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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Jared Khanar
#5421 - 2015-11-05 22:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Quote:

My main is at 79m sp right now. I have invested every sp into specialising this character for the gameplay I have choosen, when I joined eve. But it´s boring after all and I´d like to experience new areas of the game. I have used SP Transfers to be able to compete with all these vets, but my character has no single sp in skills, that support my new adventures. I will never be able to catch up to all those, active in these areas of the game.

SP trading has been introduced to enable us to compete, so seriously CCP; please remove dimishing returns. They are meaningless and only a artificially barrier in character progression.

It´s only forcing us to sub additional accounts for different, specialised characters. It´s not good for the new player retention if everyone thinks they must sub xyz accounts play this game.

There´s not even a character in the bazaar as I would need one. Let us make use of this way to progress, as it is intended!

This would make no difference after all for the game itself! Would throw loads of money at you, also.


Coming soon... maybe

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5422 - 2015-11-05 22:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Levi Belvar wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.
What misuse is prevented? If the consumption of SP is unchanged and the SP can be sold on the market and thus manipulated there, what's the gain? Or are you suggesting it can't be market sold? If so do you intend this to require real money?

Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP? How does this supposed depreciation, which has every new character potentially working against it, differ from the idea as proposed? If it doesn't, how is noting depreciation relevant?


CCP sell direct to a player only - It cannot be traded on the market

0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added

Still using the above. New players get the most benefit from it, but anyone can use them higher level players still only get lower amount ...... that easier for you to follow.
So the questions you didn't answer (further clarification where needed is presented):

What misuse is prevented (compared to the proposal in the op)?
Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP?
How is noting depreciation relevant (it didn't change)?

And now to add:

What actual benefit over the proposed are you trying to create here?
Doddy
Excidium.
#5423 - 2015-11-05 22:19:48 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5424 - 2015-11-05 22:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy. If its so flawed explain the following

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee.

The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ). Data compiled aug 2013.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5425 - 2015-11-05 22:25:23 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.
What misuse is prevented? If the consumption of SP is unchanged and the SP can be sold on the market and thus manipulated there, what's the gain? Or are you suggesting it can't be market sold? If so do you intend this to require real money?

Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP? How does this supposed depreciation, which has every new character potentially working against it, differ from the idea as proposed? If it doesn't, how is noting depreciation relevant?


CCP sell direct to a player only - It cannot be traded on the market

0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added

Still using the above. New players get the most benefit from it, but anyone can use them higher level players still only get lower amount ...... that easier for you to follow.


Why is this any better than what is porposed? Surely it being exposed to market forces would be better than CCP dictating price? Also CCP are trying to fix the character respeccing issue at the same time, so are you against that, or do you just think they should put yet another mechanic in for that?

The only difference is that people wouldn't be able to sell thier sp for isk. But why is that an issue? I mean if selling some sp lets them plex for another month surely it is a good thing. They paid to train the sp in the first place after all, surely them being able to sell it in game is fair enough, it is effectively like selling a plex.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5426 - 2015-11-05 22:31:26 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.
What misuse is prevented? If the consumption of SP is unchanged and the SP can be sold on the market and thus manipulated there, what's the gain? Or are you suggesting it can't be market sold? If so do you intend this to require real money?

Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP? How does this supposed depreciation, which has every new character potentially working against it, differ from the idea as proposed? If it doesn't, how is noting depreciation relevant?


CCP sell direct to a player only - It cannot be traded on the market

0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added

Still using the above. New players get the most benefit from it, but anyone can use them higher level players still only get lower amount ...... that easier for you to follow.


Why is this any better than what is porposed? Surely it being exposed to market forces would be better than CCP dictating price? Also CCP are trying to fix the character respeccing issue at the same time, so are you against that, or do you just think they should put yet another mechanic in for that?

The only difference is that people wouldn't be able to sell thier sp for isk. But why is that an issue? I mean if selling some sp lets them plex for another month surely it is a good thing. They paid to train the sp in the first place after all, surely them being able to sell it in game is fair enough, it is effectively like selling a plex.

