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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Doddy
Excidium.
#5481 - 2015-11-06 19:32:38 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:

A few plexes?

new char starts with 500k sp, first 4.5 million of tsp has no diminishing returns so 9 TSP to get there.

next 20 mil is added at 400 k sp per TSP so another 50 TSP

59 TSP to get to the 25 million sp you dismiss, by best guess prices that is about 30 plex, not "a few"

to get to your 80 million char that is another 25 million sp at 400k/TSP, so another 62.5 TSP

plus 30 million sp at 200k sp/TSP, so another 150 TSP

So 262 TSPfor this 80 mil sp char you speak of, 131 plex

From that point on to get to a mighty 100 mil sp character would take another 400 TSP/200 plex

So yeah, like people paying 140 billion isk / $2700 dollars for an 80 mil char when they could already get the same for far, far less in the bazarr is remotely an issue. Oh noes, they get to pick the chars name and its date of birth wont match its sp, boohoohohhoo how terrible my bittervet backbone.

Dont even get me started on the idea that people are going to spend another 200 billion+ isk/ $4000 to add each 20 mil sp after that. A 300 mil char for 2.3 trillion isk/$47k dollars? wow that sounds like a great idea...... I am sure there will be scores of them flying around.

Though yeah, a simple hard cap and monthly cap and people terrified of some millionaire having more sp than them wont even have their imagination to bother them.


-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies

Quote:

That is not what i said at all. It will be way out of reach for anyone to add more than a a few mil sp in TSP. If you cant get your head around the fact that a newbie doubling their SP for 500 mil isk is in a better position than a bittervet adding o.o25% to their sp for the same 500 mil isk there is really no hope for you at all. You clearly have no understanding of how eves skill system works. 500k sp to a newbie unlocks whole new avenues of gameplay, 50k sp to a bittervet knocks 1 measley day off of whatever level 5 skill they have training.


- Agreed - The system as it stands only gives a 0.025% increase to a Vets skils and as such is no use to them -- why do you keep saying its what vets want


Where did i ever say its what Vets want? The only mention I have made of vets using it is to get rid of sp, maybe give them to friends..... You really are losing track....
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5482 - 2015-11-06 19:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee wrote:

- Agreed - The system as it stands only gives a 0.025% increase to a Vets skils and as such is no use to them -- why do you keep saying its what vets want

Iowa Banshee wrote:
-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies

Why do you asking? We all know that socratic method is very powerful tool for argueing but please use it properly.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5483 - 2015-11-06 20:11:54 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

- Agreed - The system as it stands only gives a 0.025% increase to a Vets skils and as such is no use to them -- why do you keep saying its what vets want

Iowa Banshee wrote:
-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies

Why do you asking? We all know that socratic method is very powerful tool for argueing but please use it properly.



I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%





" An argument is a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition. Contradiction is just the automatic gain-saying of anything the other person says." Monty Python


General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5484 - 2015-11-06 20:31:12 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

True.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%

I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5485 - 2015-11-06 20:46:53 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

True.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%

I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.

For the long list of reasons found in this thread I am against selling/transferring/destroying SP - I believe that SP is and has always been tied to the CCP subscription financial model.

That being said -
I think a re-mapping-SP tool made like the re-sculpture item satisfies all the needs of people wanting to reassign SP

Boosters to increase your learning rate still give you the wanted extra SP and satisfies people who object because of the Subscription/Time/SP model ( Diminishing returns for higher SP players)

I don't think there is anything mentioned in this thread that cannot be addressed with these 2 items
Doddy
Excidium.
#5486 - 2015-11-06 21:06:49 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

True.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%

I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.

For the long list of reasons found in this thread I am against selling/transferring/destroying SP - I believe that SP is and has always been tied to the CCP subscription financial model.

