These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5781 - 2015-11-18 19:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

All that remains is to see how CCP will implement it.

CCP we all waiting for announcement

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
SS Donaldson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5782 - 2015-11-18 19:17:47 UTC
I am shocked by all the negative responses, and everyone's skewed perception on what pay to win would actually look like in this game. I think this idea is brilliant idea! I have an alt with 20m SP that i don't use anymore who I've kept around waiting for a moment just like this! CCP is offering us a way to consolidate SP among all of the 10 characters you people have spread across 5 accounts. It offers a way to "respec" your character if you will. If you started off as a miner or industrialist and decided to go straight combat you know hove a way to shift those un used SP to a more practical area of your characters development. Or if your 5 days away from -blank- Battleship 5, to get a slight boost so you dont have to wait as long.

As for Pay to Win. this game is based on what **** your flying and what your fit is, not how many skill points you have. If they started selling aurum only ships and modules at like, meta lvl 24 with special ammunition only available in the New Edan Store. THAT would be pay to win, and that i would not be able to stand by.

I hope this feature does make its way into the game, I am excited for it!


Doesn't matter how rich or smart a person holding scissors is, rock still wins
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5783 - 2015-11-18 20:18:08 UTC
SS Donaldson wrote:
I am shocked by all the negative responses, and everyone's skewed perception on what pay to win would actually look like in this game. I think this idea is brilliant idea! I have an alt with 20m SP that i don't use anymore who I've kept around waiting for a moment just like this! CCP is offering us a way to consolidate SP among all of the 10 characters you people have spread across 5 accounts. It offers a way to "respec" your character if you will. If you started off as a miner or industrialist and decided to go straight combat you know hove a way to shift those un used SP to a more practical area of your characters development. Or if your 5 days away from -blank- Battleship 5, to get a slight boost so you dont have to wait as long.

As for Pay to Win. this game is based on what **** your flying and what your fit is, not how many skill points you have. If they started selling aurum only ships and modules at like, meta lvl 24 with special ammunition only available in the New Edan Store. THAT would be pay to win, and that i would not be able to stand by.

I hope this feature does make its way into the game, I am excited for it!


Doesn't matter how rich or smart a person holding scissors is, rock still wins


""It's a game based on the **** your flying""

Take that 20million SP alt: Get out a Credit Card and spend some $$ - Then buy the Skill Points that at present can only gain through time investment.

I have a Gold Credit Card & can afford to pay for my character to be able to fly a Carrier -
You only have a Blue Credit Card & can only afford the SP to get your pilot into a Cruiser -

I'm rich and bought a ROCK - good luck with only being able to afford the Scissors


General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5784 - 2015-11-18 20:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I have a Gold Credit Card & can afford to pay for my character to be able to fly a Carrier -
You only have a Blue Credit Card & can only afford the SP to get your pilot into a Cruiser -

I'm rich and bought a ROCK - good luck with only being able to afford the Scissors

Do you hunt Cruisers with Carrier or what? Even Gold Credit Card can't buy expirence and knowledge of the game for you.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Take that 20million SP alt: Get out a Credit Card and spend some $$ - Then buy the Skill Points that at present can only gain through time investment.

Or get out a Credit Card right now and go to the bazaar. Furthermore Skill Points must be trained before exrtacting so even TSP require time investments.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
#5785 - 2015-11-18 20:53:34 UTC
SS Donaldson wrote:
I am shocked by all the negative responses, and everyone's skewed perception on what pay to win would actually look like in this game. I think this idea is brilliant idea! I have an alt with 20m SP that i don't use anymore who I've kept around waiting for a moment just like this! CCP is offering us a way to consolidate SP among all of the 10 characters you people have spread across 5 accounts. It offers a way to "respec" your character if you will. If you started off as a miner or industrialist and decided to go straight combat you know hove a way to shift those un used SP to a more practical area of your characters development. Or if your 5 days away from -blank- Battleship 5, to get a slight boost so you dont have to wait as long.

