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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5201 - 2015-10-31 09:39:10 UTC
Erasmus Grant wrote:
CCP would be better off selling Neural Remaps and name changes for characters.

We already had this convesation.

Dev blog
Quote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5202 - 2015-10-31 09:57:15 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Dev blog
Quote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.


That translated means : Players would be able to customize there characters with very little profit for us so thats not going to happen.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5203 - 2015-10-31 10:12:12 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dev blog
Quote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.


That translated means : Players would be able to customize there characters with very little profit for us so thats not going to happen.

You broke the translator.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5204 - 2015-10-31 10:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dev blog
Quote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.


That translated means : Players would be able to customize there characters with very little profit for us so thats not going to happen.

You broke the translator.


CCP Rise wrote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.

BUT, if you buy the plex off us its fine go ahead and knock yourself out !!!!!

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5205 - 2015-10-31 10:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:

That translated means : Players would be able to customize there characters with very little profit for us so thats not going to happen.

You broke the translator.


CCP Rise wrote:
We want to make sure training decisions are still very important and that rapid respeccing of skills is not an efficient choice at any point.

BUT, if you buy the plex of us its fine go ahead and knock yourself out !!!!!

Keep calm

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5206 - 2015-10-31 12:48:25 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Your back with some more clueless ramblings, A twink is a character that has items that are far superior for its level of intended use, best enchantments armour weapons, so your twink is given t1 ammo ..... your priceless Dror.

Infact seeing as you opened that door, the reason you can't have twinks in this game is we have no locked characters, classes or content, player A plays for 90 days / player B plays for 90 days regardless if they both play the same amount of time or player A logs in every day and player B plays at the weekends only, at the end of the 90 days they both have the same skillpoints to distribute.

They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

If you'd like to find ramblings, maybe you should just go check out your replies on my quite valid interpretations of studies. Did you ever get that email?

Tiberius Heth wrote:
Verminah Helbain wrote:
Why did they even bother posting this when it seems they have no intent on replying at all.


They're trying to see if they can get away with it. If we blink for a second, lower our guard just a tiny bit or perhaps grow tired of being ever defiant, they'll sneak in P2W juuuuust a tiny, teensy little bit... for now.

Do note that while they so cleverly grabbed our attention with this monstrosity of an idea they quickly brought us this new Crimson Harvest thing which is, of course, a test bed for more P2W.

As stated in the thread, it's no more P2W than the remainder of the game / the bazaar, so would you like to explain why you have a problem with characters getting SP..?

Erasmus Grant wrote:
CCP would be better off selling Neural Remaps and name changes for characters.

They're trying to get rid of attributes, and if there's really a decent demographic against SP trading, there's no reason those of the same should entertain the idea of renames for PLEX or whatever.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5207 - 2015-10-31 13:21:34 UTC
Dror wrote:
They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

" In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]"

In role-playing video games, particularly MMORPGs, twinking refers to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available to new or low-level characters. A twink in this usage is a type of powergamer and munchkin. The term can also refer to the twinked character itself (e.g., "My twink has all the best gear."). In its most basic definition, a twink is a character with better gear than one could have easily acquired on one's own.

Twinking is typically done by transferring higher-end equipment from the player's (or their friend's) more-experienced characters (who often have excess gear that would be much more useful to the lower-level character). It can also be done by equipping the character with the best possible gear for their level range, and filling them with end-game enchantments.

Many new players dislike twinking of others' characters, since it gives a big advantage to established players starting a new character.[7] Some new players do not like to have their own characters twinked, as they prefer to earn the equipment for themselves.

It's common for twinking items to be traded at good values due to persistent demand. Sometimes, this will go so far as to inflate twink equipment prices, as high level players are willing to pay more than a newbie would be able to.

Now check out the article If you so wish, As you so like pointing out were not on about FPS, MOBA's either, but i forgot your full of crap theories and only game experiences point to why we should turn EvE into said games don't apply.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5208 - 2015-10-31 13:44:09 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

" In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]"

In role-playing video games, particularly MMORPGs, twinking refers to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available to new or low-level characters. A twink in this usage is a type of powergamer and munchkin. The term can also refer to the twinked character itself (e.g., "My twink has all the best gear."). In its most basic definition, a twink is a character with better gear than one could have easily acquired on one's own.

Twinking is typically done by transferring higher-end equipment from the player's (or their friend's) more-experienced characters (who often have excess gear that would be much more useful to the lower-level character). It can also be done by equipping the character with the best possible gear for their level range, and filling them with end-game enchantments.

Many new players dislike twinking of others' characters, since it gives a big advantage to established players starting a new character.[7] Some new players do not like to have their own characters twinked, as they prefer to earn the equipment for themselves.

