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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4881 - 2015-10-25 11:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
what a troll is.

1) He must be green

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to

the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks, with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

Тот, кто намеренно и сознательно ( что цель , как правило, быть самостоятельной развлечений ) начинает аргумент в манере, которая атакует других на форуме без какого-либо прослушивания

аргументы , предложенные своих сверстников. Он вызовет такой аргумент через использование рассчитанный на предубеждения нападений , без вещества или relevence , чтобы поддержать их , а также

соломы мужчина аргументы , которые он использует, чтобы просто избежать решения сути вопроса .

If find that strawman part rather fitting for another on here too Blink

It was sarcasm See I don't even mention that you need to take some Russian lessons

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4882 - 2015-10-25 11:10:44 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Ask broad questions and you'll get more than one answer. Ask specific questions and you'll get no answer.

Just like asking for refutation on criticizing game design through research.

Edit:
Quote:
Because some character classes or skill sets can easily defeat characters of other classes or skills in many MMORPGs, developers should consider a skill-point character development system over a class-based system to balance play and to provide an opportunity for any character class engaged in combat to win.


As i said before - You were not forced to play the sand box design you chose it, Now you dont like it you want a level design structure implementing to suit your playstyle.

Try elite,freespace or kerbal or just campingshite where you dont have to worry about anything apart from your own personal skill level.

EDIT: Also looking at that quote above it clearly states, character classes, hanging fire FC we got a hot drop of mages incoming in 15 ... roger roger Druids, Dk's deploy the shields ....... Were all pilots you Moron.

Or are you saying that characters classes / hull classes - so now your inferring that we should lock out huge portions of the game because because the frigates = rogues / stealth / fast / quite powerful for there size but as strong as a chocolate fire guard.The same frigate at level 10 still couldnt engage a level 100 frigate and beat it though.

There is no way to fit your logic to this game because its unique doesnt apply oh its a sandbox.

After thinking on it , got another way - big open space surrounded by a 10 foot fence drop a kitten into it / thats the new guy, Now drop the lion in there too / thats the 80+ mill sp player - How do you propose we balance that in a sandbox game design.

"How?" It's already stated: removing SP. The remainder of that post is complete blither. Why do you get to just say that a study doesn't apply over an actual game designer and a scientific hypothesis?

What about "the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)" is not making sense? It should. It's a really simple statement. SP provides an inopportune playing field and thus detracts from character ownership, social identity, and game loyalty. This is also evidenced with the PCU.

Enjoy.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4883 - 2015-10-25 11:25:13 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Ask broad questions and you'll get more than one answer. Ask specific questions and you'll get no answer.

Just like asking for refutation on criticizing game design through research.

Edit:
Quote:
Because some character classes or skill sets can easily defeat characters of other classes or skills in many MMORPGs, developers should consider a skill-point character development system over a class-based system to balance play and to provide an opportunity for any character class engaged in combat to win.


As i said before - You were not forced to play the sand box design you chose it, Now you dont like it you want a level design structure implementing to suit your playstyle.

Try elite,freespace or kerbal or just campingshite where you dont have to worry about anything apart from your own personal skill level.

EDIT: Also looking at that quote above it clearly states, character classes, hanging fire FC we got a hot drop of mages incoming in 15 ... roger roger Druids, Dk's deploy the shields ....... Were all pilots you Moron.

Or are you saying that characters classes / hull classes - so now your inferring that we should lock out huge portions of the game because because the frigates = rogues / stealth / fast / quite powerful for there size but as strong as a chocolate fire guard.The same frigate at level 10 still couldnt engage a level 100 frigate and beat it though.

There is no way to fit your logic to this game because its unique doesnt apply oh its a sandbox.

After thinking on it , got another way - big open space surrounded by a 10 foot fence drop a kitten into it / thats the new guy, Now drop the lion in there too / thats the 80+ mill sp player - How do you propose we balance that in a sandbox game design.

"How?" It's already stated: removing SP. The remainder of that post is complete blither. Why do you get to just say that a study doesn't apply over an actual game designer and a scientific hypothesis?

What about "the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)" is not making sense? It should. It's a really simple statement. SP provides an inopportune playing field and thus detracts from character ownership, social identity, and game loyalty. This is also evidenced with the PCU.

Enjoy.

How can you fit sandbox game design into a level by level design - How could you turn EvE into campingshite without basically calling it EvE 2 - Heres for all who couldnt hack the first game.

You have not shown me a single study on EvE, You motivation BS, what motivates the depressed man to get up in a morning, what motivates the businessman, what motivates you. They all have a commonality find a goal / work towards it / celebrate small successes. Theyre not the same goals though. Show me a study strawman.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4884 - 2015-10-25 11:28:06 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
How can you fit sandbox game design into a level by level design - How could you turn EvE into campingshite without basically calling it EvE 2 - Heres for all who couldnt hack the first game.