As for Pay to Win. this game is based on what **** your flying and what your fit is, not how many skill points you have. If they started selling aurum only ships and modules at like, meta lvl 24 with special ammunition only available in the New Edan Store. THAT would be pay to win, and that i would not be able to stand by.

I hope this feature does make its way into the game, I am excited for it!

Doesn't matter how rich or smart a person holding scissors is, rock still wins


Yup in the same boat. I have a 41 million SP character that is all over the place in terms of skills, from a time when I was new and experimenting with all kinds of activities. I had accepted to just let it go for a cheap price on the bazaar but luckily this announcement came in time.

So many ideas on what to do with it now. Probably will harvest its skill points to zero and then biomass it.

Veraca Darmazaf
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5786 - 2015-11-18 21:04:44 UTC
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:
Yup in the same boat. I have a 41 million SP character that is all over the place in terms of skills, from a time when I was new and experimenting with all kinds of activities. I had accepted to just let it go for a cheap price on the bazaar but luckily this announcement came in time.

So many ideas on what to do with it now. Probably will harvest its skill points to zero and then biomass it.


Dev Blog wrote:
Characters with less than 5 million skillpoints may not use Skill Extractors, they can still use Skill Packets


Not to zero, which may or may not affect your decision.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5787 - 2015-11-18 21:18:07 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I have a Gold Credit Card & can afford to pay for my character to be able to fly a Carrier -
You only have a Blue Credit Card & can only afford the SP to get your pilot into a Cruiser -

I'm rich and bought a ROCK - good luck with only being able to afford the Scissors

Do you hunt Cruisers with Carrier or what? Even Gold Credit Card can't buy expirence and knowledge of the game for you.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Take that 20million SP alt: Get out a Credit Card and spend some $$ - Then buy the Skill Points that at present can only gain through time investment.

Or get out a Credit Card right now and go to the bazaar. Furthermore Skill Points must be trained before exrtacting so even TSP require time investments.



Hunt Cruiser with a carrier - Yeah... Right ... Well I guess you deliberately missed the point,
It doesn't matter what kind of ROCK I buy with my imaginary Gold Card - Market Skills, Building Skills, Ships Skills or Whatever Skills - The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.


Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5788 - 2015-11-18 21:27:03 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Hunt Cruiser with a carrier - Yeah... Right ... Well I guess you deliberately missed the point,
It doesn't matter what kind of ROCK I buy with my imaginary Gold Card - Market Skills, Building Skills, Ships Skills or Whatever Skills - The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.
Why do either of the need a credit card at all? Maybe they should just learn to make isk. Problem solved. A few days training leaves you more than adequately set up for some basic market trading.

The person who knows the game gets the same advantage as someone with a CC and gets to keep their money. More than that they get to reap the rewards of the game time bought with the CC and get those same privileges.
Veraca Darmazaf
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5789 - 2015-11-18 21:31:05 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Hunt Cruiser with a carrier - Yeah... Right ... Well I guess you deliberately missed the point,
It doesn't matter what kind of ROCK I buy with my imaginary Gold Card - Market Skills, Building Skills, Ships Skills or Whatever Skills - The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.



By that logic currently the person who has spent the most time subscribed has an in-game advantage, and this is beyond the advantage they hopefully have in experience playing the game. I don't find that to be a better situation, and it definitely turns off some potential new players.

Do I think the proposed system is the ideal fix? No. Personally I'd like something closer to tossing the skill point system entirely, but I can't see that happening. Unfortunately I have no better ideas that CCP would likely go for, as they wouldn't add to their revenue the way this does.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5790 - 2015-11-18 21:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee wrote:

The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Now your point is a litle bit clearer but I still don't get it. How anyone might care about "SP advantage"? There is a lot of people who already have that advantage over you and you can't do anything about exept buying a new toon. Does it bother you? Or you bother about "person with the deepest pockets" who at the same time your personal enemy?
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.

