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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1221 - 2015-11-21 03:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Character assassination, how original Lol

Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.

Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.


You honestly think anyone would be able to take a 40 man pve battleship fleet into null without it getting torn apart?


That shouldn't happen if the fleet is in your own Sovereign space, right?

If CCP begins creating Null sec incursions then it shouldn't be a problem running them in your own space. These incursions should be like 10x the size and difficulty of the incursions in hi-sec which should also allow Caps & Supers.


They pop up in our space once every 1-3 months and are finished as quickly as possible as the cripple jump bridge networks, halt all other pve activity and damage our defences.


Then this is what needs to change. Should be at least 2 mega size incursions in every null region per day.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1222 - 2015-11-21 04:46:27 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


Sometimes fixing "things" ends up not going the way some people (like you) want them to. This problem you are currently describing is the least of "things" that needs fixing in Eve atm. There are tons of other "things" that CCP should be focusing on in Eve right now instead of humoring nullbears desire to nerf hi-sec income into the ground cause they can make close to what they make in null.


Close? It's not even close. You can test this for yourself. Take a DPS ship you would use for incursions to null. Try to make isk with it. You generally won't get close to half.

Of course, again, yo'd have to be interested in the truth of this matter to expend the effort to test things out for yourself. Very few who defend this measurably broken status quo would be willing to do so (mainly because they already know it's broken).

Quote:

Unfortunately there are some individuals that lack the ability to just mind their own friggin business and just enjoy doing their own thing which are the main ones complaining about Hi-Sec income (I'm not naming anyone cause they know who they are).


That's a common thing. Well, it is our business, we play EVE too. And some of us actually care about the PVE scheme in this game, and want to see it work correctly, or are close to correctly as it could. Being able to make more income with a stealth bomber in FW or a logi ship in high sec than you can risking an expensive pve fit ship in null is broken and unbalanced.

If I wer ein to tinfoil I'd proclaim that CCP wants it this way because that makes us have incursions and FW alts...

Quote:

Self interest?... yes of course it is. Everyone plays Eve for their own reasons and enjoyment. Why is that a bad thing? Jenn, are you any different? If you say you're not then you're either lying or deceiving yourself.


I'm not the one lying here, I'm the one with all the verifiable facts here (notice that people like you and on your side and linked ZERO counter evidence?).

The problem with the kind of self interest you types are displaying is that it's short sighted. You actually and honestly don't understand that the current combat pve status quo is screwing you in the long run, and that a better rewards balance would alleviate a whole lot of problems. "nullbears" would be in null, high sec ganking might decrease in frequency (not that its a lot now, but much of it is aimed at people moving incursion focuses), new player sin high sec would have an easier time breaking tinto group pve, CONCORD, SOE and other types of LP wouldn't be depressed as they are by null alts farming, the actual isk in all of our wallets might stop resembling Zimbabwe dollars for all they can buy with all this isk being in the game....

..And the big one, a more sensible wealth generation scheme tied to relative danger might even help PLEX prices...

The above is why more than a few of us try to corner a DEV or two at CCP events and talk about this stuff. Because they sure as hell ain't gonna hear the truth on these forums because you people think someone is out to get in your damn imaginary space wallets.


When CCP makes the combat pve rewards scheme make more sense and you people get to see what we were talking about when things get better for all of us, I'm going to link this thread and remind you of your opposition to it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1223 - 2015-11-21 05:00:24 UTC
AtramLolipop wrote:


dear boy ganking doesn't happen in sites.


Doesn't matter where it happens attacking a vindicator at point blank range in untanked ships is a very bad idea.


AtramLolipop wrote:

Try the fact that with out a solid back bone a HS incursion is useless. Ratting in null sec is very much a solo activity I don't care what you say about time and work, both require effort but ratting is very done solo.


Ratting requires infrastructure, which requires sov, which requires you to fight alliances and then you have to protect those ratters and assets. Ratting in sov null is not a solo activity.


AtramLolipop wrote:

You're doing it wrong, that's the most ******** thing i've ever heard.


