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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5461 - 2015-11-06 05:30:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added

A well focused 50mill SP will match 80mill SP in earning potential (either is more than enough to do any isk earning activity). I certainly am not making 8x what I was then, I doubt most people are that didn't find something entirely different and more lucrative to do, likely largely decoupled from their prior SP investment as well.

That said I think it should actually cap at some point to where no further SP can be added.



Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5462 - 2015-11-06 05:40:37 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5463 - 2015-11-06 06:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.



Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon
Verminah Helbain
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#5464 - 2015-11-06 07:38:36 UTC
ISD Decoy wrote:
I have removed some troll replies and those quoting them.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

Shouldnt you be removing the OP as well if your removing troll posts in here?
Maebure 420
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5465 - 2015-11-06 08:15:20 UTC
Holy bob the amount of bitter-vet salt in this thread is unbelievable. I for one support his new paradigm CCP, I don't think this is a bad idea at all. Maybe re-think the diminishing returns a bit. Overall good job.
Verminah Helbain
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#5466 - 2015-11-06 08:30:11 UTC
Maebure 420 wrote:
Holy bob the amount of bitter-vet salt in this thread is unbelievable. I for one support his new paradigm CCP, I don't think this is a bad idea at all. Maybe re-think the diminishing returns a bit. Overall good job.

Yeah, if they are 5x as hard i might mellow a bit in this regard.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5467 - 2015-11-06 09:01:53 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?

This is my last one tonight, go back to time and effort for sense of acheivement, reward = longevity
instant gratification = short life span.


But no time and effort goes into gaining sp in eve, and that is the only thing being effected. Unless you are seriously OCD with the training queue you spend a few minutes a year gaining sp in eve, the rest is happening without you. As for effort the only effort involved is any earned isk you spend on implants or skillbooks, both of which can currently be bought for rl cash via plex already, TSP would be no different than those.

And who plays eve for the acheivement of learning a skill anyway? I have never seen a skill notification pop and think "ah, thats me done enough for tonight, didn't i do well earning that skill. I will need to come back tomorrow and play some more and earn myself another skill".

Goodnight

Twisting things to suit your point serves no purpose. What has come to light over this is you view everything you do in EvE as a money transaction like linking skill points to your subs, To me i pay my subs to be able to play for the next 30 days ( Just a time frame not its cost me 33p to play today) Maybe this is the mindset of people who used to GTC and now plex there accounts instead of just enjoying the game, the grind instills an overwhelming factor for things to be monetized and not enjoyed as much.

It doesn't matter if your starting a fresh character or advancing in the game i use the skill system to set my goals. If i want one toon flying marauders everything will get set in motion i don't self flagellate over each skill that completes but when you can actually sit in the hull with it fully fitted to your specification you've achieved your goal. The reward come from kicking ass in said new fitted ship. I just view my actions by time, the more i invest the more i gain. Very sad when even in a virtual world you still reduce your actions to a real life concept.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5468 - 2015-11-06 10:52:04 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:


You are suggesting CCP should have separate server for those who want this new feature and other which speed up their development? Could not agree more :)


We talking about prestige, right? Just let them to separate regular SP from injected one.
CCP Terminus wrote:

there may be a way to track SP gained 'naturally' versus SP gained from using unallocated skillpoints.


Prestige is just one of concerns. And about solution for it - I prefer idea of separate servers. Or injected SP not being counted in total SP. :)

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5469 - 2015-11-06 12:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.



Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon

Did you thought about where plexes go? Thanks to this man because he will pay for someone who can't afford PLEX with rl money.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5470 - 2015-11-06 14:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

Its like a lvl1 character in wow asking why he cant be instant 100 because i couldnt be arsed to try it until now, Its an impossible ask to try and balance something that already has over a decade of history.


That is nonsense, progression in wow is based on"time and effort" as you put it. Progression in eve is based on number of subs paid (directly or indirectly through plex). What balance is involved? None whatsoever. And a 5 million sp eve char is not the same as a level 100 wow char so why even compare the two?


You still pay a subcription to wow, unless you've found a blizzard server thats now f2p, Both game models are sub based but with EvE you still skill up if you interact or not wow you dont - So a skillpoint system has its benefits. I didnt compare a lvl100 character to a 5m skillpoint character. There is nothing direct or indirect with my subscription either i pay by card as previously pointed out - i dont grind or expect to play for free. I come to have a fun and a laugh not at the expense of others.