"Person with the deepest pockets" don't care about alts, source of SP, ect. He could just buy toon from bazaar right now if he want to have "advantage " over you personally.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
#5791 - 2015-11-18 21:56:13 UTC
Veraca Darmazaf wrote:
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:
Yup in the same boat. I have a 41 million SP character that is all over the place in terms of skills, from a time when I was new and experimenting with all kinds of activities. I had accepted to just let it go for a cheap price on the bazaar but luckily this announcement came in time.

So many ideas on what to do with it now. Probably will harvest its skill points to zero and then biomass it.


Dev Blog wrote:
Characters with less than 5 million skillpoints may not use Skill Extractors, they can still use Skill Packets


Not to zero, which may or may not affect your decision.


Yea, forgot that bit. Most likely will focus it down to a specific role at around 5 million skill points, then sell it off for a few billion.

At any rate, it's a better way of parting from 41 million skill point character.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5792 - 2015-11-18 22:00:28 UTC
Veraca Darmazaf wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Hunt Cruiser with a carrier - Yeah... Right ... Well I guess you deliberately missed the point,
It doesn't matter what kind of ROCK I buy with my imaginary Gold Card - Market Skills, Building Skills, Ships Skills or Whatever Skills - The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.



By that logic currently the person who has spent the most time subscribed has an in-game advantage, and this is beyond the advantage they hopefully have in experience playing the game. I don't find that to be a better situation, and it definitely turns off some potential new players.

Do I think the proposed system is the ideal fix? No. Personally I'd like something closer to tossing the skill point system entirely, but I can't see that happening. Unfortunately I have no better ideas that CCP would likely go for, as they wouldn't add to their revenue the way this does.



Some people are against re-mapping skill points on a character - I'm not one of them

Would you pay $15 or 1.2bill ISK for a PLEX to buy a remap skill points tool for a character ?

Would you pay $30 or 2.2bill ISK to free up an alt slot (once sold) by packaging a toon for sale on the market ?
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5793 - 2015-11-18 22:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

The point is the person with the deepest pockets gets an in-game advantage

Now your point is a litle bit clearer but I still don't get it. How anyone might care about "SP advantage"? There is a lot of people who already have that advantage over you and you can't do anything about exept buying a new toon. Does it bother you? Or you bother about "person with the deepest pockets" who at the same time your personal enemy?
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Buying a WHOLE CHARACTER at The Bazaar to replace one of my alts is NOT the same as buying the golden bullet Skill Point training ammo to ADD points over and above the ones you could add through normal subscription.

"Person with the deepest pockets" don't care about alts, source of SP, ect. He could just buy toon from bazaar right now if he want to have "advantage " over you personally.


When it comes to Skill Points: At present there is a limit on the amount of RL cash (or PLEX which is RL cash by proxy) that can be spent on a single account.

*I pay my subs $12
*I buy 2 dual training certificates (a form of P2W)

I could pay 2 PLEX or $30 to replace one of my alts - BUT - it is just a replacement & SP gain remains constrained by the subscription/dual training mechanic.


This is a subscription based game and the value of that subscription 'IS' the number of Skill points my character has trained and is presently training.

Because:- EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME CAN BE BOUGHT
(market availability withstanding)

If you take away this constraint the game becomes pure PAY to WIN
Rhalina Sedai
Doomheim
#5794 - 2015-11-18 22:49:24 UTC
That's awesome news hope it happens. Roll a new toon join an enemies corp as newbie. Spend six month working your way up, rob em blind leave corp give CCP a bit of dosh and send all the skill points to your unidentified main character. Possibilities are endless, now all we need is concord out of high sec and we're good to go. Shocked

FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5795 - 2015-11-18 23:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee, I would appreciate if you will answer on my previous questions.
Iowa Banshee wrote:
I pay my subs $12

Does it make you "P2W" because some players buying plexes with isk? They are spend their time playing to earn isk and then they activate that plex to train skills. When you just paying.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5796 - 2015-11-18 23:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Iowa Banshee wrote:
When it comes to Skill Points: At present there is a limit on the amount of RL cash (or PLEX which is RL cash by proxy) that can be spent on a single account.