That being said -
I think a re-mapping-SP tool made like the re-sculpture item satisfies all the needs of people wanting to reassign SP

Boosters to increase your learning rate still give you the wanted extra SP and satisfies people who object because of the Subscription/Time/SP model ( Diminishing returns for higher SP players)

I don't think there is anything mentioned in this thread that cannot be addressed with these 2 items



What you suggest is fair enough, but people can already transfer sp between players in the bazar, why that is not against the "subscription financial model" but transferring sp between characters is? I mean the characters don't have the subs, the players do. So you basically want to create two methods instead of one, and leave the trade of SP which is already happening alone in all its out of game, can only do it if you go to the forums, clumsy third method? Three mechanics instead of one, one of which is out of game? Doesn't seem very rational?
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5487 - 2015-11-06 21:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Don ZOLA
Don ZOLA wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

And patch bringing this will be different from others since game fundamental is going to be changed. So it is not just if someone likes ship, pos, missions, whatever changes. This is the biggest change ever as it is change in CCP`s relations to its customers.

Yeap, it's crucial changing. Like inventing prostetic limbs(remember your sports metaphor about prestige)... Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one?


Totally wrong analogy since people with prosthetic limbs are not allowed to compete in regular competitions, they have their own. So it is obviously right.


Let me refresh your memory. You have implied that all sportsman, regardless of handicap compete / should compete together. Which is not true as they have their own separated competitions.

edit: So with that analogy, we should have separate servers :)

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know

General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5488 - 2015-11-06 21:15:06 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

True.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%

I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.

For the long list of reasons found in this thread I am against selling/transferring/destroying SP - I believe that SP is and has always been tied to the CCP subscription financial model.

That being said -
I think a re-mapping-SP tool made like the re-sculpture item satisfies all the needs of people wanting to reassign SP

Boosters to increase your learning rate still give you the wanted extra SP and satisfies people who object because of the Subscription/Time/SP model ( Diminishing returns for higher SP players)

I don't think there is anything mentioned in this thread that cannot be addressed with these 2 items

I can tell you that it won't help me much because I have low SP(because I'm noob) and relocating won't speed up progress at my plan. Furthermore there is a group of people who talked that consequences of skill choises won't be matter anymore if TSP will be implemented. So you get it worse with re-mapping-SP tool.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5489 - 2015-11-06 21:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Don ZOLA wrote:

Let me refresh your memory. You have implied that all sportsman, regardless of handicap compete / should compete together. Which is not true as they have their own separated competitions.

Nope, I just asked you
Quote:
Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one?

Anyway my point is they should have separate top tables(API stats) thats all.

Don ZOLA wrote:

edit: So with that analogy, we should have separate servers :)

Hulk Smash!

P.S. Funny thing is that outsiders(disabled people) terrifying regular sportsmans because sportsmans could be outcompeted by disabled one. Disabled is not so disabled ...
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5490 - 2015-11-06 22:00:00 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

Let me refresh your memory. You have implied that all sportsman, regardless of handicap compete / should compete together. Which is not true as they have their own separated competitions.

Nope, I just asked you
Quote:
Is it right thing to disqualify person from challenge who suffered from loosing limb but now he has prostetic one?

Anyway my point is they should have separate top tables(API stats) thats all.

Don ZOLA wrote:

edit: So with that analogy, we should have separate servers :)

Hulk Smash!

P.S. Funny thing is that outsiders(disabled people) terrifying regular sportsmans because sportsmans could be outcompeted by disabled one. Disabled is not so disabled ...


But they are disqualified. That was my point :)


Regarding API, as I said it could be done that injected SP does not calculate in total SP. Still that would cover only one of the concerns, more important ones are still there.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know

Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5491 - 2015-11-06 22:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I am asking - because every time someone posts he makes a counterpoint that looks valid on its own but contradicts something already used as a counterpoint - You cant argue the sames thing is both good and bad and gainsaying is just a form of Trolling

True.
Iowa Banshee wrote:

Its good for a newbie they can get SP // Its bad for a Newbie they can't get SP - too expensive
Its good for vets to use unwanted skills // its bad for vets to use unwanted skills - is only at .025%

I can say that this change will be good for me(as a noob). Price is unknown varible but we could guess. I don't really bother about vets because they have experience, isks and SP. They should work out. Vets could not only use unwanted skills again but sell them.

For the long list of reasons found in this thread I am against selling/transferring/destroying SP - I believe that SP is and has always been tied to the CCP subscription financial model.

That being said -
I think a re-mapping-SP tool made like the re-sculpture item satisfies all the needs of people wanting to reassign SP

Boosters to increase your learning rate still give you the wanted extra SP and satisfies people who object because of the Subscription/Time/SP model ( Diminishing returns for higher SP players)

I don't think there is anything mentioned in this thread that cannot be addressed with these 2 items



What you suggest is fair enough, but people can already transfer sp between players in the bazar, why that is not against the "subscription financial model" but transferring sp between characters is? I mean the characters don't have the subs, the players do. So you basically want to create two methods instead of one, and leave the trade of SP which is already happening alone in all its out of game, can only do it if you go to the forums, clumsy third method? Three mechanics instead of one, one of which is out of game? Doesn't seem very rational?


You cannot trade SP at the Bazaar you can only trade characters

I will try to explain the subscription financial model from a Subscribers point of view - Stay with me I did said "try" and it has some difficult concepts

I pay about $12 a month to subscribe to eve.

Everything I have in game - Plex, Aur, ships, towers, ISK what ever is worth $12 - but - only if I have a plex gained in game to replace that months subscription - Once I use that plex everything I have in game is of no value for the remainder of the month because it cannot be spent.

When duel training arrived - The worth of my in game assets (if I have enough to liquidate to use plex to duel train & Plex) became $36 because that is the maximum of eve assets I can spend in RL
If I do not have enough assets to duel train and have buy a Plex to do so I have just entered into a pay to win transaction

With SP trading the number of pay2win transactions is not 3 ( 1 plex to sub 2 plex to duel train) but unlimited.
This will put EVE firmly into the Pay to Win category
Doddy
Excidium.
#5492 - 2015-11-06 23:30:44 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:


You cannot trade SP at the Bazaar you can only trade characters

I will try to explain the subscription financial model from a Subscribers point of view - Stay with me I did said "try" and it has some difficult concepts

I pay about $12 a month to subscribe to eve.

Everything I have in game - Plex, Aur, ships, towers, ISK what ever is worth $12 - but - only if I have a plex gained in game to replace that months subscription - Once I use that plex everything I have in game is of no value for the remainder of the month because it cannot be spent.

When duel training arrived - The worth of my in game assets (if I have enough to liquidate to use plex to duel train & Plex) became $36 because that is the maximum of eve assets I can spend in RL
If I do not have enough assets to duel train and have buy a Plex to do so I have just entered into a pay to win transaction

With SP trading the number of pay2win transactions is not 3 ( 1 plex to sub 2 plex to duel train) but unlimited.
This will put EVE firmly into the Pay to Win category



A character is just a container of sp, you cannot have sp on your account without it being on a character, and if you trade the character the sp goes with it. Saying its not trading sp is like saying, "no, you didn't buy honey you bought a jar,". The only other thing traded with a character is standing/sec status and trades done on that basis are niche, plus can already be bought to a great extent with isk.

Why is everything you have in game worth $12? That is like saying you paid $100 to get your car out the impound so your car is worth $100. Or you paid $100 to rent a flat so the contents of the flat are worth $100. Just because you lose access to an asset does not mean it ceases to exist, nor does it mean the asset is worth however much you paid to regain access to it. You pay $12 for access to ccps game with 1 characters training time. You can pay another $12 for another characters training time, whether you do this through dual character training or start a new account and get a second access to the game is up to you. Your in game assets (including your character) are actually "worth" however many plex you could trade them for assuming a) you want to continue playing the game and would otherwise have paid in cash, b) somebody is willing to buy plex to trade for your assets and c) CCP allows the plex trade to occur. If any of these three things are not true your in game assets are worth nothing. Whether you sub or not, have dual char training active or use TSP make no difference to this whatsoever. Somebody using a TSP can add to the value of their assets with rl money, but so can anybody cashing plex.

So you can already sub as many accounts as you want, earning as much sp as you want. The more accounts you pay for the more SP CCP rewards you with. You are saying everyone with more than one account is P2W? Well yes, its been here since eve started. Having sp on a different account is almost always better than having more sp one 1 account thanks to the diminishing returns skill system so TSP with yet more diminishing returns are total small fry compared to this "P2W" which already exists.

The guy spending his rl money to pay for multiple accounts is gaining far more than somebody using the same money for TSPs, at a far smaller cost.

However since SP is not lost with access to the game, indeed is never lost, it is direct pay to win even with 1 char on 1 account. People who have paid more have a greater advantage. Thankfully eves skill system works against this, but it still an issue. Whoever has paid the sub the longest will have the pay to win advantage in some area of the game. Thankfully eve is varied enough that it rarely matters, but you are kidding yourself if you think its not there.

People crying because that guy might get 50k more sp than them with his rl cash are conveniently forgettingthat they themselves already have millions of sp more than some guy starting tomorrow because of their own rl cash. Total hypocrisy.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5493 - 2015-11-07 02:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:


You cannot trade SP at the Bazaar you can only trade characters

I will try to explain the subscription financial model from a Subscribers point of view - Stay with me I did said "try" and it has some difficult concepts

I pay about $12 a month to subscribe to eve.

Everything I have in game - Plex, Aur, ships, towers, ISK what ever is worth $12 - but - only if I have a plex gained in game to replace that months subscription - Once I use that plex everything I have in game is of no value for the remainder of the month because it cannot be spent.

When duel training arrived - The worth of my in game assets (if I have enough to liquidate to use plex to duel train & Plex) became $36 because that is the maximum of eve assets I can spend in RL
If I do not have enough assets to duel train and have buy a Plex to do so I have just entered into a pay to win transaction

With SP trading the number of pay2win transactions is not 3 ( 1 plex to sub 2 plex to duel train) but unlimited.
This will put EVE firmly into the Pay to Win category



A character is just a container of sp, you cannot have sp on your account without it being on a character, and if you trade the character the sp goes with it. Saying its not trading sp is like saying, "no, you didn't buy honey you bought a jar,". The only other thing traded with a character is standing/sec status and trades done on that basis are niche, plus can already be bought to a great extent with isk.

Why is everything you have in game worth $12? That is like saying you paid $100 to get your car out the impound so your car is worth $100. Or you paid $100 to rent a flat so the contents of the flat are worth $100. Just because you lose access to an asset does not mean it ceases to exist, nor does it mean the asset is worth however much you paid to regain access to it. You pay $12 for access to ccps game with 1 characters training time. You can pay another $12 for another characters training time, whether you do this through dual character training or start a new account and get a second access to the game is up to you. Your in game assets (including your character) are actually "worth" however many plex you could trade them for assuming a) you want to continue playing the game and would otherwise have paid in cash, b) somebody is willing to buy plex to trade for your assets and c) CCP allows the plex trade to occur. If any of these three things are not true your in game assets are worth nothing. Whether you sub or not, have dual char training active or use TSP make no difference to this whatsoever. Somebody using a TSP can add to the value of their assets with rl money, but so can anybody cashing plex.

So you can already sub as many accounts as you want, earning as much sp as you want. The more accounts you pay for the more SP CCP rewards you with. You are saying everyone with more than one account is P2W? Well yes, its been here since eve started. Having sp on a different account is almost always better than having more sp one 1 account thanks to the diminishing returns skill system so TSP with yet more diminishing returns are total small fry compared to this "P2W" which already exists.

The guy spending his rl money to pay for multiple accounts is gaining far more than somebody using the same money for TSPs, at a far smaller cost.