So you do not agree with the following statement then :

Basically you put together a combination of ship/modules/rigs/implants and most importantly your skills to create a fit that does what you want in your style.

Does that not fit perfect for describing a goal.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5471 - 2015-11-06 17:08:53 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?

This is my last one tonight, go back to time and effort for sense of acheivement, reward = longevity
instant gratification = short life span.


But no time and effort goes into gaining sp in eve, and that is the only thing being effected. Unless you are seriously OCD with the training queue you spend a few minutes a year gaining sp in eve, the rest is happening without you. As for effort the only effort involved is any earned isk you spend on implants or skillbooks, both of which can currently be bought for rl cash via plex already, TSP would be no different than those.

And who plays eve for the acheivement of learning a skill anyway? I have never seen a skill notification pop and think "ah, thats me done enough for tonight, didn't i do well earning that skill. I will need to come back tomorrow and play some more and earn myself another skill".

Goodnight

Twisting things to suit your point serves no purpose. What has come to light over this is you view everything you do in EvE as a money transaction like linking skill points to your subs, To me i pay my subs to be able to play for the next 30 days ( Just a time frame not its cost me 33p to play today) Maybe this is the mindset of people who used to GTC and now plex there accounts instead of just enjoying the game, the grind instills an overwhelming factor for things to be monetized and not enjoyed as much.

It doesn't matter if your starting a fresh character or advancing in the game i use the skill system to set my goals. If i want one toon flying marauders everything will get set in motion i don't self flagellate over each skill that completes but when you can actually sit in the hull with it fully fitted to your specification you've achieved your goal. The reward come from kicking ass in said new fitted ship. I just view my actions by time, the more i invest the more i gain. Very sad when even in a virtual world you still reduce your actions to a real life concept.


There is no twisting here man, you are just refusing to accept the fundamental basis of eves training system. However well or badly you play, however much time you spend playing has no effect whatsoever on your skill training. Skill training is entirely independent of game play however much you seem determined to pretend otherwise. The whole point of the game is to invest time and achieve goals, its great you continue to do that. But why do you feel the need to pretend that is related to the training of skills? That is what is sad, that you feel the need to connect your in game enjoyment to the sp you have bought (whether directly or indirectly), its messed up. It is you who are connecting the two not me, for me they are two entirely unrelated concepts. I put game play in and i get satisfaction out. Completely unrelated Is me gaining sp for the time my sub runs. Other than buying a few implants and skill books none of my skill progression has come from my work, why would i feel satisfaction for it?

If i sit in a new ship i have worked towards i will feel plenty of satisfaction at the work i have done to earn the isk to buy it and its fitting. Why would I feel satisfaction about the skills to fly it i have bought with rl money? I mean people who only play by plex can get a kick out of it since they are working for thier sp as well but that is still a minority of players for a minority of the time eve has existed. And why would such people grudge others paying for sp which they themselves can't afford when it is already happening every month in the form of the subscription? There will only be the abilty for people to plex so long as other people are willing to pay for SP.

If how much time and effort you put into eve had any impact on sp creation we would not be having this conversation. I would be against TSPs, hell i would even be against the character bazarr. But it doesn't, all that goes into skill training is money.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5472 - 2015-11-06 17:15:27 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

Its like a lvl1 character in wow asking why he cant be instant 100 because i couldnt be arsed to try it until now, Its an impossible ask to try and balance something that already has over a decade of history.


That is nonsense, progression in wow is based on"time and effort" as you put it. Progression in eve is based on number of subs paid (directly or indirectly through plex). What balance is involved? None whatsoever. And a 5 million sp eve char is not the same as a level 100 wow char so why even compare the two?


You still pay a subcription to wow, unless you've found a blizzard server thats now f2p, Both game models are sub based but with EvE you still skill up if you interact or not wow you dont - So a skillpoint system has its benefits. I didnt compare a lvl100 character to a 5m skillpoint character. There is nothing direct or indirect with my subscription either i pay by card as previously pointed out - i dont grind or expect to play for free. I come to have a fun and a laugh not at the expense of others.

So you do not agree with the following statement then :

Basically you put together a combination of ship/modules/rigs/implants and most importantly your skills to create a fit that does what you want in your style.

Does that not fit perfect for describing a goal.


Again you conflate "playing" with "progressing". You are somehow, with a straight face i might add, saying that your skill comes from your "time and affort", yet at the same time point out how in eve you skill up regardless of what you do. These two stances are mutually exclusive, they cannot both be true and why everything you say is illogical.