As i previously said, player driven has so many unknown outcomes, this way does away with.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Doddy
Excidium.
#5427 - 2015-11-05 22:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy


What assumptions? What doesn't apply? You are just saying nothing with that post. What does the skill training system have to do with enjoyment of the game? How on earth can anyone base enjoyment of the game on how they buy progression? I am one of those people who has paid for the game for 12 years, it is just embarrassing to see all the hypocrisy of my fellow subscribers who pretend they don't gain an advantage through their money. I doubt there are many people in this thread who have more experience or have recieved more enjoyment from eve than I have. I certainly have more undertsanding of the game than the poisonous forum troll sin here.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5428 - 2015-11-05 22:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Levi Belvar wrote:
As i previously said, player driven has so many unknown outcomes, this way does away with.
These outcomes are negative how? And they are worth trading the capacity for end users to use the feature without real money why?

I have to be honest and say this is a very vague and indescript benefit. To the point of not actually being able to be called such. Despite the request for a specific way this improves the system or a specific negative it avoids are met with anything but that, we're just given the blind insistence that it is.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5429 - 2015-11-05 22:44:24 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy. If its so flawed explain the following

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee.

The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ). Data compiled aug 2013.


Nice ninja edit.


Seriously, you quote stats from 2013 to pretend Eve is growing? None of those things are still true 2 years later, surprisingly enough. It would be easy to argue that Eve has been on a terrible downward change ever since Burn Jita (the brief upsurge afterwards excepted). What does eve numbes growing for 6 months then collapsing prove?

Did you actually take part in the riots? Because they were based around the fact CCP was ignoring its in space development to create cosmetic microtransaction fodder. It is a massive leap to connect the two when a) CCP has been probably meddling in space too much rather than too little recently (Fozzie Sov) and b) these changes do not take any meaningful development time and are not cosmetic nonsense but instead a useful tool.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5430 - 2015-11-05 22:49:23 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy. If its so flawed explain the following

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee.

The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ). Data compiled aug 2013.

Are you Droring now? Is it contagious?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Doddy
Excidium.
#5431 - 2015-11-05 22:50:06 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:


If you look at it like that then its also the only game where you progress without even lifting a finger to play, all other MMO's you only advance whilst playing so if you can only play 3 months of the year your never going to level a character near cap, is that wrong now also.


Of course it is... Play those other MMOS and you lose nothing compared to players who are not playing. In eve you lose out to players who are not playing, so long as they pay the man. Its a rich mans world apparently.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5432 - 2015-11-05 22:52:14 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy


What assumptions? What doesn't apply? You are just saying nothing with that post. What does the skill training system have to do with enjoyment of the game? How on earth can anyone base enjoyment of the game on how they buy progression? I am one of those people who has paid for the game for 12 years, it is just embarrassing to see all the hypocrisy of my fellow subscribers who pretend they don't gain an advantage through their money. I doubt there are many people in this thread who have more experience or have recieved more enjoyment from eve than I have. I certainly have more undertsanding of the game than the poisonous forum troll sin here.

Ive never looked at playing the game for the past 10 years as a monetary investment like you, ive played to enjoy myself, not grinding to play either. im not locked to any illusion that the skillpoint system has held me back in anyway quite the opposite actually as for a good 4 years was spent switching between eve and wow. I dont see i have an advantage through money but my time and effort. I couldnt care less if you'd been playing a week or from beta. everything you say is about money ...... i look at what i have achieved through the time ive spent in game the friends ive made some from 10 years ago, that is priceless. Explain how you can balance a game that is driven by time investment not money, If so many things have been wrong from launch what kept people joining it ever increasing in popularity until 18 months / 2 years ago ??

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5433 - 2015-11-05 23:02:38 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source


You do understand that skilling a character is an investment of money while people buying sp with isk are investing time right? Roll


The reason he's giving for all his arguments is based around how hes twisted this statement,


This is the fundamental issue. All the people against TSPs are basically supporting the pay to win Eve has had since it started, mainly because they already paid thier money and don't want other people to have the opportunity to catch up.