Ok you own a personal money moon. PH have dropped a 150 man proteus fleet with two triage carriers and 15 dreads on it. Good luck protecting it solo.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1224 - 2015-11-21 05:03:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm not the one lying here, I'm the one with all the verifiable facts here (notice that people like you and on your side and linked ZERO counter evidence?).

Except of course, the fact that you have produced no real numbers, and when challenged on why the numbers you use aren't accurate, you simply come back with personal attacks on me.
But hey, can't let real facts get in the way of good political 'facts' can we.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1225 - 2015-11-21 07:38:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Why would we waste time killing the mother ship? As said we will abuse this easy isk ourselves and have nothing to gain from killing the mother ship.


We'll look forward to seeing you then.

'
What do you mean? Were already here lol. I've been running incursions (with a few breaks) for 5 years.

That's what you short sighted folks don't see. Either way, we win. What's being asked for is a better rewards balance, not punishment of people just playing within the rules.




First... you're in TEST now? WTF. Don't you have to log in for that?

Second, long ago the shutting out of players from incursions, mainly as a result of a kind of club developing, did cause a protest where fleets formed to pop the motherships.

Anybody want to know how to get the most tears you could ever see? I'm talking "Hey I just put everything I own in my freighter and it got popped in Niarja" level rage?

Form up a fleet to start popping those motherships.

Because when that first incursion protest happened in early 2012, I was in those fleets.

My participation was due mainly to the fact that incursions had become some kind of exclusive club, but I was surrounded by old school tear harvesters in that endeavor. Heck it was an inside job: people who did incursions rebelled against the grain so to speak, and took on the services of Darius III and his crew (loved flying with those guys they had their stuff together) and they were in it for the rage and tears. Made me uncomfortable but hey it's all a game.

Never before that time, and I've been at this since 2006, had I seen such foul language in local. I was born and raised in New York and that's the factory for foul language and even I was impressed. I think the channel "Grief the Bears" is still up - or at least it appears in my chat channel listings but it's always dead.

Yeah I know if CCP can be bullied into ending highsec incursion (good luck bullying Vikings) there will be many basking in the tears of the highsec incursioner, but form a fleet and pop all the moms as they appear and you can shut down all highsec incursions because on several occasions, highsec was incursion free. Then watch the rage flow with all the satisfaction of Emperor Palpatine.

Admittedly, being able to let the mothership just lager in place while farming sites is kind of dumb. Were it up to me, that would have been fixed from day 1.

So, you want to end highsec incursions, pop those moms. Be ready for some first class f**kery.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
#1226 - 2015-11-21 07:53:55 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Why would we waste time killing the mother ship? As said we will abuse this easy isk ourselves and have nothing to gain from killing the mother ship.


We'll look forward to seeing you then.

'
What do you mean? Were already here lol. I've been running incursions (with a few breaks) for 5 years.

That's what you short sighted folks don't see. Either way, we win. What's being asked for is a better rewards balance, not punishment of people just playing within the rules.




First... you're in TEST now? WTF. Don't you have to log in for that?

Second, long ago the shutting out of players from incursions, mainly as a result of a kind of club developing, did cause a protest where fleets formed to pop the motherships.

Anybody want to know how to get the most tears you could ever see? I'm talking "Hey I just put everything I own in my freighter and it got popped in Niarja" level rage?

Form up a fleet to start popping those motherships.

Because when that first incursion protest happened in early 2012, I was in those fleets.

My participation was due mainly to the fact that incursions had become some kind of exclusive club, but I was surrounded by old school tear harvesters in that endeavor. Heck it was an inside job: people who did incursions rebelled against the grain so to speak, and took on the services of Darius III and his crew (loved flying with those guys they had their stuff together) and they were in it for the rage and tears. Made me uncomfortable but hey it's all a game.

Never before that time, and I've been at this since 2006, had I seen such foul language in local. I was born and raised in New York and that's the factory for foul language and even I was impressed. I think the channel "Grief the Bears" is still up - or at least it appears in my chat channel listings but it's always dead.

Yeah I know if CCP can be bullied into ending highsec incursion (good luck bullying Vikings) there will be many basking in the tears of the highsec incursioner, but form a fleet and pop all the moms as they appear and you can shut down all highsec incursions because on several occasions, highsec was incursion free. Then watch the rage flow with all the satisfaction of Emperor Palpatine.

