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re there any plans for carriers to use sentry like sqadrons? or is it just going to be fighter boats?. in that case how owuld that be in comparision to drone boats like potato battleship or ishtar?. or would regural drone usage change also?

The ewar immunity should remain when in siege/triage/bastion mode. Why? Because it is not overpowered in these modes. The ships are self-tackled. Ewar immunity on Supercarriers was bad because it meant they did not have to commit. Triage Carriers (FAX's) and Dreadnoughts do have to commit. I am all about hurting slowcats and Supercarriers, but I believe this change goes a bit too far.

No, you tell us - what is wrong with the current tackle mechanics?
It works, it's fine, no one is complaining. Yet you take it and you break it.

Nerf slowcats? Good one.
Make flying Titans more entertaining? Go for it.
Split the swiss army knife in two parts? Sounds fair.

But why are you destroying the link between subcaps and capships? What would be the role of support fleet if I can tackle and energy-neutralize with capships?

Tackling mechanics must remain as it is.
Capital neuts only create problems.
Cap-boosters are a pure cancer. Capacitor management is a great gameplay... that will only available in PVE.
5GN MWD? Dafaq are you smoking? You dont see enough of kiting in subcap fights?

Totally looking forward to oversize BS MWDs.

Really interesting changes, quite concerning however that EHP is being reduced and that RR is getting a nerf - not so much because it won't be as it is currently but more because there is no alternative to stop cap's being blapped down in extremely short order.

I've never been one in favour of a more passive mechanic in order to keep people alive which is why I am happy the RR slowcat situation is being rectified but as I stated, the lack of alternative or ability to help people stay up is now somewhat concerning.

Simply put, carriers/supcarriers seem to now effectively be taking the role of fleet support, capable of bringing pain but also for various other roles as mentioned such as webbing and scramming from a distance (a huge distance!) but even with drones having other abilities now it does not rectify the above and with FAX ships not being able to receive assistance in triage (or dreads) then something really needs to be done.

My suggestion jumps off the back of the removal of EWar immunity & the Remote ECM burst.

Introduce additional modules (High slot) on top of the ECM burst that are capable of affecting:-
Cap Regen
Shield Resistances
Armor Resistances
Tracking
ECM
Sensor Strength/Range

There should be modules on each side of this that increase/decrease the above. These modules should effectively deploy an AoE type bubble (warp disrupt bubble eg) of quite a large range (to counter fast ships also) with a cooldown that ensures active gameplay but also the ability to react to situations - 60 seconds would be a good place to start.

Introduce an "ECM Nuke" type module for Titans also that can effectively hard-reset a grid and remove all effects whether positive or negative.

What this effectively allows is carriers to counter what may be a difficult situation with survival. They can turtle within their own cap regen/shield/armor res bubbles while throwing out tracking disruptors/ecm/sensor damp fields against enemy caps or typical ships. The reason for the low CD is to allow them to chain between a group in order to keep up on enemy nano-ships.

Titans become a force-breaker within this which allows them to effectively nullify a situation which presents an alternative to countering an enemies force with the opposite type of bubbles. It also brings titans into fights more.

A more active type of gameplay from the large immobile beasts that are cap-ships would be a huge leap forward in cap-warfare and I firmly believe the above would be a great step in the right direction.

At the very least; unless nerfed even more, the Carrier will still make a very useful 'suitcase' for pilots that can still dock at mere 'Large's'.

Meanwhile the pilot can train for a Super, whilst saving up for one, and still be relatively useful!

That's not to say I don't agree, but a 2b carrier is much cheaper than a 30b Super.

Having to agree with a member of one of the most risk averse groups in Eve is painful.
Unfortunately he is right. Once you gut carriers and introduce defenseless Force Auxiliaries as logistics (stupid name for something that is ultimately the most vulnerable ship on the field, "Primary Everytime" is more accurate) you turn capital warfare into something for the largest, elitist, richest groups only.
The only way FAX become a valid class of ship is if they cost the same as a Guardian and one of them can rep like 20 Archons

The only thing I disagree with is his liking the new fighter changes - I don't see how having to control up to 5X as many, disposable fighters, is at all appealing. Multiple flights of up to 12 disposable fighters spread around a battlefield - Welcome back TIDI every time capitals land on grid.

And of course of the largest risk averse group in the game getting more supers is really going to create more content.



This is Eve - It is about getting dank risk it all fights - Not the risk averse biggest fleet wins, multiple option, intense micro management shite your planning.

