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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Avvy
Doomheim
#2541 - 2015-11-17 20:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Prof Anarchia wrote:
[]

True - but the same can be said of everything in life (universe expanding, sun melting, extinction of species) - philosophers have been grappling with "what is the point?" for centuries.



I've probably considered that question amongst others for around 20 years. I don't actually think there is one, we're here so might as well make the most of it.



I also used to be a natural analyst, I would analyse practically everything, one day I realised I had stopped doing it. So there's hope for you yet.
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#2542 - 2015-11-17 21:05:03 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:
[]

True - but the same can be said of everything in life (universe expanding, sun melting, extinction of species) - philosophers have been grappling with "what is the point?" for centuries.



I've probably considered that question amongst others for around 20 years. I don't actually think there is one, we're here so might as well make the most of it.



I also used to be a natural analyst, analysis practically everything, one day I realised I had stopped doing it. So there's hope for you yet.


Haha! Well, here's hoping....and then maybe I can relax and just have fun :) (or perhaps analysing is fun? - who knows)
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#2543 - 2015-11-18 00:53:38 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:



There are other means to get a story out of EvE that don't rely on CCP adding content. Generally EvE is about people more then it is about the content, but if you care about stories then you might consider the following:

- Corp leadership / diplomat

Having a leadership position, allows you to actively shape the future of your corp. You'll interact a lot with people, who have their own aspirations, goals and opinions. You're part of history in the making, even if it only ends up being a footnote in the larger context ... you will have tales to tell.

- Role-play

I'd say there are two types of active role-players in EvE. Those who bother with background stories for their character and also keep posting on the RP forum (Intergalactic summit).

And then there are those who just join a corp / alliance aligned with one of the empires / factions. Alliances like CVA (Curatores Veritatis Alliance) and U'K (Ushra Khan) spring to mind.

In both groups you will find people who care about the lore of the game, but also pvp players, industrialists ...
Explorers would be more in the first group, since they usually fly on their own.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#2544 - 2015-11-18 06:40:24 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

I got a lot more out of your post about how for the last 12 years we have had summer slumps followed by recovery in the fall and winter, except this year where the numbers keep going down and somehow its ok because you're an Aussie and the sun is shinning?!

Oh and I love that part about how I must be a "Yank" because it isn't summer where I live... as if Merika' is the only place that has the seasons of the year Roll


why so defensive yank?

what point are you trying to prove here? that you were "right" ?

ok m8 m8

@JerryTPepridge
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2545 - 2015-11-18 07:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Oh and I love that part about how I must be a "Yank" because it isn't summer where I live... as if Merika' is the only place that has the seasons of the year Roll

How is that different to saying:

Market McSelling Alt = "but no one could call November summer time, unless you live in Brazil."

As if, anyone in a place where it is warm at the moment must be Brazilian, as if Brazil is the only place it is warm in November.

Maybe I missed how one is different from the other. Both seem wrong.
Pound Cakeee
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2546 - 2015-11-18 11:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pound Cakeee
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:


Good thing that you are not a dev...

1) Even at times when we regularly had close to 60K players online vast areas of space were totally empty. We did not need more space then, we surely do not need more space with half the amount of players online at prime time.

2) Does not change anything. All you do is split up an alliance of the size of goonswarm into 3 alliances instead.

3) Titans have very little purpose already in the current sov system so technically they are already dead.

4) Taking away one of the few benefits that come with holding sov won´t motivate anyone to play the game, if anything if you remove them you achieve exactly the opposite of what you are thinking this change would do.

5) People who quit over getting ganked in 1.0 - 0.8 will also quit the game when they are ganked in 0.7 - 0.5 as far as changes to high sec goes, I have not seen a single change that made high sec safer that caused an increase in players. In an environmet where gankers had a much easier life the game kept growing, making it safer did not help with getting more players interested especially not long term players.

6) Can not say anything against that, but that is not really a new Idea either. People have been promoting something like that for a long time.

7) If you want plex for as low as 750 mil on the market go and buy plex with RL $ and crash the market (this might be expensive though and the price will go up again after a while. Setting a hard cap for plex price would completly go against the idea of a player driven ecomony (and the argument: "muh I don´t want to grind that much for gametime does not count").

8) Procurers and skiffs have more than enough EHP if you fit them correctly. If you chose to pick your ship by ISK/Hour you can make that is your decision, but the options to greatly reduce the chance to get ganked already exist.

