PvErs can just pay another month of subscription and eat sh*t.


We have absolutely thought about adding the ability for PVE kills to give killmarks. Killmarks for killing tougher NPCs (like faction spawn, burners, overseers) is something we investigated internally but unfortunately we don't currently have an easily accessible source of that data like we do for PVP kills (thanks to kill reports). It's still something I'd definitely like to see us do but it was out of scope for the initial feature launch.


Then I want the ISK sign on my transporters, for every billion hauled in that ship type, I can live with 999 bil as max on my ship.


Lol, no you dont want that :) its like a flag - shoot me i might be carrying lot of loot

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#28 - 2015-11-27 08:41:01 UTC
Will Dust and Dirt be only visible on the original Hull or also on Skins? What if i change my Skin. Will the ship be automatically washed or will the dirt stay on the hull?
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#29 - 2015-11-27 12:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna RB
Mojo JimBoB wrote:
Really? Who Cares about Dirty ships or killmarks... why don't you use the time fixing actual game problems... War Shedding comes to mind, as It is annoying as hell that a war is declared, all toons in decced corp drop corp and create a new one and continue on, no consequenses but the aggressing corp is out the WarDec isk...


This problem is already solved, and the solution is simple. Don't war deck corps that are incapable of fighting, and have no intentions of fighting, wars.

There are plenty of ways to make content in this game. War decking pacifist corporations is not one of them.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#30 - 2015-11-27 13:02:11 UTC
What are minimal graphic settings to see dust on ships?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2015-11-27 13:34:00 UTC
Faenir Antollare wrote:
If a ship has a "skin" applied to the hull, will it also accumulate dust/dirt in the same way a none skinned hull would ?


Yes. And, changing the skin will not remove the dirt.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2015-11-27 13:34:52 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
What are minimal graphic settings to see dust on ships?


Pretty sure that you need to be running with shader quality on "High," as removing the dirt maps is a primary difference between "High" and "Medium."

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#33 - 2015-11-27 13:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Question about a specific hull.

The rattlesnake

It already has wear in leading edges, sign of a prolonged life and wear from space dust. Particularly on the sharp edges. Will the rattler skin be revised for this and will other ships develop this "wear"

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Some quick thoughts...

- most of your players are PvErs, and they tend to stick for long with their ships. What made you think that they would not enjoy/deserve showing kill marks and battle scars on their ships? Specially since PvE ships see 100x more violence than the average die-too-young PvP ship... Roll

- dirt and killmarks are fine. But if you want a real challenge, make EVE's suns dim and shrink over distance in a realistic way. For 7 years I've never achieved to pretend that I'm traveling billions of kilometers around a "star" that shines continuously like a lightbulb in the middle of a room... Ugh


As somebody who pve's a different take on this might be in order. Standings perhaps can earn/lose you marks with factions. The PvE version of a killmark can be for being in tops of completing incursions or something if they get revised. This way ships get medals of honor for surviving high risk pve encounters or rare escalations. Something that can be lost, but not just awarded for farming a status quo.


Certainly some system could be worked out. Risk and reward and yadda yadda yadda. 1 kill mark for completing 10 succesful missions and whatever.

Yet the point is CCP has not even *thought* about rewarding PvErs.

Who fight more? PvErs
Who value their ships more? PvErs
Who keep their ships longer? PvErs

So CCP rewards, for their loyalty using their ships a lot and keeping them alive, the PvPrs. And PvErs can just pay another month of subscription and eat sh*t.


We have absolutely thought about adding the ability for PVE kills to give killmarks. Killmarks for killing tougher NPCs (like faction spawn, burners, overseers) is something we investigated internally but unfortunately we don't currently have an easily accessible source of that data like we do for PVP kills (thanks to kill reports). It's still something I'd definitely like to see us do but it was out of scope for the initial feature launch.


Wouldn't bounties do the job? What?

Obviously I don't know the inner works of the code, but apparently player X blow NPC -> pay bounty to player X is something the game can tell.
Jaantrag
#34 - 2015-11-27 19:04:11 UTC
NPC kills dont count ...

BUT NPC-s do they get theyr own counters ? .. how many gankers each concord vessel have blown up in Uedama ? .. faction navy vessels blown up peapole with bad standings or FW enemyes ? ..


EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back
Alaik
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#35 - 2015-11-28 04:33:17 UTC
I've not read through the comments, but will the number of kill marks a ship has be viewable on the killmail when it dies? Could be an excellent bragging tool - "I got this one guy with 675 killmarks the other day!"
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2015-11-28 16:59:52 UTC
Alaik wrote:
I've not read through the comments, but will the number of kill marks a ship has be viewable on the killmail when it dies? Could be an excellent bragging tool - "I got this one guy with 675 killmarks the other day!"

Won't be that way at this time, but thanks for the suggestion. Always a possibility for the future.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#37 - 2015-11-28 20:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
For the love of God please leave an opt out option for both of these stupid ass ideas. Not one where im forced to push some button again and again and again to keep my ship clean but a permanent opt-out.

I dont want the skins i paid a 750mil for getting ****** up because your art department needs a 50% staff cut to keep this kind of crap from becoming a thing.

(to be clear i hate these ideas but wouldnt want to take them from those that do want them but im sure if implemented there isnt going to be a permanent opt-out option made available, judging how CCP has treated similar 'art' inclusions before).

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-11-28 21:58:11 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Alaik wrote:
I've not read through the comments, but will the number of kill marks a ship has be viewable on the killmail when it dies? Could be an excellent bragging tool - "I got this one guy with 675 killmarks the other day!"

Won't be that way at this time, but thanks for the suggestion. Always a possibility for the future.


This would be awesome

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Rock Oyok
Republic Scrapyards
#39 - 2015-11-29 04:17:04 UTC
Devblog wrote:
When we sought inspiration, two things stood out immediately: age and accomplishment.

Age - this was fairly simple to conceptualize. While hulls don’t sag or fatten over the year, they should present visual marks of longevity. They accumulate dust, dirt, and detritus—a general accretion of filth earned by nothing more than the simple process of existing. [...] The clock starts for any given ship when a capsuleer first makes that ship active.


Please reconsider. Time spent in a hangar should not count towards ship age. Let them gather dirt only when (if) they are actually out there and in use.

Also I second requests for completely opting out of both possibilities - the feature per se, and the "clean ship" button - some players would absolutely hate to accidentally clean their rust buckets, while others would be forced to "clean ship" at every pit stop...
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#40 - 2015-11-29 05:15:34 UTC
Small crosses for Logistics ships please.
For the number of ships you repped the last percentage of, and it survived to see another battle.