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MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#361 - 2015-11-26 18:35:56 UTC
Asura Vajrarupa wrote:
I already stated that focusing on rmt prevention in game design doesn't lead to better games and is a fools errand. Between your post and mine at least one person has argued that low sp grind is a problem, and I'm willing to bet more if I could stand reading through the chaff of this thread. So your fantasy of no support for the idea is just that. There are at minimum two. Wake up from your confirmation bias.

Why should we use untradeable sp? How is one more burst of one time sp going to change anything? Unless suggesting CCP just sell sp, which is a terrible idea, and probably the real fear for most concerning this topic.

1) maybe you should indeed read what has been written on the subject ? Just an idea ...

2) I assume that combating cheating in FPS games doesn't lead to better games and is a fools errand too ?

3) Let's assume that RMT happens because people are impatient to various degrees. Let's further assume that grindy game mechanics have a tendency to lead to boredom.Let's further assume that bored impatient people engage in RMT. I would think that reducing the amount of boring, grindy mechanics would both lead to better gameplay and reduce RMT.

4) tradeable SP, as proposed would benefit the potential sellers (those who have plent of SP) more than the likely buyers (those who feel like the need to up their SP) ...

5) If you had read Sibyyl's posts you would know that she doesn't advocate CCP selling SP.

6) concerning fantasy of no support: try this.

Sibyyl wrote:
Quote:
All changes to the game should be to enhance player experience, to make the game a better game! Any argument against SP trading that falls outside this fact is nonsensical.


Let me be very clear here, since it doesn't seem to be. You and I are players and offering our opinions. Neither of us are CCP employees (I hope!) and we don't control the IP or the game. What they decide to do is their right alone. I feel simply that I voice my opinion what I feel better adheres to the spirit of the game as CCP has themselves described it to us.


You don't see the cognitive dissonance in this statement?[/quote]

What cognitive dissonance ?
Sibyyl said in essence:
1) CCP run the show and do what they want to do.
2) You and I can only voice our opinions
3) Here's my opinion on what fits best to the way EvE was described to us.

If you're interested in what way EvE was described, here's EvE is harsh and no micro-transaction beyond vanity items.





Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2015-11-26 18:41:17 UTC

Hi Marsha,

I was going to wish you a good Thanksgiving, but I realized where you're from. P

Mechanisms of RMT and their solutions:

1. ISK Trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently possible. Players can give money to an ISK farmer.
Solution: PLEX. Offers a legal path to instantly gain ISK at a competitive price.

2. Character trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently possible. Players can exchange account logins in exchange for money.
Solution: Character Bazaar. Offers CCP muscle against scams. Competitively priced (only 2 PLEX).

3. SP Trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently not a game mechanic. CCP would have to introduce it in the game, in order for players to RMT by trading SP for money.
Solution: ???



Asura, sorry I don't argue against thesauruses. Give me a substantive argument. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong".



Tyberius, good to see you in the thread! I will respond after I stuff these chickens..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#363 - 2015-11-26 19:26:54 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Hi Marsha,

I was going to wish you a good Thanksgiving, but I realized where you're from. P

Mechanisms of RMT and their solutions:

1. ISK Trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently possible. Players can give money to an ISK farmer.
Solution: PLEX. Offers a legal path to instantly gain ISK at a competitive price.

2. Character trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently possible. Players can exchange account logins in exchange for money.
Solution: Character Bazaar. Offers CCP muscle against scams. Competitively priced (only 2 PLEX).

3. SP Trading.
RMT mechanism: Currently not a game mechanic. CCP would have to introduce it in the game, in order for players to RMT by trading SP for money.
Solution: ???



Asura, sorry I don't argue against thesauruses. Give me a substantive argument. All you're doing is saying "you're wrong".



Tyberius, good to see you in the thread! I will respond after I stuff these chickens..



3. SP trading doesn't need a solution because there already is one: PLEX. You sell PLEX for isk and use isk to buy SP from other players.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#364 - 2015-11-26 22:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dagnar wrote:
3. SP trading doesn't need a solution because there already is one: PLEX. You sell PLEX for isk and use isk to buy SP from other players.
No.
You buy a character with flaws, with a name you don't want and a face you don't like. That is a large cost to benefit, which curbs sales.

SP trading is perfect skill injections (yeah yeah lower returns, bandaid blah blah) into a character of your choice and you would be liquidating characters that people built and may hope will live on after they are gone.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2015-11-28 11:06:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dagnar wrote:
3. SP trading doesn't need a solution because there already is one: PLEX. You sell PLEX for isk and use isk to buy SP from other players.
No.
You buy a character with flaws, with a name you don't want and a face you don't like. That is a large cost to benefit, which curbs sales.

SP trading is perfect skill injections (yeah yeah lower returns, bandaid blah blah) into a character of your choice and you would be liquidating characters that people built and may hope will live on after they are gone.
EVE's skill training system, real-time instead of grind, is quite obviously just a (legit) way for CCP to retain customers over time, by diluting access to content.

It never ceases to amuse me when people like you make a fuss over CCP deciding to change THEIR CHOICE of how to sell skills (=game content) to players.

It's entirely a business decision (good or bad), in no way a decision affecting gameplay. Except in maybe slightly more people having a slightly wider range of ship/career choices faster, which is bad because?

So why don't you focus on playing the game instead of playing armchair businessman?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#366 - 2015-11-28 20:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Sibyyl wrote:
PLEX reduces RMT because it provides a competitively priced alternative to RMT: buy ISK legally from CCP itself.


PLEX doesn't reduce RMT. It legitimizes it.

Putting the cash in CCP's pocket instead of third party ISK sellers in no way changes how the game is played and the fundamental problem of paying to jump ahead.

While it can certainly be argued that paying CCP for ISK is better than paying ISK-R-US , it's faint praise. The problem is not addressed. CCP's solution to RMT was to grab a piece of it for themselves, thus encouraging the practice through making it legit. There has been no time in this game's history where RMT is more prevalent than today. Whether legit or third party, RMT is RMT.

How can that possibly be good for the game?

Mr Epeen Cool
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#367 - 2015-11-29 16:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Mr Epeen wrote:
PLEX doesn't reduce RMT. It legitimizes it.


Only to one half: You can effectively buy ISK for Dollar, but you cannot sell ISK for Dollar. No player can legitimately make money by farming ISK and selling them. The only monetary benefit for the ISK seller is, that he doesn't have to pay his account. Every PLEX beyond that is still just an ingame item.

The problem with RMT in most games is, that you can actually make money by farming ISK/Gold/Coins/Crystals/whatever the currency is, often using bots or a bunch of chinese kids in a sweatshop. That does happen in Eve as well, E-Bay ISK selling is definitely a thing, but not as much as it would be if there were no PLEX.

CCP on the other hand, even though of course they get a nice financial cushion through PLEX, don't sell ISK, and therefore don't bot or farm.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#368 - 2015-11-30 01:19:09 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
PLEX doesn't reduce RMT. It legitimizes it.


Only to one half: You can effectively buy ISK for Dollar, but you cannot sell ISK for Dollar. No player can legitimately make money by farming ISK and selling them. The only monetary benefit for the ISK seller is, that he doesn't have to pay his account. Every PLEX beyond that is still just an ingame item.

The problem with RMT in most games is, that you can actually make money by farming ISK/Gold/Coins/Crystals/whatever the currency is, often using bots or a bunch of chinese kids in a sweatshop. That does happen in Eve as well, E-Bay ISK selling is definitely a thing, but not as much as it would be if there were no PLEX.

CCP on the other hand, even though of course they get a nice financial cushion through PLEX, don't sell ISK, and therefore don't bot or farm.
I think CCP buying ISK might be one of the best things for the longevity of the game.

A one time event to clear some of the large alliance wallets and make things fun again. Not enough notice to allow farming to matter much. Just announce that on such and such a date CCP will do a PLEX buyback for cash.

It will create some great stories of massive corp thefts. Many corps and alliances will collapse overnight as their bankers sell off all their assets and null will open up like it hasn't in years. It will also have the benefit of clearing some of the massive stockpiles of PLEX, capital fleets and minerals from the game.

This will have to be coupled with fixing ISK faucets and a reworked (or removed) PLEX system, of course. But it might be just what we need to remove the current stagnation that is plaguing the game and shake up the balance of power that virtually unlimited ISK has created for the large blocks turtled in around their money moons.

Mr Epeen Cool
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#369 - 2015-11-30 06:38:44 UTC
The only thing to mass protest is mass protests themselves.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#370 - 2015-12-01 22:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Actually, transneural skill packs are the reason I came back. I biomassed my old main. I tried coming back a few times, but Eve really sucks at low SP and I didn't want to not be able to do the stuff I like to do for months. I didn't want to buy some character named xXDarkLordOfDarknessXx or a sexual reference from the character bazaar either. I want my character to be mine. With those two options off the table there are two left, don't come back or CCP announces SP packs. Thankfully, CCP chose the latter.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#371 - 2015-12-01 23:38:09 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Actually, transneural skill packs are the reason I came back. I biomassed my old main. I tried coming back a few times, but Eve really sucks at low SP and I didn't want to not be able to do the stuff I like to do for months. I didn't want to buy some character named xXDarkLordOfDarknessXx or a sexual reference from the character bazaar either. I want my character to be mine. With the those two options off the table there are two left, don't come back or CCP announces SP packs. Thankfully, CCP chose the latter.