And you did compare a 5 million sp eve char with a level 100 WoW char. i said why shouldn't someone be able to give thier friend they brought to game 5 mil sp to fly with them and you quoted me and said:

"Its like a lvl1 character in wow asking why he cant be instant 100 because i couldnt be arsed to try it until now"

So what exactly were you trying to say?
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5473 - 2015-11-06 17:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Reading back through this mega-post several likes & dislikes keep reappearing - Two points of concern dominate:

(1) I want to undo my skill training mistakes VS You made the mistakes live with them.

Create a Re-Map-SP item that can be used the same way as the character redesign

It gives CCP a nice little cash earner and because you can do neural remaps already its not a break from game design. You get to remap and reallocate (or not ) all of the available SP & if you want sell a character at the bazaar with points ready for allocation


(2) The creation & destruction of Skill Points or SP for sale.

This is the biggest bone of contention. With comments about P2W, subs for SP advantages for newbies etc. etc - but If you have a remap SP in place you need only worry about SP gain. With so many opposed to the appearance of it being p2w or buying SP that couldn't have be obtained with the subs/time/ SP paradigm.
Obtaining more SP without buying them whole satisfied nearly all of these concerns because its all about the rate of SP gain which is part of the game already.

Why not introduce a range of boosters that have diminishing returns dependent on your existing number of SP - This has the added bonus of expanding the booster industry.


There are too many here that are willing to say NO do this way because I thinks it will only work the other way - How about working on a little compromise.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5474 - 2015-11-06 17:27:09 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added

A well focused 50mill SP will match 80mill SP in earning potential (either is more than enough to do any isk earning activity). I certainly am not making 8x what I was then, I doubt most people are that didn't find something entirely different and more lucrative to do, likely largely decoupled from their prior SP investment as well.

That said I think it should actually cap at some point to where no further SP can be added.



Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants


Its not "much easier" to make isk with an 80 mil sp toon than a 25 mil toon. You are completely making that up. The 80 mil toon might be able to do it in different ways the 25 mil toon can't but what method of making isk will a 25 mil toon be heavily outcompeted by an 80 mil toon? Given for sub caps only 30 mil or so sp is actually relevant at any given time and diminishing returns makes that 5 million sp negligible it isn't the case in pve. In high end industry it might mean running one less job at a time, maybe a 5% cut in productivity?

Past the initial basic skill training (10mil?) all the sp players gain is either put into being able to do different things, or chasing tiny improvements in eficiency. If you are on of those people who thinks some lame level 5 skill which gives a 2% bonus to some irrelevant stat makes things "way easier" for anyone there is really no hope for you.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5475 - 2015-11-06 17:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.



Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon


A few plexes?

new char starts with 500k sp, first 4.5 million of tsp has no diminishing returns so 9 TSP to get there.

next 20 mil is added at 400 k sp per TSP so another 50 TSP

59 TSP to get to the 25 million sp you dismiss, by best guess prices that is about 30 plex, not "a few"

to get to your 80 million char that is another 25 million sp at 400k/TSP, so another 62.5 TSP

plus 30 million sp at 200k sp/TSP, so another 150 TSP

So 262 TSPfor this 80 mil sp char you speak of, 131 plex

From that point on to get to a mighty 100 mil sp character would take another 400 TSP/200 plex

So yeah, like people paying 140 billion isk / $2700 dollars for an 80 mil char when they could already get the same for far, far less in the bazarr is remotely an issue. Oh noes, they get to pick the chars name and its date of birth wont match its sp, boohoohohhoo how terrible my bittervet backbone.

Dont even get me started on the idea that people are going to spend another 200 billion+ isk/ $4000 to add each 20 mil sp after that. A 300 mil char for 2.3 trillion isk/$47k dollars? wow that sounds like a great idea...... I am sure there will be scores of them flying around.

Though yeah, a simple hard cap and monthly cap and people terrified of some millionaire having more sp than them wont even have their imagination to bother them.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5476 - 2015-11-06 17:59:05 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added

A well focused 50mill SP will match 80mill SP in earning potential (either is more than enough to do any isk earning activity). I certainly am not making 8x what I was then, I doubt most people are that didn't find something entirely different and more lucrative to do, likely largely decoupled from their prior SP investment as well.

That said I think it should actually cap at some point to where no further SP can be added.



Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants


Its not "much easier" to make isk with an 80 mil sp toon than a 25 mil toon. You are completely making that up. The 80 mil toon might be able to do it in different ways the 25 mil toon can't but what method of making isk will a 25 mil toon be heavily outcompeted by an 80 mil toon? Given for sub caps only 30 mil or so sp is actually relevant at any given time and diminishing returns makes that 5 million sp negligible it isn't the case in pve. In high end industry it might mean running one less job at a time, maybe a 5% cut in productivity?

Past the initial basic skill training (10mil?) all the sp players gain is either put into being able to do different things, or chasing tiny improvements in eficiency. If you are on of those people who thinks some lame level 5 skill which gives a 2% bonus to some irrelevant stat makes things "way easier" for anyone there is really no hope for you.


My 24mill SP toon in a pimped out rattlesnake can solo nealy all the sites in a C3
Combat Sigs drop - 100-150 million per hours work

I cannot solo anything in a C5 but as a 12 year old player I'm pretty sure you can
Combat sigs 200 - 400 million per hour

Let me see ... is it easier active-ratting in a C3 for 100-150 mill per hour or watching Netflix while passive drone ratting in a C5 for upto 4 times that.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=410322 most of the posters here seem to think the numbers are accurate - someone else's post so - Completely NOT made up
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5477 - 2015-11-06 18:01:55 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.



Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon


A few plexes?

new char starts with 500k sp, first 4.5 million of tsp has no diminishing returns so 9 TSP to get there.

next 20 mil is added at 400 k sp per TSP so another 50 TSP

59 TSP to get to the 25 million sp you dismiss, by best guess prices that is about 30 plex, not "a few"

to get to your 80 million char that is another 25 million sp at 400k/TSP, so another 62.5 TSP

plus 30 million sp at 200k sp/TSP, so another 150 TSP

So 262 TSPfor this 80 mil sp char you speak of, 131 plex

From that point on to get to a mighty 100 mil sp character would take another 400 TSP/200 plex

So yeah, like people paying 140 billion isk / $2700 dollars for an 80 mil char when they could already get the same for far, far less in the bazarr is remotely an issue. Oh noes, they get to pick the chars name and its date of birth wont match its sp, boohoohohhoo how terrible my bittervet backbone.

Dont even get me started on the idea that people are going to spend another 200 billion+ isk/ $4000 to add each 20 mil sp after that. A 300 mil char for 2.3 trillion isk/$47k dollars? wow that sounds like a great idea...... I am sure there will be scores of them flying around.

Though yeah, a simple hard cap and monthly cap and people terrified of some millionaire having more sp than them wont even have their imagination to bother them.


-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies
Doddy
Excidium.
#5478 - 2015-11-06 19:21:28 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants
I'd say challenge accepted, as building an incursion character with 25mill SP is simple enough, but since that's a year of training to put into proof I'll not be doing that.

Also someone would still probably put those earnings to shame with a brand new market toon anyways.



Soon you will be able throw in a few plexes - and - wow an instant incursion toon


A few plexes?

new char starts with 500k sp, first 4.5 million of tsp has no diminishing returns so 9 TSP to get there.

next 20 mil is added at 400 k sp per TSP so another 50 TSP

59 TSP to get to the 25 million sp you dismiss, by best guess prices that is about 30 plex, not "a few"

to get to your 80 million char that is another 25 million sp at 400k/TSP, so another 62.5 TSP

plus 30 million sp at 200k sp/TSP, so another 150 TSP

So 262 TSPfor this 80 mil sp char you speak of, 131 plex

From that point on to get to a mighty 100 mil sp character would take another 400 TSP/200 plex

So yeah, like people paying 140 billion isk / $2700 dollars for an 80 mil char when they could already get the same for far, far less in the bazarr is remotely an issue. Oh noes, they get to pick the chars name and its date of birth wont match its sp, boohoohohhoo how terrible my bittervet backbone.

Dont even get me started on the idea that people are going to spend another 200 billion+ isk/ $4000 to add each 20 mil sp after that. A 300 mil char for 2.3 trillion isk/$47k dollars? wow that sounds like a great idea...... I am sure there will be scores of them flying around.

Though yeah, a simple hard cap and monthly cap and people terrified of some millionaire having more sp than them wont even have their imagination to bother them.