You have not shown me a single study on EvE, You motivation BS, what motivates the depressed man to get up in a morning, what motivates the businessman, what motivates you. They all have a commonality find a goal / work towards it / celebrate small successes. Theyre not the same goals though. Show me a study strawman.

Are you ignoring the previous post?

Here's the study. Maybe it would help actually reading it. That specific text is on page 25, with some of the precedent on page 24.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4885 - 2015-10-25 11:32:42 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
How can you fit sandbox game design into a level by level design - How could you turn EvE into campingshite without basically calling it EvE 2 - Heres for all who couldnt hack the first game.

You have not shown me a single study on EvE, You motivation BS, what motivates the depressed man to get up in a morning, what motivates the businessman, what motivates you. They all have a commonality find a goal / work towards it / celebrate small successes. Theyre not the same goals though. Show me a study strawman.

Are you ignoring the previous post?

Here's the study. Maybe it would help actually reading it. That specific text is on page 25, with some of the precedent on page 24.


I think dave has covered that with apples and oranges, a case study of EvE's mechanics Vs the FPS's Vs Level by Level i'd gladly look at but not that useless shite you try to keep pushing as fact, pure baseless

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4886 - 2015-10-25 11:37:31 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
How can you fit sandbox game design into a level by level design - How could you turn EvE into campingshite without basically calling it EvE 2 - Heres for all who couldnt hack the first game.

You have not shown me a single study on EvE, You motivation BS, what motivates the depressed man to get up in a morning, what motivates the businessman, what motivates you. They all have a commonality find a goal / work towards it / celebrate small successes. Theyre not the same goals though. Show me a study strawman.

Are you ignoring the previous post?

Here's the study. Maybe it would help actually reading it. That specific text is on page 25, with some of the precedent on page 24.


I think dave has covered that with apples and oranges, a case study of EvE's mechanics Vs the FPS's Vs Level by Level i'd gladly look at but not that useless shite you try to keep pushing as fact, pure baseless

So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4887 - 2015-10-25 11:46:54 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
How can you fit sandbox game design into a level by level design - How could you turn EvE into campingshite without basically calling it EvE 2 - Heres for all who couldnt hack the first game.

You have not shown me a single study on EvE, You motivation BS, what motivates the depressed man to get up in a morning, what motivates the businessman, what motivates you. They all have a commonality find a goal / work towards it / celebrate small successes. Theyre not the same goals though. Show me a study strawman.

Are you ignoring the previous post?

Here's the study. Maybe it would help actually reading it. That specific text is on page 25, with some of the precedent on page 24.


I think dave has covered that with apples and oranges, a case study of EvE's mechanics Vs the FPS's Vs Level by Level i'd gladly look at but not that useless shite you try to keep pushing as fact, pure baseless

So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4888 - 2015-10-25 11:52:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i still find it funny how it's "trolling" to disagree with him and point out the flaws in his argument. honestly not sure he understands what a troll is.


It would have been great if you really provided any counter arguments ;) Since you just spammed with twisting out, taking things out of context, without even reading all my posts etc etc it is classic trolling.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4889 - 2015-10-25 11:58:34 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

If I showed you a motivation study, would you say I'm basing that on EVE, and point me to a PCU amount? For what point? You're not actually refuting anything, nor is the reply technically relevant; and that's because EVE's sub count was still relatively low for its feature list (and, overall, in contrast with other MMOs, plausibly even other sandboxes).

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Dave stark
#4890 - 2015-10-25 12:00:22 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i still find it funny how it's "trolling" to disagree with him and point out the flaws in his argument. honestly not sure he understands what a troll is.


It would have been great if you really provided any counter arguments ;) Since you just spammed with twisting out, taking things out of context, without even reading all my posts etc etc it is classic trolling.


and yet i still contributed more than you to the discussion. you should be slightly embarrassed by that.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4891 - 2015-10-25 12:04:43 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

If I showed you a motivation study, would you say I'm basing that on EVE, and point me to a PCU amount? For what point? You're not actually refuting anything, nor is the reply technically relevant; and that's because EVE's sub count was still relatively low for its feature list (and, overall, in contrast with other MMOs, plausibly even other sandboxes).


why change the subject back to motivation, It's a 2012 study subs were fine in 2012 where is your arguement now ?

Its for you to tell me why this study has any basis for relavence over EvE if your main bone of contention is the subs and they were fine then regarding any such loyalties in game.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4892 - 2015-10-25 12:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

If I showed you a motivation study, would you say I'm basing that on EVE, and point me to a PCU amount? For what point? You're not actually refuting anything, nor is the reply technically relevant; and that's because EVE's sub count was still relatively low for its feature list (and, overall, in contrast with other MMOs, plausibly even other sandboxes).


why change the subject back to motivation, It's a 2012 study subs were fine in 2012 where is your arguement now ?