What if they would offer you the third option and you be able to change those fancy names you are reffering to? And your DarkLordofDarkness became a LightLordoftheLightness?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
MrsKaye
Doomheim
#372 - 2015-12-02 00:57:43 UTC
Funny, you think this is a bad idea..

IT'S ONE OF THE BEST I'VE HEARD CCP come up with.


Both from a company profit standpoint and the fact that new games being introduced in this market segment are not requiring skill points to fly ships, just pilot skill.


CCP is just keeping pace and thinking on their feet.... way to go!
Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#373 - 2015-12-02 01:58:30 UTC
MrsKaye wrote:
Funny, you think this is a bad idea..

IT'S ONE OF THE BEST I'VE HEARD CCP come up with.


Both from a company profit standpoint and the fact that new games being introduced in this market segment are not requiring skill points to fly ships, just pilot skill.


CCP is just keeping pace and thinking on their feet.... way to go!


But selling off parts of your brain because you need cash isn't cold and dark enough somehow, and that's what really matters!!!

CCP can't change their mind! It violates a thing they said once upon a time! I'd rather see EVE rot and die then see it change!

/s

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#374 - 2015-12-02 02:11:35 UTC
So, Elite: Dangerous doesn't need skill training, so eve shouldn't need it either?

I wonder, should CCP at one point actually save Eve, by turning it into not-Eve - would they really have saved it then?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#375 - 2015-12-02 12:54:47 UTC
without skills to keep people subbed, EVE would become a space wasteland. A spaceland.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Cometopappa
Doomheim
#376 - 2015-12-02 15:27:08 UTC
When can i buy SP's? I needs thems's,, the preciousssss!!
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#377 - 2015-12-02 23:10:49 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
without skills to keep people subbed, EVE would become a space wasteland. A spaceland.

If skill training is the only reason you stay subbed why are you playing a game you clearly don't like?
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#378 - 2015-12-02 23:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Mr Epeen wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
PLEX reduces RMT because it provides a competitively priced alternative to RMT: buy ISK legally from CCP itself.


PLEX doesn't reduce RMT. It legitimizes it.

Putting the cash in CCP's pocket instead of third party ISK sellers in no way changes how the game is played and the fundamental problem of paying to jump ahead.

While it can certainly be argued that paying CCP for ISK is better than paying ISK-R-US , it's faint praise. The problem is not addressed. CCP's solution to RMT was to grab a piece of it for themselves, thus encouraging the practice through making it legit. There has been no time in this game's history where RMT is more prevalent than today. Whether legit or third party, RMT is RMT.

How can that possibly be good for the game?

Mr Epeen Cool

There's nothing CCP can really do about it except ban accounts, and history has shown that the RMT industry considers that a minor speed bump at best. The only thing that can really be done to make a serious dent in RMT is the games industry getting themselves some lobbyists and either making the EULA legally binding and suing RMT companies out of business or making RMT illegal. Even that wouldn't completely stop it, but it at least wouldn't be running rampant anymore.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#379 - 2015-12-03 03:54:37 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

There has been no time in this game's history where RMT is more prevalent than today. Whether legit or third party, RMT is RMT.

Mr Epeen Cool


Really?

As someone who has come back to the game.... I recall endless spamming in local by isk sellers - and endless moaning by people who got ripped off - ebay had a thriving market in characters who may or may not have had the skills advertised when you ponied up to buy the passwords - again the cause of endless moaning - etc

I suspect there was far more RMT changing hands then than there is now - for the simple reason than it meant far more to have the extra few million isk or whatever etc

Oh - and let's remember that this thread is about a protest that didn't happen, about the subject of someone trading the skill points accrued from Defender Missiles V to someone to get something they can use
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2015-12-03 19:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
without skills to keep people subbed, EVE would become a space wasteland. A spaceland.

If skill training is the only reason you stay subbed why are you playing a game you clearly don't like?
Allow me to aid your understanding. Many of us have the capacity to like a game without needing to play it every day, week or even month. Because we take breaks doesn't mean I don't like it.

But I stay subbed, because training and the fact that the progress gained will be put to use when I return.

Does that help clarify the concept?