It's common for twinking items to be traded at good values due to persistent demand. Sometimes, this will go so far as to inflate twink equipment prices, as high level players are willing to pay more than a newbie would be able to.

Now check out the article If you so wish, As you so like pointing out were not on about FPS, MOBA's either, but i forgot your full of crap theories and only game experiences point to why we should turn EvE into said games don't apply.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5209 - 2015-10-31 13:53:38 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

" In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]"

In role-playing video games, particularly MMORPGs, twinking refers to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available to new or low-level characters. A twink in this usage is a type of powergamer and munchkin. The term can also refer to the twinked character itself (e.g., "My twink has all the best gear."). In its most basic definition, a twink is a character with better gear than one could have easily acquired on one's own.

Twinking is typically done by transferring higher-end equipment from the player's (or their friend's) more-experienced characters (who often have excess gear that would be much more useful to the lower-level character). It can also be done by equipping the character with the best possible gear for their level range, and filling them with end-game enchantments.

Many new players dislike twinking of others' characters, since it gives a big advantage to established players starting a new character.[7] Some new players do not like to have their own characters twinked, as they prefer to earn the equipment for themselves.

It's common for twinking items to be traded at good values due to persistent demand. Sometimes, this will go so far as to inflate twink equipment prices, as high level players are willing to pay more than a newbie would be able to.

Now check out the article If you so wish, As you so like pointing out were not on about FPS, MOBA's either, but i forgot your full of crap theories and only game experiences point to why we should turn EvE into said games don't apply.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition


There's no fallacy in my statement in what ever context you want to try to look at it, you stated to give a twink t1 ammo, which indicates your a clueless ignoramus on anything based on MMO experiences. Then to post what you just did gives credence that most of your arguements are either unsubstantiated theories and quotes then cry strawman to deflect.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5210 - 2015-10-31 14:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:

There's no fallacy in my statement in what ever context you want to try to look at it,

So you might be a fraud because of it.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5211 - 2015-10-31 14:21:17 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

" In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]"

In role-playing video games, particularly MMORPGs, twinking refers to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available to new or low-level characters. A twink in this usage is a type of powergamer and munchkin. The term can also refer to the twinked character itself (e.g., "My twink has all the best gear."). In its most basic definition, a twink is a character with better gear than one could have easily acquired on one's own.

Twinking is typically done by transferring higher-end equipment from the player's (or their friend's) more-experienced characters (who often have excess gear that would be much more useful to the lower-level character). It can also be done by equipping the character with the best possible gear for their level range, and filling them with end-game enchantments.

Many new players dislike twinking of others' characters, since it gives a big advantage to established players starting a new character.[7] Some new players do not like to have their own characters twinked, as they prefer to earn the equipment for themselves.

It's common for twinking items to be traded at good values due to persistent demand. Sometimes, this will go so far as to inflate twink equipment prices, as high level players are willing to pay more than a newbie would be able to.

Now check out the article If you so wish, As you so like pointing out were not on about FPS, MOBA's either, but i forgot your full of crap theories and only game experiences point to why we should turn EvE into said games don't apply.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition


There's no fallacy in my statement in what ever context you want to try to look at it, you stated to give a twink t1 ammo, which indicates your a clueless ignoramus on anything based on MMO experiences. Then to post what you just did gives credence that most of your arguements are either unsubstantiated theories and quotes then cry strawman to deflect.

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5212 - 2015-10-31 14:25:06 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
They still call CS' and MOBA's experienced re-rolls twinks even though they can't an advantage from their other accounts.

" In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]"

In role-playing video games, particularly MMORPGs, twinking refers to outfitting a new character or player with items or other resources that are not normally available to new or low-level characters. A twink in this usage is a type of powergamer and munchkin. The term can also refer to the twinked character itself (e.g., "My twink has all the best gear."). In its most basic definition, a twink is a character with better gear than one could have easily acquired on one's own.

Twinking is typically done by transferring higher-end equipment from the player's (or their friend's) more-experienced characters (who often have excess gear that would be much more useful to the lower-level character). It can also be done by equipping the character with the best possible gear for their level range, and filling them with end-game enchantments.

Many new players dislike twinking of others' characters, since it gives a big advantage to established players starting a new character.[7] Some new players do not like to have their own characters twinked, as they prefer to earn the equipment for themselves.

It's common for twinking items to be traded at good values due to persistent demand. Sometimes, this will go so far as to inflate twink equipment prices, as high level players are willing to pay more than a newbie would be able to.

Now check out the article If you so wish, As you so like pointing out were not on about FPS, MOBA's either, but i forgot your full of crap theories and only game experiences point to why we should turn EvE into said games don't apply.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition


There's no fallacy in my statement in what ever context you want to try to look at it, you stated to give a twink t1 ammo, which indicates your a clueless ignoramus on anything based on MMO experiences. Then to post what you just did gives credence that most of your arguements are either unsubstantiated theories and quotes then cry strawman to deflect.

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

Smurf is a high skilled player who roles a new account to use his skills at a lower level to cause problems, that is not twinking, A twink gains his abilities through higher level gear not personal skill.

Refuted try again.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5213 - 2015-10-31 14:34:32 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

Smurf is a high skilled player who roles a new account to use his skills at a lower level to cause problems, that is not twinking, A twink gains his abilities through higher level gear not personal skill.

Refuted try again.

You can't refute claims of common usage. Quit with the pretentious tripe, at least unless you're going to make a point.

"Nuh uh! Games don't use 'twink' to refer to re-rolls!" See how irrelevant that is? Technically speaking, if a "smurf" set his character up with all meta-4 items (which are more expensive), he would be a twink as well.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5214 - 2015-10-31 14:42:52 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

Smurf is a high skilled player who roles a new account to use his skills at a lower level to cause problems, that is not twinking, A twink gains his abilities through higher level gear not personal skill.

Refuted try again.

You can't refute claims of common usage. Quit with the pretentious tripe, at least unless you're going to make a point.

"Nuh uh! Games don't use 'twink' to refer to re-rolls!" See how irrelevant that is? Technically speaking, if a "smurf" set his character up with all meta-4 items (which are more expensive), he would be a twink as well.


Smurf - High skilled player

Twink - A player that gains advantage by the use of higher level gear.

Anyone can twink, if they have the resources or deep pockets, a Smurf is a person with exceptional skills with weapons, e.g. Rail guns, sniping - quick scope no scope - You cant buy personal skill you doofus.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5215 - 2015-10-31 14:52:11 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

Smurf is a high skilled player who roles a new account to use his skills at a lower level to cause problems, that is not twinking, A twink gains his abilities through higher level gear not personal skill.

Refuted try again.

You can't refute claims of common usage. Quit with the pretentious tripe, at least unless you're going to make a point.

"Nuh uh! Games don't use 'twink' to refer to re-rolls!" See how irrelevant that is? Technically speaking, if a "smurf" set his character up with all meta-4 items (which are more expensive), he would be a twink as well.


Smurf - High skilled player

Twink - A player that gains advantage by the use of higher level gear.

Anyone can twink, if they have the resources or deep pockets, a Smurf is a person with exceptional skills with weapons, e.g. Rail guns, sniping - quick scope no scope - You cant buy personal skill you doofus.

You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5216 - 2015-10-31 15:03:33 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:

An appeal to the dictionary is a non-reply.

Another word for it is smurf, but they're used as the same.

Smurf is a high skilled player who roles a new account to use his skills at a lower level to cause problems, that is not twinking, A twink gains his abilities through higher level gear not personal skill.

Refuted try again.

You can't refute claims of common usage. Quit with the pretentious tripe, at least unless you're going to make a point.

"Nuh uh! Games don't use 'twink' to refer to re-rolls!" See how irrelevant that is? Technically speaking, if a "smurf" set his character up with all meta-4 items (which are more expensive), he would be a twink as well.


Smurf - High skilled player

Twink - A player that gains advantage by the use of higher level gear.

Anyone can twink, if they have the resources or deep pockets, a Smurf is a person with exceptional skills with weapons, e.g. Rail guns, sniping - quick scope no scope - You cant buy personal skill you doofus.

You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic.

Its not semantics, theyre 2 completely different things.Apart from you in this thread have you seen anyone offering support to your basic destruction of EvE, NO . If you have that sort of grievance take it up in the appropriate place not here, also i have no problem with them removing attribs from the game and setting all in game learning skills so that it improves the speed at whatever level it would be e.g. you wouldnt see them anymore but you have the equivalent base to all being set at 30 then the boost implants giving them another boost - That is not skillpoints though which is YOUR demon.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5217 - 2015-10-31 15:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic.

Its not semantics, theyre 2 completely different things.Apart from you in this thread have you seen anyone offering support to your basic destruction of EvE, NO . If you have that sort of grievance take it up in the appropriate place not here, also i have no problem with them removing attribs from the game and setting all in game learning skills so that it improves the speed at whatever level it would be e.g. you wouldnt see them anymore but you have the equivalent base to all being set at 30 then the boost implants giving them another boost - That is not skillpoints though which is YOUR demon.