However since SP is not lost with access to the game, indeed is never lost, it is direct pay to win even with 1 char on 1 account. People who have paid more have a greater advantage. Thankfully eves skill system works against this, but it still an issue. Whoever has paid the sub the longest will have the pay to win advantage in some area of the game. Thankfully eve is varied enough that it rarely matters, but you are kidding yourself if you think its not there.

People crying because that guy might get 50k more sp than them with his rl cash are conveniently forgettingthat they themselves already have millions of sp more than some guy starting tomorrow because of their own rl cash. Total hypocrisy.


Once again - you cannot buy SP at the Bazaar - Only a Character that has skill points (using your analogy - you bought a jar of honey but cannot buy a spoonful to add to your jar)

OK - Financial models are a bit of a hard subject - Try to think of it like this

You rent an island and once a month a boat docks to sell you a box of candy for $12 good news is if you buy the box of candy you don't have to pay rent. So even if you have $1,000 in a suitcase its still only worth $12 a month to you because that's all you can spend.

2 friends wash up (duel training) and when the boat docks only get to buy 2 extra boxes of candy - As long as you have money your friends will get fat n but because you can only spend $36 the contents of the suitcase is still only worth that much.

The boat man then says I will sell you as many boxes of candy (SP for Sale/Trade) per month as you can afford. so you spend all the money in your suitcase and get really fat

The prize for being the fattest is you get to drink Champaign and sleep with anyone in world you want every night.
The island next door has a suitcase with $1,000,000,000 but they still only pay$12 rent


TSP allows for UNLIMITED pay to win transactions - before the maximum I could spend (per account) to gain advantage over other players was $36 with this I can pay as much as I want -
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5494 - 2015-11-07 08:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Doddy your concept of subs equaling skill points and everything you say would be correct if CCP allowed you to sell your character anywhere for real life currency - but they don't.

Your subs only equal time, How much time you can invest in actually playing in those 30 days is irrelevant. You don't own anything in the game from the name through skill points to the titan you maybe flying.

Think of it like going on vacation, car hire / lodge in aspen. You hire the car (Subs) going to take you 3 days to drive there (the ship you want to fly / your goal) You arrive and its holiday time ( the reward / your now flying it).

At the end of it you don't own the car or the lodge you used, you have the memory's of it ( Time ) but nothing else.

It's exactly the same for the bazaar, all you have to sell is your time investment, CCP own everything your just being allowed to move their property from A to B at a set price (Plex) and being compensated for your time investment with Isk.

This is why the selling of skill points goes against what CCP stated :

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05

Until now every single thing in game is about time invested, This corrupts the whole philosophy of that principle.

There are so many ways you could improve the game to make it new player friendly without dumbing it down.

Have a good character creation, with templates 5 to 7 mill sp on first slot of account. Have a good investment of core skills in it to.
Remove attribs, have it so whatever skill you train has 3000 sp / per hr - removes the confusion to new players, no need for optimized training over months at a time.

Neural implants - for boosting skillpoint per hour BPC for aurum character created

Neural harmonizer token - beta gives 8% to 10% / advanced 12% to 15% of total skillpoints. e.g. 50m character on an advanced token would able to re-assign 6 to 7.5 mill skillpoints - BPC for aurum character created - XX time delay on next use

Have the same AI for burner missions tweeked so that starter characters can engage in proper PVP type lessons and get burned with freebie ships/fits so they understand what it really is going to be like.

Remove co-dependencies on ships and weapons types with the age of the game now if someone wants to be a battleship or even something like an oracle pilot - why the need for small / medium / large same with frigate/destroyer/cruiser/ battle cruiser - Restrictions still need applying on jumping from sub capital - capital class ships though.

The whole game doesn't have to be destroyed to still be innovative and engaging.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”

General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5495 - 2015-11-07 12:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:

There are so many ways you could improve the game to make it new player friendly .

You are so friendly and kind person that I can't express my feelings...
Levi Belvar wrote:
This corrupts the whole philosophy of that principle.