Cobblers. I solo pvp in t1 frigates with no links and very cheap implants. A character with a few months proper training could be on an even playing field with me and could have an advantage over me if they dropped cash on a links char. Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5434 - 2015-11-05 23:05:57 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source


You do understand that skilling a character is an investment of money while people buying sp with isk are investing time right? Roll


The reason he's giving for all his arguments is based around how hes twisted this statement,


This is the fundamental issue. All the people against TSPs are basically supporting the pay to win Eve has had since it started, mainly because they already paid thier money and don't want other people to have the opportunity to catch up.


Cobblers. I solo pvp in t1 frigates with no links and very cheap implants. A character with a few months proper training could be on an even playing field with me and could have an advantage over me if they dropped cash on a links char. Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you.


You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5435 - 2015-11-05 23:08:30 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you.

It's new fashion. Ask Levi about it.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Doddy
Excidium.
#5436 - 2015-11-05 23:13:00 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions



Spamming is just bad game design, it encourages grinding of repetitive game play. Training tied to subscription is bad game design in the other direction, it does nothing to promote game play, only paying money to the developer, and is unfair on people who happened to come to the game later than others. Obviously a happy medium would be best, where progression occurs through normal goal driven gameplay, but there is no way eve is going to be retrofitted in that way.

So the only way forward for eve is to make the subscription based system more equitable, and while flawed TSP would do this. A simple SP hard cap would prevent it being exploited. Diminishing returns both in the process and in the way eve skills work mean nobody would ever try to get to the cap anyway, but it would make people feel better if there was one.



You base all your assumptions of other game designs which really dont apply, if you cannot see the differences i do not understand why you even bother to play eve in the first place as its clearly not a game 1. you understand 2 enjoy


What assumptions? What doesn't apply? You are just saying nothing with that post. What does the skill training system have to do with enjoyment of the game? How on earth can anyone base enjoyment of the game on how they buy progression? I am one of those people who has paid for the game for 12 years, it is just embarrassing to see all the hypocrisy of my fellow subscribers who pretend they don't gain an advantage through their money. I doubt there are many people in this thread who have more experience or have recieved more enjoyment from eve than I have. I certainly have more undertsanding of the game than the poisonous forum troll sin here.

Ive never looked at playing the game for the past 10 years as a monetary investment like you, ive played to enjoy myself, not grinding to play either. im not locked to any illusion that the skillpoint system has held me back in anyway quite the opposite actually as for a good 4 years was spent switching between eve and wow. I dont see i have an advantage through money but my time and effort. I couldnt care less if you'd been playing a week or from beta. everything you say is about money ...... i look at what i have achieved through the time ive spent in game the friends ive made some from 10 years ago, that is priceless. Explain how you can balance a game that is driven by time investment not money, If so many things have been wrong from launch what kept people joining it ever increasing in popularity until 18 months / 2 years ago ??


So why are you so keen to defend peoples investment? If you don't care you shouldn't be here, it wouldn't matter to you. Maybe you are lying to yourself?

Eve has plenty to it beyond the skill progression system, why are you so fixated on sp = gameplay, its nonsense.

Your time and effort has not gained you any sp, so what are you on about really? How surprising that you don't see your money having given you an advantage .....
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5437 - 2015-11-05 23:13:21 UTC
Doddy wrote:
You don't have to intend it for it to be true. Maybe you have the best intentions in the world. Doesn't alter the facts. Even if you are not supporting it for you you are supporting it for someone.

You can be fleet ready now in a fully fitted T3 destroyer T2 fitted in a month, Thats the free month before they actually start their subbed month.going back even five years ago you had no chance of being close to that, more like 3 to 4 months how exactly are they in anyway being held back apart from knowledge and being able to open there mouths and either joining a training corp or finding a corp that will train them ??

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5438 - 2015-11-05 23:15:36 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you.

It's new fashion. Ask Levi about it.

The best thing you could do is go forth and multiply Blink

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5439 - 2015-11-05 23:18:17 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Your time and effort has not gained you any sp, so what are you on about really? How surprising that you don't see your money having given you an advantage .....

My 30 days of time give me exactly 2700 x 24 x 31 = 2.08m sp's to be precise

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5440 - 2015-11-05 23:18:52 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Stop making convenient and untrue generalizations about the motivations of those who disagree with you.

It's new fashion. Ask Levi about it.

The best thing you could do is go forth and multiply Blink

Are you sure that you fixed the translator?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts