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It had its niche as a decent tracking alpha boat. Never thought it was "good" per say, but it was fun to alpha frigs with while going 3k/s (OH). It was poor in most fleet settings and barely managable in a solo role. The fleet cane is cheaper or on par in price, has better alpha, tracking, dps and more drones/utility. Plus it can sport a better tank than the muninn. It eclipses it in a fleet role short of speed/sig.

So yea the muninn has always been pretty poor, but with the fleet cane out, there is 0 reason to use one except for lulz.

Depends on the role. For me speed and sig are not an issue when using my arty kite cane. It has such good tracking and alpha, most of the smaller **** can be popped before theyre even an issue. Against bigger things the raw alpha will normally bypass active tanks and bleed structure.

In a fleet setting against BS, sure prob not a good idea. But against other BCs or cruisers, it will still work well and sport a better tank in either config than the muninn.

31 pages of content regarding the nerfing of ships... and not one post that asks the obvious question, where is the nerf bat regarding the catalyst? Obviously it is OP as hell or all the high sec gankers wouldn't be exclusively using this ship to gank the poor helpless miners.

Blow up drones, profit.

The issue with hull tanking is that there is no drawback to it. There is no penalty. Armour has mass and speed penalties, shield has it a bit better with sig radius penalties. But hull doesn't have ****. A bit of agility and cargo space. There should be at least a bit more of an agility penalty.

How about limiting its drone range?

It's just a decent buffer tank there's no way to active tank with it and no way to get reps, after nearly every fight you have to dock up and repair. It only really works on a few ships and even those are usually fit with armor or shield instead so it's not like you get amazing tank out of it, you get okay tank but you don't have to use many fitting slots to get a respectable tank, that's why we use it... it's not for omni resists because 60% resist profile is not special, and nearly all armor and shield buffer tanks are capless anyway (apart from invuln fields which are not that common in pvp)

most tristans are shield tanked, but well I always used the Hull tanked tristan so i won't argue there it is very strong, same with the comet it was already very strong before hull tanking. But this is why i say make it an option for some of the lesser used ships in the game instead of the already good ships getting even more of a buff.

I'm really surprised at the Tristan hull nerf. I mean hull tristans are good, but I still see a lot more kitey shield tristans out there. I think the biggest advantage of the tristan is that drones are so versatile. There is no limit on engagement range and you don't need the high slots, which frees up a lot of PG/CPU or gives you lots of options for utility highs.

It seems the issue people have with tristans is their versatility. They can be shield, armor or hull tanked, active or passive tanked, brawlers or kiters. And they have enough drones/drone hp that they'll kill you 1v1 before you can chew through all their drones. When you come across one in FW it's a pretty big gamble as to how they're fit.

I dont know how to balance this, but I think nerfing their hull just takes away one of the more interesting things about them, but largely leaves the main issues untouched.

I think the nerfs could be applied to drones themselves, especially considering how many of the nerfs recently have been to done boats (Ishtar, Gila, Worm, Tristan). Not just flat dps nerfs, but things like slowing their MWD speeds so that kiting drones is a normal thing to do, or making ewar effective against them, such as making webs and scrams affect all 5 drones if put on one of them or on the main ship (obviously this would have to be balanced properly, negating all 5 drones by kiting with 1 web could be devastating for some ships, but it would kind of mean the drone boat would have to get into brawl range to web their target themselves, I kind of see it as fair enough).

Anyway, just my 5c. Sad to see the hero Tristan getting a large nerf but largely leaving the more popular builds fairly untouched.

CCP has a clear Gallente bias. Even the rookie ship is objectively better than all the rest. They leave no stone unturned in their quest to make the "progressive liberals" dominate :)

What can the new punisher do that a slicer doesn't just do better? 4 effective turrets for the cost of 2? Slicer does more damage. Tanking? Slicer's natural navy stats and better fitting let it tank better.

The new punisher can certainly compete with these changes; it won't be the worst frigate in the game anymore. But the chosen changes don't really let it fill any role that is not done better by something else, excepting as a cheap slicer alternative for newbies or zerging.

The missile idea was promoted because it would have given the punisher a unique role to fill in the amarr t1 frigate lineup. Tiercide was done to add unique roles and eliminate tiered ship line ups, yet the changes here are just enforcing the punisher's place as 'the ship you use only until you can use something better'.