9) While I am not a fan of the new Sov System (I am not a fan of flying frigs or playing catch) POS spamming wars were tedious as well.

10) Afaik wormholes are not too populated as well as it is, as long as you can go into wormholes solo and do stuff there I don´t see why we would need more of them.

11) Getting your income directly into your wallet makes ratting a lot more comfortable, as you don´t have to bother with flying tons of worthless loot around to sell it. If you want loot there are more than enough other regions where you can farm loot. The only reason I see here why ccp should swap to less bounty + loot for drones is if they feel like they need to reduce the amount of ISK getting injected into the economy, but I am sure they have a better insight into that topic than any player does.

12) Unless you completly rewrite the whole code of how anoms, missions and everything works PvE will always be predictable and thus not very challenging. If you want them to be challenging you can always use a ship that makes them harder to run.

On the marketing part I can only agree. CCP could do a lot more in that area.



1/2/3) I'm torn, I understand that most of null is unused however I also feel like there is a lot of space that is too close to empire. I agree with there being more systems but perhaps there should be a cap on how many systems an alliance can control... IE the TCU offline's if there isn't enough activity. This could be done where:

Alliance X has: 15000 players and approximately 200 systems.
There would have to be a dynamic algorithm saying 2/3's of those characters are actual people.
Alliance size would be compared to the systems and then a dynamic number (based off TCU/IHUB) of what you have to earn daily IN that system.

That number would be both in pirates destroyed as well as amount of ORE mined.
Let's just say that you would have to keep the belts/base anom's clear for at a minimum 75% - 80% of the time and mine out at least half of the belts daily.

Then you begin getting I-hub upgrades and these numbers go up. With I-hub's the time it would take to lose sov based on this mechanic would increase by one day per type of loss (Pirate or ORE)
So lets say that you have an ORE upgrade of 2 and a Pirate upgrade of 5.
You would have 3 days to mine out not only A base of half the ORE of ONE day but also 3 days to mine out the required amount to maintain level 3 ORE. Level 5 pirate would be the same only calculated in belt's/anom's cleared and NPC's killed or ISK via bounty gained.

Titan's are neat.

Yes, this would push for more PVE and in turn would have some funky effects on the market... ( exceptionally larger amount of minerals being mined as well as isk being gained) But it also forces alliances not to "over extend" and force other players to rent from them. That whole concept is absolutely absurd. At no time should anyone be forced to rent something from someone who can't actively defend every system. It may be seen as a change to prevent people from holding SOV the way they want to but that's just what mechanic's are...The game shouldn't be easy to play and this land grab nonsense is stupid.

5) I entirely believe that your chance of being ganked should be next to none. Security status should dictate the amount of time it takes for a Concord/ Faction security and logistics fleet to arrive and both rep you and kill your attacker. One thing that discourages new players are people that take advantage of the fact that new players either don't know better or can't defend themselves while trying to learn the game.

as for the rest of the initial post I have nothing to comment on here. I feel as if these two major changes were implemented that EvE's numbers would skyrocket once more... Also, more marketing.
If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#2547 - 2015-11-19 00:02:02 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Could you sit and watch a tv series that revolves around characters talking endlessly about nothing in particular day after day?


There was this show called Seinfeld that was pitched as exactly that and it had a pretty good run.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#2548 - 2015-11-19 18:19:27 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Could you sit and watch a tv series that revolves around characters talking endlessly about nothing in particular day after day?


There was this show called Seinfeld that was pitched as exactly that and it had a pretty good run.







Heard of it, but never watched it. I don't think it was very popular in the UK; not even entirely sure it was shown here. Big Brother was popular for a brief period, so I suppose you're right - some can and do enjoy sitting and watching endless meaningless dialogue for hours on end (not saying Seinfeld was meaningless as never saw it so don't know).

God, Eve is such an achingly frustrating game. How can something so painfully dull be so infinitely fascinating? I ask this in all honesty. Is there a submilnal script running in the background? I log on a couple of times a day and stare at my ship for a minute, rearrange skills I will probably never use, and log off. I check the forum every evening - even when unsubbed. Sometimes I can waste an hour reading forum posts. And yet I don't even play!

Oh well, sub is up in a couple of days. I'll probably get the itch again in a few months. I'll definitely resub if CCP releases a huge pve content package, and especially if exploration is deepened into a lore groove rather than a can flip. For those who love it the way it is - I wish you well and hope you continue enjoying the game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2549 - 2015-11-19 19:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Could you sit and watch a tv series that revolves around characters talking endlessly about nothing in particular day after day?


There was this show called Seinfeld that was pitched as exactly that and it had a pretty good run.







Heard of it, but never watched it. I don't think it was very popular in the UK; not even entirely sure it was shown here. Big Brother was popular for a brief period, so I suppose you're right - some can and do enjoy sitting and watching endless meaningless dialogue for hours on end (not saying Seinfeld was meaningless as never saw it so don't know).

God, Eve is such an achingly frustrating game. How can something so painfully dull be so infinitely fascinating? I ask this in all honesty. Is there a submilnal script running in the background? I log on a couple of times a day and stare at my ship for a minute, rearrange skills I will probably never use, and log off. I check the forum every evening - even when unsubbed. Sometimes I can waste an hour reading forum posts. And yet I don't even play!

Oh well, sub is up in a couple of days. I'll probably get the itch again in a few months. I'll definitely resub if CCP releases a huge pve content package, and especially if exploration is deepened into a lore groove rather than a can flip. For those who love it the way it is - I wish you well and hope you continue enjoying the game.


What you are describing are personal issues, not game issues. The game you find achingly dull is the same game that makes me want to call in sick because I woke up in the morning and had an idea about a new fit or technique i want to try out but don't have enough time to log in and try.

It's why i have EFT, Pyfa , EVE Mon and jEVEassets on a thumb drive on my key chain... There is no subliminal script, EVE is fun and interesting to people with the right kinds of personalities and entertainment needs, and uninteresting to others. I know a guy who literally builds these things for fun, I can't even stand the idea, but he's at it all the time. Spoiler alert, he cheats lol, if you look hard you can see where he glued bottle halves together Big smile. The same guy tried EVE for a month and hated it.

You need to ask yourself what is fun and (or) interesting to you, and whether or not you can do that in this game. I know what I like to do (figure out new ways to murder npcs, figure out ways to outwit people who bring unwanted pvp to me, being part of a group and holding space, and a few other things) and EVE lets me do it. That's the key to enjoying EVE imo...

...Waiting for the developers to deliver content you like to you, not so much.
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#2550 - 2015-11-19 20:26:28 UTC
Well, as said, I'm glad people enjoy the game...they have created something quite spectacular, and I can understand why you want to rush home to log on. I felt like that when first playing. When I first saw the visuals I was blown away - I actually felt as if I was in space.

I've done the things you've said - set goals, been part of a sov holding group, tinkered with fits. It's ok for a time, but this is where we differ, as said in an earlier post. I need a narrative. I don't need the continuous spawning of the same anoms in the same systems with no reason, point, story, ultimate objective, for them being there other than to farm for isk. Players rat in a continuous loop for hours on end for isk. Just doesn't make sense to "my kind of personality". I've tried and lived in null, low, whs, hs, tried all sorts of corps from big alliances to running my own one man show. At the end of the day, repetitive meaningless content is just that.

You have found your own path and you enjoy it. That's great. The frustration for me is..how can I put this...is being addicted to something I can't play. I know, doesn't make much sense. I can't fathom it. I love the idea of Eve, I'm not afraid of it and never have been - (lost seven ventures in my first two weeks of play because I refused to stay in HS and even though I didn't know what I was doing I was never put off by ganks and outright slaughter) - and have always been willing to try new things.

You say - "you need to ask yourself what is fun and can you do that in the game" - I've done that and so far the answer is no. Fun for me when exploring, for example, is to find a burnt out freighter sending a distress signal which I pick up - I find inside a group of runaway slaves and they ask for help. Do I decide to help them? or turn them in? Either way I find myself plunged into an adventure with many twists and turns that takes me all over New Eden. Stories, lore, charismatic NPCs, factions that matter, mysteries, history, archaeology etc etc. That's why I say the game is frustrating - an incredibly beautiful game but without any (in my opinion) meaningful content.

But you're right...as it stands the game doesn't suit "my personality". The forum post is about decline in numbers - I was only proffering the idea that if CCP invested in providing for "people of my sort" - and I believe there are lots of us - then numbers may and probably would go up. But then perhaps that would mean people of "your sort" would quit. Unless both could be achieved somehow in the same game without losing the essence of Eve.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2551 - 2015-11-19 20:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Well, as said, I'm glad people enjoy the game...they have created something quite spectacular, and I can understand why you want to rush home to log on. I felt like that when first playing. When I first saw the visuals I was blown away - I actually felt as if I was in space.

I've done the things you've said - set goals, been part of a sov holding group, tinkered with fits. It's ok for a time, but this is where we differ, as said in an earlier post. I need a narrative. I don't need the continuous spawning of the same anoms in the same systems with no reason, point, story, ultimate objective, for them being there other than to farm for isk. Players rat in a continuous loop for hours on end for isk. Just doesn't make sense to "my kind of personality". I've tried and lived in null, low, whs, hs, tried all sorts of corps from big alliances to running my own one man show. At the end of the day, repetitive meaningless content is just that.


Some people don't like it when I'm blunt, but it's just who I am. I could claim being Texan as an excuse, but the reality is I'd probably be this blunt had I been born in New Hampshire or something lol.

So that being said, here it is: This game just isn't for you. I honestly wish it was, you seem smart and level headed and the game could use more of that.

You are not alone, in fact you can probably claim most of humanity. Projects (can't call it a game just yet) like Star Citizen exist because people like you exist. And that's great. What isn't so great is wasting your time, money and energy on something that just doesn't do it for you.

What you are doing in clinging to something that disappoints is no different than a person in real life being in a relationship where the love has long since died but you stay anyway (and being miserable, spending unrecoverable time on this earth being unhappy) on the unlikely off chance that things maybe might just change one day. You are definitely not alone in doing that either, there is an entire forum subculture here that does that very thing lol.

Quote:

You have found your own path and you enjoy it. That's great. The frustration for me is..how can I put this...is being addicted to something I can't play. I know, doesn't make much sense. I can't fathom it. I love the idea of Eve, I'm not afraid of it and never have been - (lost seven ventures in my first two weeks of play because I refused to stay in HS and even though I didn't know what I was doing I was never put off by ganks and outright slaughter) - and have always been willing to try new things.

You say - "you need to ask yourself what is fun and can you do that in the game" - I've done that and so far the answer is no.


There is your answer.

Quote:

Fun for me when exploring, for example, is to find a burnt out freighter sending a distress signal which I pick up - I find inside a group of runaway slaves and they ask for help. Do I decide to help them? or turn them in? Either way I find myself plunged into an adventure with many twists and turns that takes me all over New Eden. Stories, lore, charismatic NPCs, factions that matter, mysteries, history, archaeology etc etc. That's why I say the game is frustrating - an incredibly beautiful game but without any (in my opinion) meaningful content.

But you're right...as it stands the game doesn't suit "my personality". The forum post is about decline in numbers - I was only proffering the idea that if CCP invested in providing for "people of my sort" - and I believe there are lots of us - then numbers may and probably would go up. But then perhaps that would mean people of "your sort" would quit. Unless both could be achieved somehow in the same game without losing the essence of Eve.


IMO, that's not possible. Many games have tried, all have died. CCP has been flirting with it for years (a CCP exec producer once said the goal was for EVE to be easy to learn but hard to master, a nice but naive way to think imo).

I believe totally that a big part of what is happening to EVE (and I don't think it is as bad as the doomsayers think) is that people aren't reacting to it not being like other games, rather people who would have liked the EVE of old are reacting to the watered down nature of the current game. CCP unintentionally and with good intentions threw away some of the challenge that made EVE addictive. The EVE I started playing in 2007 didn't give one flip about you (and I liked that, I care about me, i don't need a video game to do that for me lol), the EVE of 2015 greats you with so much hand holding that once it stops holding your hand, you don't have a clue about what to do...until the numerous pop ups come to tell you what to to, in which case you find that being hand held is no fun (for the kinds of people who would seek out EVE in the 1st place).

Anyways, i hope for your sake you figure something out. Gaming should be fun and you aren't enjoying this one. There are others, and more coming. I enjoy Star Trek Online from time to time, totally different from EVE.
Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#2552 - 2015-11-19 22:02:27 UTC
No worries Jenn - I come from Yorkshire, England and we're pretty well known for being direct and blunt. I prefer it - no getting lost in a maze of words.

Yes, you are right - Eve in its current form is not for me or players like me. Hence sub cancellation. The thing is I forget - or I watch a Scope video (Crimson Harvest this time) and resub. But then the only person who suffers is me - and it is a small inconsequential suffering, just a few quid down the drain.