Admittedly, being able to let the mothership just lager in place while farming sites is kind of dumb. Were it up to me, that would have been fixed from day 1.

So, you want to end highsec incursions, pop those moms. Be ready for some first class f**kery.


I dont believe you
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1227 - 2015-11-21 08:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Second, long ago the shutting out of players from incursions, mainly as a result of a kind of club developing, did cause a protest where fleets formed to pop the motherships.

Anybody want to know how to get the most tears you could ever see? I'm talking "Hey I just put everything I own in my freighter and it got popped in Niarja" level rage?

Form up a fleet to start popping those motherships.

Because when that first incursion protest happened in early 2012, I was in those fleets.

My participation was due mainly to the fact that incursions had become some kind of exclusive club, but I was surrounded by old school tear harvesters in that endeavor. Heck it was an inside job: people who did incursions rebelled against the grain so to speak, and took on the services of Darius III and his crew (loved flying with those guys they had their stuff together) and they were in it for the rage and tears. Made me uncomfortable but hey it's all a game.

Never before that time, and I've been at this since 2006, had I seen such foul language in local. I was born and raised in New York and that's the factory for foul language and even I was impressed. I think the channel "Grief the Bears" is still up - or at least it appears in my chat channel listings but it's always dead.

Yeah I know if CCP can be bullied into ending highsec incursion (good luck bullying Vikings) there will be many basking in the tears of the highsec incursioner, but form a fleet and pop all the moms as they appear and you can shut down all highsec incursions because on several occasions, highsec was incursion free. Then watch the rage flow with all the satisfaction of Emperor Palpatine.

Admittedly, being able to let the mothership just lager in place while farming sites is kind of dumb. Were it up to me, that would have been fixed from day 1.

So, you want to end highsec incursions, pop those moms. Be ready for some first class f**kery.



A practical solution while waiting for CCP to lower incomes perhaps? If a group were to sit and plan out how to crack a typical incursion fleet's tank and then put that into action by ganking several incursion fleets from each community they would pretty quickly stop flying them. Even 1 ship loss per site would be enough to put people off; if I was an incursion runner and knew a group was out ganking incursion runners I would probably not take out my blingy vindicator and join fleets.

Popping motherships would be a lot easier and cause a similar amount of rage; I remember last year (I think) when TVP was in the middle of some drama and went around popping moms that plenty of people were annoyed. Nobody enjoys moving their battleship around and especially not when the mom will likely die by the time you make it to the new focus. It also means a lot more travelling for incursion runners and more chance for CODE. to do their thing.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1228 - 2015-11-21 08:56:24 UTC
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Why would we waste time killing the mother ship? As said we will abuse this easy isk ourselves and have nothing to gain from killing the mother ship.


We'll look forward to seeing you then.

'
What do you mean? Were already here lol. I've been running incursions (with a few breaks) for 5 years.

That's what you short sighted folks don't see. Either way, we win. What's being asked for is a better rewards balance, not punishment of people just playing within the rules.




First... you're in TEST now? WTF. Don't you have to log in for that?

Second, long ago the shutting out of players from incursions, mainly as a result of a kind of club developing, did cause a protest where fleets formed to pop the motherships.

Anybody want to know how to get the most tears you could ever see? I'm talking "Hey I just put everything I own in my freighter and it got popped in Niarja" level rage?

Form up a fleet to start popping those motherships.

Because when that first incursion protest happened in early 2012, I was in those fleets.

My participation was due mainly to the fact that incursions had become some kind of exclusive club, but I was surrounded by old school tear harvesters in that endeavor. Heck it was an inside job: people who did incursions rebelled against the grain so to speak, and took on the services of Darius III and his crew (loved flying with those guys they had their stuff together) and they were in it for the rage and tears. Made me uncomfortable but hey it's all a game.

Never before that time, and I've been at this since 2006, had I seen such foul language in local. I was born and raised in New York and that's the factory for foul language and even I was impressed. I think the channel "Grief the Bears" is still up - or at least it appears in my chat channel listings but it's always dead.