*I pay my subs $12
*I buy 2 dual training certificates (a form of P2W)

I could pay 2 PLEX or $30 to replace one of my alts - BUT - it is just a replacement & SP gain remains constrained by the subscription/dual training mechanic.


This is a subscription based game and the value of that subscription 'IS' the number of Skill points my character has trained and is presently training.

Because:- EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME CAN BE BOUGHT
(market availability withstanding)

If you take away this constraint the game becomes pure PAY to WIN
No, the value of a sub is not the SP of the characters on it, else new players would pay a fraction of the sub cost that vets have and/or characters themselves would be nontransferable. A sub is simple access, not a guarantee of SP accumulation (try letting your queue lapse or losing a T3 cruiser and see what happens).

Further this pretty much throws the fundamental elements of in game trade out of the window by declaring the market P2W in entirety.

At which point it needs to be asked, if the existence of a means to create account level commodities, via real money with in game value, negates the value of the market for a player, is that player anything short of crazy for continuing to play the game? If the goal here is to stick to SP as the last bastion of defense against this definition of P2W, then the only acceptable gameplay was skill queue online to begin with barring inconsistent application of principle. And if those players only stick to it when convenient, why should the rest of us be beholden to those definitions?
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5797 - 2015-11-19 00:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Would you pay $15 or 1.2bill ISK for a PLEX to buy a remap skill points tool for a character ?

Would you pay $30 or 2.2bill ISK to free up an alt slot (once sold) by packaging a toon for sale on the market ?

No and no because it won't help me(noob with low SP and not many isk) as much as SP trading.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
#5798 - 2015-11-19 01:05:19 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Raffael Ramirez wrote:

But what is proposed is a fundamental change of game mechanics, that to be perfectly honest don't need fixing.

Maybe you think that way because you already have SP as much as you want?
Quote:
Date of Birth: 2003-10-13

Raffael Ramirez wrote:
If you want a char with more SK/P you can buy it - nothing wrong with it so there is a way it is even legal - why do it?

Yea, but SP trading will allow me to keep indentity and spend isk in more gradual way.
Raffael Ramirez wrote:
Maybe gamers left because of changes/mistakes made in the past which set EVE on the course it is now, maybe the vision of EVE changed, maybe CCP needs to do this to survive as a company.

Or maybe old players will quit no matter what because of insurmountable circumstances of life and current flow of new players is not enough to cover the loss. Changes like this required to increase the flow.



I feel sorry for you bro, you completely missed the point and that is probably another symptom of what I have described.

I deleted the rest of my answer since I have no intention to start another endless mudslinging contest. I came here to voice my concern, as a customer that is my only right.

Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5799 - 2015-11-19 01:09:31 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee, I would appreciate if you will answer on my previous questions.
Iowa Banshee wrote:
I pay my subs $12

Does it make you "P2W" because some players buying plexes with isk? They are spend their time playing to earn isk and then they activate that plex to train skills. When you just paying.


All Plex in game are the result of people purchasing them. They are not put on the market by CCP

Someone has to buy them & if you are using a Plex to sub an account you are just converting ISK back into a PLEX before consuming it.

If you are Plexing an account you are just better at earning isk than the person that bought the plex in the first place.

An account cannot consume less than 1 to continuing gaining SP and cannot consume more than 3 per account for SP gain

Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5800 - 2015-11-19 01:14:46 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Would you pay $15 or 1.2bill ISK for a PLEX to buy a remap skill points tool for a character ?

Would you pay $30 or 2.2bill ISK to free up an alt slot (once sold) by packaging a toon for sale on the market ?

No and no because it won't help me(noob with low SP and not many isk) as much as SP trading.



But ... you have repeated again and again that you can always buy a toon at the bazaar -

Oh my bad on re-reading I see that you have Low SP & Little ISK and want to be able to Pay to Win with real life money

Well no wonder you like this idea