So let me share my feelings, that this question is based on a fools argument CCP Masterplan; until Jump Fatigue, Capital fleets were ever watchful so as to not get dropped by Pandemic Legion (or others) either directly while operating Capitals, or as a Third Party. Why? because they could easily be wiped out by the proper counter Capital forces.

It was a deterrent that ensured either you had planned appropriately to use the largest ships in EVE, or you thought twice and undocked a sub-capital fleet instead.

When Capitals were originally created, there was a completely different meta and mindset as to why the ships were designed the way they were, how they fit within the ecosystem of EVE. However, some 'innovators' (he who shall not be named) that came after the "Old Devs', and who are no longer with CCP today, reportedly took a strong dislike towards Capitals which has thus lead us down this path to where we are being taken to today. Where we have limited jump ranges to 'contain' us, and Space Aids (Jump Fatigue) to punish us into an idle status if we are too active. But these things removed the Counter

We adapted, yet still the fear and most importantly respect of our enemy tempers acting imprudently, pressuring the need to take care in deploying Capitals for fear of a trap, counter drop that a fleet can't deal with, or becoming the victim of a Capital Hunter, etc. -- even today no one feels they are immune from being destroyed in a Capital.

The last thing that myself or any other pilot thinks is that when they deploy in a Carrier that they are 'guaranteed' not to loose anything. To state as much shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Capital pilots of this game actually play; as well as a lack of respect for the ingeniousness of the opposing forces. As a matter of fact, most fleets the question is asked "Do we need insurance for this fleet?", because everyone goes out expecting the always real potential of a counter drop.

Now, is there a hierarchy by which targets are called? Yes - are Boots/Slowcats hard to break, damn right they are - but that was designed that way! We didn't hack the game to make it that way.

What this is about is bringing low the mightiest ships in EVE, so that sub-capitals have an even playing field - Well I'm a Capital-ist, I don't believe in this Developer assisted Socialism where players receive a 'guarantee' that you'll be able to kill a Carrier if you bring enough sub-capitals isn't EVE; this isn't Freighter ganking. If you can't muster the proper counters you're not ready to be fighting forces that can field Capitals. They are EVE's nuclear deterrent... and there's no legitimate reason they not remain so.

But you want to change the Meta, and do something 'different' with Capitals? Okay, but why does different have to mean starting from scratch? And completely re-writing the rules so as to enact the 'sub-capitalization' of Capitals??

CCP's seeming 'frustration' with the current Capital meta steams more from the organized players having gone outside the game mechanics to gather better operational intelligence, to plan Strategic and Tactical Capital Operations so as to limit the potential for surprises from our adversaries, while bringing to bare massive and devastating force upon our enemies - it has absolutely nothing to do with the ships themselves. But because we figured out how to play EVE better than you can develop it, or certain enemies can play it and are unable to bring proper counters that exist in the game, we see in response from CCP a desire to break all our hard earned toys that CCP gave us, because nerfing things into oblivion seems preferential to developing even better counters as well as creating 'containment' mechanics for features that are having either unhealthy or undesirable results.


- Void Bombs - almost never used; have the potential to be something feared by Capital Groups.
- Diminishing Return: Remote Capital Repairs - capping the repair effects similar to Drone Assist limitations so that sub-caps have their 'Socialist' chance at killing a Carrier (omg yay!)
- Timers: Do damage, or Refit, but you can't do both at the same time is totally appropriate - but making the timer so long that you essentially are disabling the ability to allow a pilot to fit a tank against a Doomsday strike (or multiple) undermines the very reason that feature exists.
- Time to Target: Bombs are the counter to clouds of Sentries, and work just fine as we speak. Simply add a recall delay so that Bombs have a chance to deal the damage intended, instead of the ability to insta-recall Sentries (as an example)
- Sub-Capital anything IS NOT A COUNTER TO CAPITALS is something that needs to be enshrined in CCP's development language. And appropriate counters simply need to be improved upon.


During B-R plenty of very expensive capitals were lost, because the players themselves knew how to overcome an opposition force. They did it with other Capital ships, because sub-capitals are not the counter to Capital ship

No one want's 'immunity'. But it seems CCP does not give enough credit to its players inventiveness on how to solve these problems - and instead we are told that 'slash and burn' approaches are the only way to address the 'problem'.

Stop punishing the content creators

But if you dont make a timer - players will find some weird workaround.
They should've set a timer for dropping ore out of cargohold. Would've put an end to that sick jetcan mining that broke the game.
:sarcasm:

We do :)