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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Doddy
Excidium.
#5441 - 2015-11-05 23:19:12 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??


That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5442 - 2015-11-05 23:19:40 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Your time and effort has not gained you any sp, so what are you on about really? How surprising that you don't see your money having given you an advantage .....

My 30 days of time give me exactly 2700 x 24 x 31 = 2.08m sp's to be precise

Nitpicking: How did your 30 days time give you 31 days of SP (per your math)?
Doddy
Excidium.
#5443 - 2015-11-05 23:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Your time and effort has not gained you any sp, so what are you on about really? How surprising that you don't see your money having given you an advantage .....

My 30 days of time give me exactly 2700 x 24 x 31 = 2.08m sp's to be precise


2.08m sp more than the next man.

Though what about the other 9 years, 11 months? Don't say plex because they haven't been around that long.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5444 - 2015-11-05 23:23:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Your time and effort has not gained you any sp, so what are you on about really? How surprising that you don't see your money having given you an advantage .....

My 30 days of time give me exactly 2700 x 24 x 31 = 2.08m sp's to be precise

Nitpicking: How did your 30 days time give you 31 days of SP (per your math)?

Cause im tired lol i got a freebie Blink okay 1.944 m Lol

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5445 - 2015-11-05 23:28:43 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??


That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite?

The same reason i asked you, for what reason is there a need for catchup. why do you need to catch a 12 year old character up when you can be very effective within 1 month.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5446 - 2015-11-05 23:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??


That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite?

The same reason i asked you, for what reason is there a need for catchup. why do you need to catch a 12 year old character up when you can be very effective within 1 month.


I don't, i just don't see why people shouldn't be ale to if they want to. Why should one player be able to spend money on sp and not the other just because he got to the game later, or couldn't stay subbed?

Why shouldn't somebody be able to give their friend new to the game 4.5 mil of their sp so they could fly in fleet with them straight away rather than waiting that month you talk of?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5447 - 2015-11-05 23:38:23 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??


That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite?

The same reason i asked you, for what reason is there a need for catchup. why do you need to catch a 12 year old character up when you can be very effective within 1 month.


I don't, i just don't see why people shouldn't be ale to if they want to. Why should one player be able to spend money on sp and not the other just because he got to the game later, or couldn't stay subbed?

Its like a lvl1 character in wow asking why he cant be instant 100 because i couldnt be arsed to try it until now, Its an impossible ask to try and balance something that already has over a decade of history.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5448 - 2015-11-05 23:41:47 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:

Its like a lvl1 character in wow asking why he cant be instant 100 because i couldnt be arsed to try it until now, Its an impossible ask to try and balance something that already has over a decade of history.


That is nonsense, progression in wow is based on"time and effort" as you put it. Progression in eve is based on number of subs paid (directly or indirectly through plex). What balance is involved? None whatsoever. And a 5 million sp eve char is not the same as a level 100 wow char so why even compare the two?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5449 - 2015-11-05 23:42:24 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??


That is the whole point ffs. If it doesn't matter, why is protecting peoples bought sp advantage so important to you? is it just spite?

The same reason i asked you, for what reason is there a need for catchup. why do you need to catch a 12 year old character up when you can be very effective within 1 month.


I don't, i just don't see why people shouldn't be ale to if they want to. Why should one player be able to spend money on sp and not the other just because he got to the game later, or couldn't stay subbed?

Why shouldn't somebody be able to give their friend new to the game 4.5 mil of their sp so they could fly in fleet with them straight away rather than waiting that month you talk of?

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5450 - 2015-11-05 23:50:16 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5451 - 2015-11-05 23:54:46 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?

This is my last one tonight, go back to time and effort for sense of acheivement, reward = longevity
instant gratification = short life span.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5452 - 2015-11-05 23:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?

This is my last one tonight, go back to time and effort for sense of acheivement, reward = longevity
instant gratification = short life span.