Whatever affects the PCU, fresh sub interest, and the amount and intensity of content is a game problem. There seems to be no counter-argument for that.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5218 - 2015-10-31 16:10:45 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic.

Its not semantics, theyre 2 completely different things.Apart from you in this thread have you seen anyone offering support to your basic destruction of EvE, NO . If you have that sort of grievance take it up in the appropriate place not here, also i have no problem with them removing attribs from the game and setting all in game learning skills so that it improves the speed at whatever level it would be e.g. you wouldnt see them anymore but you have the equivalent base to all being set at 30 then the boost implants giving them another boost - That is not skillpoints though which is YOUR demon.

Whatever affects the PCU, fresh sub interest, and the amount and intensity of content is a game problem. There seems to be no counter-argument for that.

This info was from a MMOData dump in august 2013:

World of Warcraft is taking its second nosedive after a small recovery around oktober 2012. Landing at around 7,7 million subs. Still the biggest MMORPG out there, but at this rate EVE Online may overtake WoW in a couple of years :p

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee.

The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ).
This doesnt indicate a problem with Skillpoints but from an action that was taken to alter the game / perception of players. This needs to be remedied not total destruction derby.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5219 - 2015-10-31 16:19:36 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
You're arguing semantics. The point stands that a low-SP character would probably lose to that which has the best ammo selection and module effectiveness. We can discuss how that's completely awful for fresh subs, so much that they would probably quit (and for very specific, inherent, psychological reasons) because there's aplenty of resources on the topic.

Its not semantics, theyre 2 completely different things.Apart from you in this thread have you seen anyone offering support to your basic destruction of EvE, NO . If you have that sort of grievance take it up in the appropriate place not here, also i have no problem with them removing attribs from the game and setting all in game learning skills so that it improves the speed at whatever level it would be e.g. you wouldnt see them anymore but you have the equivalent base to all being set at 30 then the boost implants giving them another boost - That is not skillpoints though which is YOUR demon.

Whatever affects the PCU, fresh sub interest, and the amount and intensity of content is a game problem. There seems to be no counter-argument for that.

This info was from a MMOData dump in august 2013:

World of Warcraft is taking its second nosedive after a small recovery around oktober 2012. Landing at around 7,7 million subs. Still the biggest MMORPG out there, but at this rate EVE Online may overtake WoW in a couple of years :p

Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.

CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.

At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.

If you make a game for gamers, with good features, it will sell and people will pay a monthly fee.

The new PCU for EVE also means it is now the MMORPG with largest shard ( single game world ) in the world, passing Second Life which has now a PCU of around 63.000 players. It will be still a while before the absolute record will be broken tho ( 88.000 PCU in Second Life a few years ago ).
This doesnt indicate a problem with Skillpoints but from an action that was taken to alter the game / perception of players. This needs to be remedied not total destruction derby.

My word would be last.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
#5220 - 2015-10-31 17:36:30 UTC
Dror wrote:
Whatever affects the PCU, fresh sub interest, and the amount and intensity of content is a game problem. There seems to be no counter-argument for that.

Ok, but you seem to think EVE new sub and retention problems are sp based. Where is your evidence? From what I read of your posts there is only your subjective experience and/or anecdotal opinion. You have no statistics or any other survey evidence that is eve based. You simply spout generalized psychological theories about gaming.

So, since that is what you like to talk about, have you investigated delayed gratification v instant gratification and motivation. Is there not general psych research demonstrating that when things are easily obtainable or able to be bought that they lose their appeal against the sense of achievement in something that takes time and effort?

Up to now this game has been about time and effort and a sense of achievement. Introducing accelerators and outright sp purchasing abilities is starting to undermine how the sp system has operated. The character bazaar was a compromise that had to be made to combat character sales as rmt. It did not destroy the foundational system of sp accumulation. The proposed changes do.

My opinion is that the destruction of the sp mechanisms as they have existed in this game will not result in an influx of new players. It will not benefit new players either as much as it may benefit existing players with schemes involving alts. Sure, a few rl rich or willing to pay new players may decide to part with some money to develop their character. But really how many are they going to be?

Meanwhile, other veteran players will be disgusted with CCP for destroying what has made the game different and great. They will and are leaving. Is there enough instant gratification players that will find this game and stay with it for a decade, just as the current vets did?

CCP could advertise the paradigms of time and effort in character development and how it makes this game different and worth playing. But apparently its easier to cater to the current pay to win/free to play bullshit that saturates the market of MMOs. You appear to me to be part of that crowd of players. What ever attracted you to EVE? Why do you want it to become like all those other games you could be playing?What?