Whole philosophy... from one "principle". Hellmar is not the god, he is just a human who could be wrong or just changed his mind.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#5496 - 2015-11-07 15:59:40 UTC
This exploration is really great stuff.

I think it took too long and the can exploded.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

BirdStrike
Doomheim
#5497 - 2015-11-07 22:06:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
This exploration is really great stuff.

I think it took too long and the can exploded.


Thanks for sharing.
Dosperado
Scary Wormholer's
#5498 - 2015-11-08 11:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dosperado
Please please delete this Dev blog asap and all your ideas with it.

If you are ever going to implement that crap I am going to put my 265mil SP char directly into BIOMASS!!

So sad that EvE is constantly drifting into the wrong direction....

EVE Veteran

Lieu Thiesant
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5499 - 2015-11-08 19:31:20 UTC
When will this Skills Trading function become available?
(On the Tranquility server that is, as if I was talking about the other test server, not.)
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#5500 - 2015-11-08 21:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Levi Belvar wrote:
(...)

This is why the selling of skill points goes against what CCP stated :

"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05

Until now every single thing in game is about time invested, This corrupts the whole philosophy of that principle.

(...)


Probably CCP is planning to shift from an access monetization model to an activity monetization model.

When players do more things ingame than they log in, either you improve how many players log in or you monetize what they do.

And frankly, CCP's chances to improve subscriptions are scarce. They don't have any plans to call in new players with some groundbreaking feature that could enable them to start from zero and in equal terms to the veteran players. Even the new content will be added to the end of endgame content, requiring alliances/structures/nullsec/ PvP and what the hell to as much as consider moving into that new space, whatever it is. Also, EVE has been cutting through the same niche for 12 years.

And all in all since CCP failed so horribly to understand that the average subscriber used to be a highsec PvEr, and those players are just leaving the game, CCP as a company don't have many options.

They rely on access monetization, but they're running out of customers willing to access the game for a fee.

They also have added customization monetization, but that is related to how many people play the game. Less players mean less need to one-time sales of cosmetic items.

So what's left to sell and monetize?

Ingame activity. The things you do, which are effectively locked behind a time-controled skillpoint barrier. You need to pay access for T game time in order to have the skills to fly that ship or use that module.

But what if you can just buy those skills? Not from a void, but from the existing 12 years long pool, to protect the skillpoint market, at least initially.

Then, what CCP does is to charge you for what you do. Activity monetization.

And once they're charging players for something they do (fly a ship for money rather than time), sky is the limit. They can charge players for absolutely anything locked behind the skillpoint barrier.

For an instance, CCP a may charge them for any skillpoints, and give them skillpoints for free if they pay a subscription ("Premium" skillpoints).

Thus there is no need to charge them for access. That, of course, calls in every player interested in EVE but not interested in paying months of subscription to "fly the cool stuff".

Skillpoints still would be a barrier. And players still could grind their way to lift it for time (grind ISK, buy skillpoints).

To us the old farts, it is very simple.

Either we stick with EVE F2P or give up all we did for those subscriptions and the effort behind them. The money we paid to CCP? Thanks for it. Now we can sell the SP to lift the ISK access barrier, if that bothers us much.

CCP is a company. They've painted themselves in a corner and the only way out is a "freemium" model with skillpoints being the bonus for subscription and the barrier to limit what a player can achieve by paying.

Then numbers will rise up, old players will get lots of PvP targets and customization monetization also increases when whales (there's always whales in F2P) feel they need to fly every ship and SKIN it in every possible way. That's in the thousands of dollars even with the current stock of the NES.


So now that CCP is moving in that direction, what are you going to do when EVE goes Free to Play, for the future well of CCP?


I... I think I will keep playing the game. Having lots of people around could prove interesting. Yes, some will be the usual freetoplayaidscancerkids. But some will stick longer and love this old wh0re for what she is, no matter how you pay her services.

(But oh I will feel SO stupid about all those thousands of euros in subscriptions...)Ugh