EVE General Discussion

I don't use the term Dead Moon, so I assume Hilti was referring to R08 moons. If I'm wrong on that, then my apology in advance.

If running reactions then yes it is possible. Without running full figures for the input costs vs the final income I can't say right now what setups are the most profitable, but if you look at the information Steve Ronuken (from CSM) has on his website, you can see what reactions are profitable currently:

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/reactions/

So if you can setup a POS to mine some resources and buy others, or run multiple moons, it comes down to doing the calculations up front and then getting the setup right with the POS and reactions.

Here's an old thread with some additional information:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=274840

It's one of those things that seems to be one of the dark arts of Eve, but once you find what works, it can be very profitable. I'm certainly no expert on that aspect, so better answers might come from others.

Where it is not an individual ISK source for most players again comes down to POS operations being a Corporation level activity. To erect a POS and modules, etc. requires roles to be given, so for a lot of Corporations/Alliances there are security risks in that approach, as the ability to manage POSs is also an ability to take all the POSs and modules. Alt Corps that are set blue is easier in my view (but that's just the approach we use and others might have different views on that as alt corps also has disadvantages in terms of POS access and maintenance and individuals needing to be relatively self sufficient).

Most of it is no more profitable than PI, which is much easier for individual income.

POS's under our control are getting hit day after day. Again, feel free to tell me how you are going to defend your pos solo in null.

Unfortunately that's because you are part of one of the biggest cancers in the game. Join another alliance and move to other parts of null sec is self wealth is what you are after.

There'd be nothing wrong with incursions if they stopped paying liquid ISK in highsec and just paid CONCORD LP; possibly larger numbers than now.

If only a few did them, the LP would become very valuable. If more did them, the LP would fall. Incursion runners would want to find ways to sabotage each other.

Please explain what exactly the problem is because the glasses I wear paint a pretty straight forward picture of what really the problem is, if any.

The glasses you were are prejudiced against something, perhaps null. The issue here is individual income and how that affects the game.

The problem has been has been discussed time and time again. High Sec has blitzable missions (no including burners, see Anize Onamara's guide) and the incursions in high sec are unbalanced (unlike the low/null versions which are balanced by no CONCORD response and incursion rats on gates). Again, the factor that makes these wealth generating activates unbalanced is the nature of the protections available in high sec.

Because of the above (and the totally separate factor of Faction Warfare missions, which are unbalanced because they are completeable in throwaway stealth bombers and super slippery T3Ds), adverse affects are felt across EVE. Faction Warfare is nothing more than a meta-gamed farm-ville with large organized groups actually deciding which side is going to be allowed to 'win' the forever war, and most of the above mentioned high sec activates are just used as 'resupply depots' for non-high sec players. This is bad because it turns other parts of EVE into less than what they could be, FW should be a vibrant pvp zone, nul sec should be an epic struggle for supremacy, but they are not, and high sec is the reason.

The bottom line is this: If you want the kind of wealth that high sec incursions and FW missions generate, you should have to personally risk more than a frigate/dessie sized ship in FW or a tech2 logi ship in a high sec incursion (my scimitar in high sec makes me more wealth than mt 2.5 bil isk Machariel does in null, with less risk...).

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IMO the fix for incursions is either more risk or less isk.

The fix for FW is retool the missons to be both closer to home (not deep in enemy territory) and undoable by frigate sized ships (hell a few more web towers and/or neut towers in FW missions would help, FW missions should be more group content imo)

The fix for the blitz abuse of missions is to make the missions require full clearing like anomalies do, and randomization of spawns could help

On a related note, A (not the only) fix for null sec income making is to maybe enable mission agents in sov null, or at least make anomalies none afkable. For those who know about null, if you make anoms more like Forlorn Hubs and less like forsaken you put a hold on the raw isk spewing, then you can even up rewards (making null a bit more worthwhile) without breaking the economy.

Of couse, one has to actually give a damn about pve activities to think about this stuff. Again a big issue here is fair weather PVErs who actually don't give a damn about balance as long as their wallet is filled.

This is why the current situation exists. CCP has been adding things without considering how they fit together. IO started playing before incursions, wormholes, FW and burner missions existed. It wans't perfect, people complained about lvl 4 missions, but things made more sense, if you wanted null level income, you risked null. If you could live on 40 mil an hour (and you could) , you ran missions in high sec (until the lvl 5 bug came with the introduction of those missions, that was the 1st taste of unbalance disk high seccers got. I was one of them).




That's excuse making. My wallet doesn't care how many people are in a incursion fleet the same way it doesn't care how many ships had to die to take sov for me to rat in in Wicked Creek. This is about individual income, and I make more isk running a tech2 scimi in null than I do with a deadspace fit pirate ship in null. Same goes for FW, fa freaking purifier makes more than that mach.

That's why I have those alts, and it's insane, it should not work that way at all. And because it does, things like this happened, where CCP tried to fix null and saw nothing happen but more high sec incursion (and later FW) alts.

I hate it when incursion runners talk about how much organization it takes. Most of them (myself included) are doing nothing more than orbiting an anchor and following number tags or filling broadcast service requests. Talking about high levels of organization that you don't personally participate in is an attempt to deny to existence of an imbalance.

This has noting to do with the situation. You pretty much have to be more concerned about the crappy state of combat pve in EVE than your own wallet (or bias against null sec) to understand this issue fully. Again, no one is asking for a buff to nul, because to do so would be screwing the game for the sake of null. No, the way forward is to fix the broken thing, like CCP eventually did when they fixed the high sec lvl 5 bug.

And the game has been in a steady decline ever since. Pretty nice thinking from CCP I guess.

ROFL, I knew that whole "CCP killed high sec because I can't solo a lvl 5 in high sec" sentiment would never die.

It was a bug. Bugs are bad.

FW missions for non-Gallente factions need to be unsolo-able by bombers.

Incursions are fine. I tried them for a month and had to stop out of boredom. The ISK/hr is less than normally claimed due to waitlists, down times and other issues, and they require a fair bit of organization compared to solo activities in allegedly more risky space which requires none.

The Russians two jumps from my home system have been running level 5s in supers as long as I've been playing. No one drops on them because I assume no one in range can out escalate them, or maybe they're blue with the neighboring supercap blobs. Regardless there's no content created there. Just a big blob of supers sitting on top of that income stream farming the **** out of them, kinda like Deklein.

Putting a viable income stream out of reach of solo players or players in smaller organizations is not going to improve the game. People will always seek out the most risk averse PvE. It's the swarms of risk averse players looking for easy PvP content to the tune of "log in, gank, log out of go station trade while awaiting next gank" that are more harmful than any form of ISK generation.

The people that go roam in solo BS or aggressive small gangs or do stupid things in caps or take fights they can't know the outcome of, are the people creating content.