Yeah I know if CCP can be bullied into ending highsec incursion (good luck bullying Vikings) there will be many basking in the tears of the highsec incursioner, but form a fleet and pop all the moms as they appear and you can shut down all highsec incursions because on several occasions, highsec was incursion free. Then watch the rage flow with all the satisfaction of Emperor Palpatine.

Admittedly, being able to let the mothership just lager in place while farming sites is kind of dumb. Were it up to me, that would have been fixed from day 1.

So, you want to end highsec incursions, pop those moms. Be ready for some first class f**kery.


I dont believe you



Does not matter what you believe. Reality still works.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1229 - 2015-11-21 10:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
It amuses me these days how Null people who complain about their income per hour neglect to consider many benefits they are receiving.

If you're making that kind of isk per hour then you're probably in a large alliance. You're receiving all kinds of benefits as a result of a lowered income (you choose to have a lower income by being in that alliance).


You're behind a giant wall of blue with nuets being called out long before you'll ever see them.
You have full coverage SRP for PVP and depending on the group some PVE.
You have the ability to KM whore that sweet titan kill some random member of the alliance managed to tackle.
You get to take part in the battles that make the news (not so much anymore though).
You have all kinds of advantages as a result of being in that alliance.

WHat you want is everything and to eat it. You want all the positives of being in a mega alliance with free ships but you're not willing to take the lowered income that results from funding such SRPs, OPs and such.

You want that huge isk per hour but you don't want to risk venturing out on your own in null. You're not willing to do the hardwork to lead so you can decide where the corp/alliance income goes. Cause there is a **** ton of income that you're ignoring in null while focusing purely on your personal site income.


Really if Null is so awful then leave it. Once there's a mass exodus of Null CCP will be forced to address your grievances.


Mr Mieyli wrote:


A practical solution while waiting for CCP to lower incomes perhaps? If a group were to sit and plan out how to crack a typical incursion fleet's tank and then put that into action by ganking several incursion fleets from each community they would pretty quickly stop flying them. Even 1 ship loss per site would be enough to put people off; if I was an incursion runner and knew a group was out ganking incursion runners I would probably not take out my blingy vindicator and join fleets.

Popping motherships would be a lot easier and cause a similar amount of rage; I remember last year (I think) when TVP was in the middle of some drama and went around popping moms that plenty of people were annoyed. Nobody enjoys moving their battleship around and especially not when the mom will likely die by the time you make it to the new focus. It also means a lot more travelling for incursion runners and more chance for CODE. to do their thing.

This has all been done before. There was even a period where the WH groups were going to protest the WH changes by closing all the MOMs. Incursion history is full of rage pops. Including periods where incursions were closed ASAP. This is normal stuff really. The situation you spoke of was more complicated then that and involved left over beefs from the rage closes before. Sometimes there's fights over something that happened 3 years ago.

You can gank incursion ships it just takes real effort. It's not like ganking a miner or a freighter that is APing. I've seen more then a few ganks in systems while running. It's pretty obvious when there's suddenly 10 flashies in local and sometimes a raging pilot :P

Even if incursions were shut down perm I could do other things for similar or superior income. I tend to cycle through my income activities to keep from getting bored.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1230 - 2015-11-21 14:15:36 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:


If you're making that kind of isk per hour then you're probably in a large alliance. You're receiving all kinds of benefits as a result of a lowered income (you choose to have a lower income by being in that alliance).


.


So you think having an entire alliance working together to improve the space they fought to take and hold should result in lower income than running around in an NPC corp in the safest area of space?
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1231 - 2015-11-21 22:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
I have deleted some posts for violating Rule 3 Ranting and/or Rule 31 Abuse of a member of CCP.

I will leave this thread open for now. Please keep it civil. This thread will be continued to be monitored.

Feel free to review our forum rules here.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1232 - 2015-11-21 23:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
Last comment, it's turned into null sec tears again because they think null sec is special and deserves better treatment.