-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies


That is not what i said at all. It will be way out of reach for anyone to add more than a a few mil sp in TSP. If you cant get your head around the fact that a newbie doubling their SP for 500 mil isk is in a better position than a bittervet adding o.o25% to their sp for the same 500 mil isk there is really no hope for you at all. You clearly have no understanding of how eves skill system works. 500k sp to a newbie unlocks whole new avenues of gameplay, 50k sp to a bittervet knocks 1 measley day off of whatever level 5 skill they have training.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5479 - 2015-11-06 19:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Doddy wrote:

A few plexes?

new char starts with 500k sp, first 4.5 million of tsp has no diminishing returns so 9 TSP to get there.

next 20 mil is added at 400 k sp per TSP so another 50 TSP

59 TSP to get to the 25 million sp you dismiss, by best guess prices that is about 30 plex, not "a few"

to get to your 80 million char that is another 25 million sp at 400k/TSP, so another 62.5 TSP

plus 30 million sp at 200k sp/TSP, so another 150 TSP

So 262 TSPfor this 80 mil sp char you speak of, 131 plex

From that point on to get to a mighty 100 mil sp character would take another 400 TSP/200 plex

So yeah, like people paying 140 billion isk / $2700 dollars for an 80 mil char when they could already get the same for far, far less in the bazarr is remotely an issue. Oh noes, they get to pick the chars name and its date of birth wont match its sp, boohoohohhoo how terrible my bittervet backbone.

Dont even get me started on the idea that people are going to spend another 200 billion+ isk/ $4000 to add each 20 mil sp after that. A 300 mil char for 2.3 trillion isk/$47k dollars? wow that sounds like a great idea...... I am sure there will be scores of them flying around.

Though yeah, a simple hard cap and monthly cap and people terrified of some millionaire having more sp than them wont even have their imagination to bother them.


-Agreed - The system as it stands will be way out of the financial reach of a newbie --- why do you keep saying its good for newbies

Quote:

That is not what i said at all. It will be way out of reach for anyone to add more than a a few mil sp in TSP. If you cant get your head around the fact that a newbie doubling their SP for 500 mil isk is in a better position than a bittervet adding o.o25% to their sp for the same 500 mil isk there is really no hope for you at all. You clearly have no understanding of how eves skill system works. 500k sp to a newbie unlocks whole new avenues of gameplay, 50k sp to a bittervet knocks 1 measley day off of whatever level 5 skill they have training.


- Agreed - The system as it stands only gives a 0.025% increase to a Vets skils and as such is no use to them -- why do you keep saying its what vets want
Doddy
Excidium.
#5480 - 2015-11-06 19:31:01 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added

A well focused 50mill SP will match 80mill SP in earning potential (either is more than enough to do any isk earning activity). I certainly am not making 8x what I was then, I doubt most people are that didn't find something entirely different and more lucrative to do, likely largely decoupled from their prior SP investment as well.

That said I think it should actually cap at some point to where no further SP can be added.



Probably an exaggeration on my part with the 5k skill point -

but its a lot easier to make a plex worth of ISK with an 80 mill toon than a 25 mill - I like the cap for adding more SP or maybe a time limit for how many you can plugin over a period of time - a cool down timer for TSP implants


Its not "much easier" to make isk with an 80 mil sp toon than a 25 mil toon. You are completely making that up. The 80 mil toon might be able to do it in different ways the 25 mil toon can't but what method of making isk will a 25 mil toon be heavily outcompeted by an 80 mil toon? Given for sub caps only 30 mil or so sp is actually relevant at any given time and diminishing returns makes that 5 million sp negligible it isn't the case in pve. In high end industry it might mean running one less job at a time, maybe a 5% cut in productivity?

Past the initial basic skill training (10mil?) all the sp players gain is either put into being able to do different things, or chasing tiny improvements in eficiency. If you are on of those people who thinks some lame level 5 skill which gives a 2% bonus to some irrelevant stat makes things "way easier" for anyone there is really no hope for you.


My 24mill SP toon in a pimped out rattlesnake can solo nealy all the sites in a C3
Combat Sigs drop - 100-150 million per hours work

I cannot solo anything in a C5 but as a 12 year old player I'm pretty sure you can
Combat sigs 200 - 400 million per hour

Let me see ... is it easier active-ratting in a C3 for 100-150 mill per hour or watching Netflix while passive drone ratting in a C5 for upto 4 times that.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=410322 most of the posters here seem to think the numbers are accurate - someone else's post so - Completely NOT made up


More nonsense. Nowhere in that thread does it mention sp of players.

What 12 year old player? You said 80 million SP, that is a char a third that old.

Even so an 80mil rattlesnake char wont run C3s "much easier" than you. A 24 mil sp capital/marauder char wont run C5s "much harder" than an 80mil sp char. Why are you being so dishonest as to compare two completely different things?