If reward = longevity than there is no need to participate in the game. Just wait offline and chating on forum... Thats why you here.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Doddy
Excidium.
#5453 - 2015-11-06 00:09:44 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

I dont have a problem with them giving a new account 1st slot toon 6 to 8 mill sp's to play with, a decent character creation with templates so theyre built properly from the off, same with attribs removed and everything being increased, but selling of disected players is just wrong


Why is it "just wrong"? I mean its very (very) in universe, it helps people out, what is the issue? A few sensible caps put in place by ccp and nobody will notice, some people will get rid of unused sp, some people with train a little faster, some people will trade rl money for isk in a slightly different way. Really what is the big deal?

This is my last one tonight, go back to time and effort for sense of acheivement, reward = longevity
instant gratification = short life span.


But no time and effort goes into gaining sp in eve, and that is the only thing being effected. Unless you are seriously OCD with the training queue you spend a few minutes a year gaining sp in eve, the rest is happening without you. As for effort the only effort involved is any earned isk you spend on implants or skillbooks, both of which can currently be bought for rl cash via plex already, TSP would be no different than those.

And who plays eve for the acheivement of learning a skill anyway? I have never seen a skill notification pop and think "ah, thats me done enough for tonight, didn't i do well earning that skill. I will need to come back tomorrow and play some more and earn myself another skill".

Goodnight
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#5454 - 2015-11-06 00:10:32 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

go back to time

How far?


misquoted

He meant go back to a gameplay where time and effort bring a reward.

I am not sure what the effort is in waiting for skill-points to generate, but that's what he was talking about.

To say that that skill packs are instant gratification is really inaccurate. EvE players are not learning skills just so they can say they have 'xxx' amount of points, they want to fly ships and use them in space against other objects controlled by player/NPC.
Gratification comes from succeeding in those activities, have nothing to do with skill point generation.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5455 - 2015-11-06 00:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Sasha Sen wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

go back to time

How far?


misquoted

He meant go back to a gameplay where time and effort bring a reward.

I am not sure what the effort is in waiting for skill-points to generate, but that's what he was talking about.

To say that that skill packs are instant gratification is really inaccurate. EvE players are not learning skills just so they can say they have 'xxx' amount of points, they want to fly ships and use them in space against other objects controlled by player/NPC.
Gratification comes from succeeding in those activities, have nothing to do with skill point generation.

Don't worry I'm just a worst troll ever on eve-o =)

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5456 - 2015-11-06 00:28:17 UTC
Doddy wrote:


You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.


Give it a rest pal. Painting everyone who disagrees with your opinion as some sort of 'p2w collaborator' is cheap and can just as cheaply turned around to suit the opposite argument. Everyone who wants tsps just wants to exploit it for their own gain and doesn't care about new players at all. These banal kind of arguments are a waste of everybody's time.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5457 - 2015-11-06 00:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:


You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.


Give it a rest pal. Painting everyone who disagrees with your opinion as some sort of 'p2w collaborator' is cheap and can just as cheaply turned around to suit the opposite argument. Everyone who wants tsps just wants to exploit it for their own gain and doesn't care about new players at all. These banal kind of arguments are a waste of everybody's time.

OK. What is your personal reason against this idea? How it will hurt you?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5458 - 2015-11-06 01:43:57 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:


You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.


Give it a rest pal. Painting everyone who disagrees with your opinion as some sort of 'p2w collaborator' is cheap and can just as cheaply turned around to suit the opposite argument. Everyone who wants tsps just wants to exploit it for their own gain and doesn't care about new players at all. These banal kind of arguments are a waste of everybody's time.

OK. What is your personal reason against this idea? How it will hurt you?


It won't.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5459 - 2015-11-06 03:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5460 - 2015-11-06 04:36:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Iowa Banshee wrote:
0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added


If you think of this as how much ISK a character can afford to pay -- It looks like it assumes that a bitterVet only earns 10x times a newbie can earn - 8 x more than a 50mil SP player

No wonder TSP is being defended with so much fervor - Given the real earnings you can make with a 80mill ++ toon they can afford to consume these TSP like candy

Its way off - maybe it should be
> 80 million skillpoints = 5,000 unallocated skillpoints added

A well focused 50mill SP will match 80mill SP in earning potential (either is more than enough to do any isk earning activity). I certainly am not making 8x what I was then, I doubt most people are that didn't find something entirely different and more lucrative to do, likely largely decoupled from their prior SP investment as well.

That said I think it should actually cap at some point to where no further SP can be added.