1, You choose to play in null sec, and you do that mainly because you think you can get space rich and/or you are after fights. First and foremost its your choice, no matter what data your provide me don't complain about other aspects of the game because for some reason the picture of null sec you dreamt of isnt what you experience.
2. Contrary to what you are saying null sec isn't the hard ship path you tell, by experience, it's a lot simpler than the picture you paint
3. The largest source of ISK faucet in the game is PVE null sec ratting which is a solo based activity. It's a false economy because you get rewarded by completing the PVE content solo with more PVE content that can be completed solo. Let's not mention that there is no isk sink to this part of the game.
4. Let's not mention the 1000's of moons that are available to null sec dweebs that generate a huge amount of passive ISK.
5. Despite null sec being about fights and huge amounts of PVP content all day every day and this prevents people from completing PVE content, this is far from the truth also.

Now, because a lot of things in null sec require very little maintenance once it's in place, any activity in Eve regardless of where it is, should always pay more. incursions are part of null sec and can be farmed like they are in HS. I don't care what you say about HS being safe, it's been well documented that with the high amount of players in HS, there is a lot more risk because there is a lot more unknowns.

On that note i'm done. Null sec isn't broken because of HS incursions, It's broken because you let it get to this state of stagnation. If you actually let people live in null sec without wanting to absorb them and add them to your collective you might actually get the content you are after.

PS: Because sites spawn in a controlled manner in incrusions if you really do feel insulted that a small number of well organised people make more isk than you do (mainly because your lazy), anyone in HS can run incursions and if more people were bold enough to take on the task of organizing their own fleet the isk/hour would decrease. Finally lets not mention you do have an opportunity to make more isk than a HS incursion runner by running the incursions that mobilze in null sec with your own fleet. Apparently, you already work well together to look after space so that shouldn't be too difficult for you....
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#1233 - 2015-11-22 00:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
1. Whole point of Null is that it should have highest reward due to high risk. EVE online is built on Risk = Reward. High Sec Incursion don't match this ideal.

2. It do take a alliance to set up a good sov. I am fairly sure that 10-15men corp won't able to hold SOV from anyone for long time or have good income.

3. Report said Bounty Payout which including high sec L4 mission and so. Until CCP release breakdown of Bounty Payout. we can't determine if null rat pay more than L4 mission bounty.

4. You are trolling if you think Moon harvest contribute isk faucet. or everyone get their own private moon

5. High sec is more safe than Null, especially if we talk about fleet that has logi back them up.
I am dam* sure that my alliance won't last 30 min in goon if we try to do incursion in their space.
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1234 - 2015-11-22 00:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
unidenify wrote:
1. Whole point of Null is that it should have highest reward due to high risk. EVE online is built on Risk = Reward. High Sec Incursion don't match this ideal.


Nope - only risk is if an attacking force wants to move in. You have scouts and intel coming in from all corners of your region. There is very little risk in null sec.

unidenify wrote:

2. It do take a alliance to set up a good sov. I am fairly sure that 10-15men corp won't able to hold SOV from anyone for long time or have good income.


LOL - We held sov in a constellation for a good 6 months made friends and after realising there is more content in HS we moved back.


unidenify wrote:

3. Report said Bounty Payout which including high sec L4 mission and so. Until CCP release breakdown of Bounty Payout. we can't determine if null rat pay more than L4 mission bounty.


They've already done that report last year.

unidenify wrote:

4. You are trolling if you think Moon harvest contribute isk faucet. or everyone get their own private moon


LOL you do realise that you can make a huge amount of passive isk on dead moons? Don't call me a troll because you don't know how to achieve it.

unidenify wrote:

5. High sec is more safe than Null, especially if we talk about fleet that has logi back them up.
I am dam* sure that my alliance won't last 30 min in goon if we try to do incursion in their space.


Wrong again, since HS contains the highest proportion of players this also means that there are an infinity amount of unknowns. Not like null sec where an unknown results in the immediate stoppage of activities until the unknown has moved on.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#1235 - 2015-11-22 01:07:25 UTC
your basis on Null sec being safe due to intel require network of large number of players that is excess 40 that you need for high sec incursion.

second, you assume that I can wander to anywhere in Null and do incursion without worrying about have someone drop me because of intel channel. That is complete wrong.

Again, our intel channel is only good as players that use intel channel. and are limit to where our member are at.

You don't see us to do null sec incursion in null that is home to Goonswarm, or Gorgon Empire.

Where your high sec incursion players have 2 powerful passive defense mechanics in place that don't exist for Null Incursion fleet. NPC corp's wardec immune and Concord. It mean that it require more effort to kill high sec fleet than null sec fleet of same number.


Hilti Enaka wrote:

Wrong again, since HS contains the highest proportion of players this also means that there are an infinity amount of unknowns. Not like null sec where an unknown results in the immediate stoppage of activities until the unknown has moved on.


you admit that despite unknown factor, they aren't threatening to your operation because nothing they can really do to harm you.
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1236 - 2015-11-22 01:31:14 UTC
unidenify wrote:
your basis on Null sec being safe due to intel require network of large number of players that is excess 40 that you need for high sec incursion.
second, you assume that I can wander to anywhere in Null and do incursion without worrying about have someone drop me because of intel channel. That is complete wrong.



1. LOL - one played cloaked at the start of a pipe or at entrances to regions.
2. all you need to do is wait until one spawns in your region.

unidenify wrote:

Again, our intel channel is only good as players that use intel channel. and are limit to where our member are at.


3. But you keep telling me you've worked hard to get your space why neglect it through lazyness.

unidenify wrote:

You don't see us to do null sec incursion in null that is home to Goonswarm, or Gorgon Empire.


Wrong again, you used to do them. Infact Goons were the first alliance to get a Rev BPC from popping the MOM.


unidenify wrote:

Where your high sec incursion players have 2 powerful passive defense mechanics in place that don't exist for Null Incursion fleet. NPC corp's wardec immune and Concord. It mean that it require more effort to kill high sec fleet than null sec fleet of same number.


Why kill, you could compete...

unidenify wrote:

you admit that despite unknown factor, they aren't threatening to your operation because nothing they can really do to harm you.


Actually, Yes there are, everytime you run you are trusting complete strangers not to let your ship get destroyed.

Keep them coming
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1237 - 2015-11-22 02:06:27 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:


1, You choose to play in null sec, and you do that mainly because you think you can get space rich and/or you are after fights. First and foremost its your choice, no matter what data your provide me don't complain about other aspects of the game because for some reason the picture of null sec you dreamt of isnt what you experience.


Who is going to move out to the dangerous areas of space that require more investment and effort if you can earn more with near zero investment and risk in the safest areas? The big issue with sov null is a lack of incentives to fight over it.

Hilti Enaka wrote:

2. Contrary to what you are saying null sec isn't the hard ship path you tell, by experience, it's a lot simpler than the picture you paint


Null sov space is a hell of a lot more complicated, expensive to run and risky than anything in highsec.

Hilti Enaka wrote:

3. The largest source of ISK faucet in the game is PVE null sec ratting which is a solo based activity. It's a false economy because you get rewarded by completing the PVE content solo with more PVE content that can be completed solo. Let's not mention that there is no isk sink to this part of the game.


Ah this gem. Largest isk faucet does not equal largest income. The very best income from anoms is 90-100 mil/hr if uninterrupted and if the system is empty of others running sites. This is on par with running level 4 missions in highsec.

Hilti Enaka wrote:

4. Let's not mention the 1000's of moons that are available to null sec dweebs that generate a huge amount of passive ISK.


None of those moons are available to line members, they are alliance assets as it requires alliance level investments to protect them.

Hilti Enaka wrote:

5. Despite null sec being about fights and huge amounts of PVP content all day every day and this prevents people from completing PVE content, this is far from the truth also.


We have by far the most secure space in sov null and get get interruptions from solo and small gangs several times an hour.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#1238 - 2015-11-22 02:29:13 UTC
Now that the mechanics have been figured out, and its being farmed, the reward/risk is OP. (i remember the welps one day one of incursions)

A tweak in the mechanics, last "boss" has more health or something, add some more risk, skilled player rewarded, scrubs weeded out.

@JerryTPepridge
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1239 - 2015-11-22 03:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Jenn aSide wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:


Sometimes fixing "things" ends up not going the way some people (like you) want them to. This problem you are currently describing is the least of "things" that needs fixing in Eve atm. There are tons of other "things" that CCP should be focusing on in Eve right now instead of humoring nullbears desire to nerf hi-sec income into the ground cause they can make close to what they make in null.