I'm not a fan of handholding either and have never promoted it. I first tried Eve in 2008 and the lack of developer input at that time didn't put me off.

I like the relationship analogy - it does feel like that.

You say most of humanity matches my outlook. I agree, and that is why I suggested CCP implement said changes. I stated in another post that we are a story-driven species, from telling tales round camp fires to modern soap operas. Most people (I would argue all) like a good story. Our language systems, the very essence of them (verbs are words of action - action = story) is based upon them. I have a few hours each evening and I usually engage with a number of stories - news, films, books, gossip. I also like games that present stories - and to keep this brief (just deleted loads of text :) ) I still believe Eve would be a better place for having them. Omir, for example. He and his cult could have been spun into an amazing tale - the finding of him, his hideout etc. Rather than repeatedly killing the same mobs over and over for sp gain (but at least it wasn't isk this time).

But I've made my point. No need to keep dragging it on. CCP from what I read are going further the other way - more toys for nullsec, citadels etc. I personally don't feel this will boost numbers, perhaps only keeping (some) vets happy. I don't think it's a good development strategy and I don't think it will increase sales of their product.

I'm not a big gamer so not too worried - may try star citizen if it ever comes out. Personally I really hope VR takes off in a big way - a full immersive gaming experience would be great (and yes, with a story! :)

Fly safe
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2553 - 2015-11-20 09:24:45 UTC
Gramps Pljugi wrote:

Google Banner ads through Adwords (viewed via Adsense by user)



Adsense is the biggest waste of money, it will show your add to people who already have the product most of the time.

How ad sense works in real life: Search for a comparison of TV's, order the TV online, the entire month after buying the TV you get adds for TV's

I still have no clue why marketing people even bother paying 1 isk for adsense bull.....

Anyhow I like playing back in 07, if we go back to those numbers its fine by me.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2554 - 2015-11-20 10:38:27 UTC
Djana Libra wrote:
Gramps Pljugi wrote:

Google Banner ads through Adwords (viewed via Adsense by user)



Adsense is the biggest waste of money, it will show your add to people who already have the product most of the time.

How ad sense works in real life: Search for a comparison of TV's, order the TV online, the entire month after buying the TV you get adds for TV's

I still have no clue why marketing people even bother paying 1 isk for adsense bull.....

Anyhow I like playing back in 07, if we go back to those numbers its fine by me.


"adsense is the biggest waste of money" you get paid every time someone clicks an advert...think you mean adwords which my companies adwords account would completely disagree with being a waste of money.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2555 - 2015-11-20 14:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Djana Libra wrote:
Gramps Pljugi wrote:

Google Banner ads through Adwords (viewed via Adsense by user)



Adsense is the biggest waste of money, it will show your add to people who already have the product most of the time.

How ad sense works in real life: Search for a comparison of TV's, order the TV online, the entire month after buying the TV you get adds for TV's

I still have no clue why marketing people even bother paying 1 isk for adsense bull.....

Anyhow I like playing back in 07, if we go back to those numbers its fine by me.


That's because they can't check whether you bought the product or don't... yet.

Also they can be very insistent... I remember being haunted by Victoria 7 adds after I opened a link to the developer's website just to check, precisely, WTF is a Victoria 7.
Rumpulstiltskin
Neverland
#2556 - 2015-11-21 09:54:03 UTC
We're getting Google Adwords in Local chat?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2557 - 2015-11-21 10:51:52 UTC
Rumpulstiltskin wrote:
We're getting Google Adwords in Local chat?


I wonder what would adwords do with the content in Jita local chat... Lol
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#2558 - 2015-11-21 15:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
The number of responses on this thread now equals 10% of the active player base!
I'd say that's representative. Wouldn't YOU?

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2559 - 2015-11-21 21:26:21 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
The number of responses on this thread now equals 10% of the active player base!
I'd say that's representative. Wouldn't YOU?

This thread is that important, huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#2560 - 2015-11-21 21:39:11 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
The number of responses on this thread now equals 10% of the active player base!
I'd say that's representative. Wouldn't YOU?
No I would not. 2500+ responses, even if they were made by 2500+ individuals (which they are most definitely not) wouldn't be 10% of the active player base. Not by a long shot.

In case the comment was meant sarcastically, sorry, my sarcasm meter is a bit shoddy at the moment.Smile

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......