Close? It's not even close. You can test this for yourself. Take a DPS ship you would use for incursions to null. Try to make isk with it. You generally won't get close to half.

Of course, again, yo'd have to be interested in the truth of this matter to expend the effort to test things out for yourself. Very few who defend this measurably broken status quo would be willing to do so (mainly because they already know it's broken).

Quote:

Unfortunately there are some individuals that lack the ability to just mind their own friggin business and just enjoy doing their own thing which are the main ones complaining about Hi-Sec income (I'm not naming anyone cause they know who they are).


That's a common thing. Well, it is our business, we play EVE too. And some of us actually care about the PVE scheme in this game, and want to see it work correctly, or are close to correctly as it could. Being able to make more income with a stealth bomber in FW or a logi ship in high sec than you can risking an expensive pve fit ship in null is broken and unbalanced.

If I wer ein to tinfoil I'd proclaim that CCP wants it this way because that makes us have incursions and FW alts...

Quote:

Self interest?... yes of course it is. Everyone plays Eve for their own reasons and enjoyment. Why is that a bad thing? Jenn, are you any different? If you say you're not then you're either lying or deceiving yourself.


I'm not the one lying here, I'm the one with all the verifiable facts here (notice that people like you and on your side and linked ZERO counter evidence?).

The problem with the kind of self interest you types are displaying is that it's short sighted. You actually and honestly don't understand that the current combat pve status quo is screwing you in the long run, and that a better rewards balance would alleviate a whole lot of problems. "nullbears" would be in null, high sec ganking might decrease in frequency (not that its a lot now, but much of it is aimed at people moving incursion focuses), new player sin high sec would have an easier time breaking tinto group pve, CONCORD, SOE and other types of LP wouldn't be depressed as they are by null alts farming, the actual isk in all of our wallets might stop resembling Zimbabwe dollars for all they can buy with all this isk being in the game....

..And the big one, a more sensible wealth generation scheme tied to relative danger might even help PLEX prices...

The above is why more than a few of us try to corner a DEV or two at CCP events and talk about this stuff. Because they sure as hell ain't gonna hear the truth on these forums because you people think someone is out to get in your damn imaginary space wallets.


When CCP makes the combat pve rewards scheme make more sense and you people get to see what we were talking about when things get better for all of us, I'm going to link this thread and remind you of your opposition to it.




Harassing Devs at CCP events over something like this is going a little overboard don't cha think? I mean it's not really a big issue and if anything I say it's a good thing.

Here is a known list of the most notorious isk faucets in Eve

High Sec--------Incursions----100-150 mill isk per hour per char (requires establishment with a good FC in a good Fleet)

Low Sec---------FW missions in SBs------estimated 100-150 mill isk per hour per char (requires extensive knowledge running FW Lev 4 missions)

Null Sec----------Moon Mining (Unlimited passive isk potential), DEDs/Complexes (varies on drop valuing from 300 to 1 bill isk) and Anomalies (average 80-120 mill isk per hour per char consistently) *Requires endless boot licking*

Wormholes------C3s in 2 RR Domis (when running sites 140-220 Mill isk per hour), C4s in 2 Rattlesnakes (when running sites 220-300 mill isk per hour), C5s in 2 Marauders (when running sites 300-400 mill isk per hour), Cap Escalations is the biggest isk faucet in the game with the potential to make up to 2 bill isk per hour from what I heard (not my area of expertise)


As you can see here, CCP has isk faucets in all areas of space in New Eden and I believe this is done intentionally because CCP wanted to create diversity by spreading an income stream into all areas of space. This way it prevents everyone from crowding into just 1 or 2 parts of New Eden where all the isk making opportunities lay and to prevent protests from one area space dweller about another making more isk etc etc.....

You can make an argument about how the risk vs reward being too high for Hi-Sec incursions but I believe it's necessary to have a good isk making activity in relative safety in Eve. Why? because it allows players who left Eve for awhile to come back and reestablish themselves. Once they've made or remade their connections they move on to their thing. If this opportunity isn't available, then a lot of these players won't be able to make a comeback and will just give up altogether.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1240 - 2015-11-22 04:10:29 UTC
You keep on mentioning moons yet you know nothing about them.