Its for you to tell me why this study has any basis for relavence over EvE if your main bone of contention is the subs and they were fine then regarding any such loyalties in game.


Sweet nuggets in a Bun ...... Have you actually read this BS.

The time and effort an MMORPG player invests in improving the ability to
manipulate a character produces feelings of control and ultimately strong
psychological ownership toward the character, which positively influences
the player’s behavior and perception as well as generating stronger levels of
e-loyalty toward the game. In other words, the ability to control an MMORPG
character directly produces efficacy and pleasure, and also induces psychological
ownership, which in turn leads to feelings of stewardship and e-loyalty
to the MMORPG.

Time - Effort .....

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4893 - 2015-10-25 12:23:33 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

If I showed you a motivation study, would you say I'm basing that on EVE, and point me to a PCU amount? For what point? You're not actually refuting anything, nor is the reply technically relevant; and that's because EVE's sub count was still relatively low for its feature list (and, overall, in contrast with other MMOs, plausibly even other sandboxes).


why change the subject back to motivation, It's a 2012 study subs were fine in 2012 where is your arguement now ?

Its for you to tell me why this study has any basis for relavence over EvE if your main bone of contention is the subs and they were fine then regarding any such loyalties in game.

The correlation has nothing to do with 2012, but how SP reduces character effectiveness (depth and diversity), character relevance (by promoting multiple alts and undermining progression and performance), and social identity (by making the character worthless for plausibly a large majority of what a corp would do).

If you can't answer the questions, why respond?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4894 - 2015-10-25 12:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
So.. trying to pull FPS in to an MMO study, you must have nothing to say.

I asked a simple question, "What about 'the game should provide an equal opportunity (to win)' is not making sense?"

If potential EVE subs seem like they can't be competitive in a sandbox, why pay? ..Why play?


So your basing this study on EvE, this case study was done in 2012, what would your arguement be in that year when EvE's subs were still up.

If I showed you a motivation study, would you say I'm basing that on EVE, and point me to a PCU amount? For what point? You're not actually refuting anything, nor is the reply technically relevant; and that's because EVE's sub count was still relatively low for its feature list (and, overall, in contrast with other MMOs, plausibly even other sandboxes).


why change the subject back to motivation, It's a 2012 study subs were fine in 2012 where is your arguement now ?

Its for you to tell me why this study has any basis for relavence over EvE if your main bone of contention is the subs and they were fine then regarding any such loyalties in game.

The correlation has nothing to do with 2012, but how SP reduces character effectiveness (depth and diversity), character relevance (by promoting multiple alts and undermining progression and performance), and social identity (by making the character worthless for plausibly a large majority of what a corp would do).

If you can't answer the questions, why respond?


Social Identity and E-Loyalty
So now we dont just have actual games involved in the study group but :
Other found that the group identification
could occur in the absence of formal membership [67]. For example,
electronic vendors, such as Amazon.com, Google, and eBay, which have each
created a distinct consumer profile, attract committed, repeat customers with
whom they build “deep, meaningful, long-term relationships” [8, p. 76], and
these customers are both loyal and enthusiastic in promoting the use of these
e-vendor’s Web sites [51]. Srinivasan et al. [78] found that e-loyalty is generated
by community, contact interactivity, care, and character.

I give up ....... words fail me now.

Look above the study answered the question which kind of nullified what you trying to say in the first place, the skillpoints are time - effort ergo the more you put into it the more you will achieve

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4895 - 2015-10-25 12:43:08 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Spend isk to sell my SP LOL.
What does this even mean?

Either you spend ISK and buy SP.

Or you sell SP and get ISK. Unless you mean that you'll have to buy an extractor first, but that doesn't matter since when you sell the SP packets you'll get much more ISK than the cost of an extractor. Same as spending ISK to buy a module in Jita, then selling it in Ichoriya for +30%.


What you don't seem to understand is that SP will become a commodity. It will go from something you had NO WAY TO GET on any single character except by waiting RL time, to something that can be bought and sold anytime.

It won't be 'your SP' anymore! It will be just SP. Like a packaged Thorax in your hangar: it's not 'yours', it's just a Thorax temporarily in your possession. You can sell it, then buy another 10, whatever. You have no reason to cling on to it like it's the most precious space dildo in the world.

Yes, diminishing returns and buy/sell price gap yada yada, but going from 'incredibly scarce resource (for any single player)' to 'tradable commodity' is a huge change.


Since on one side (demand), everyone more or less has a use for SP and on the other (supply), anyone can generate SP just by having an active account, it's silly to think there won't be a huge market for SP once this change kicks in.

That is IF the SP packets sell - Demand is likely to not be as high as you imagine.
500 to 600 mil isk for 500k SP instantly or put that isk toward a plex and get that SP in a week? Now if a new player has 5 or 10 bil laying around buying SP may be worth it. He will pay a premium price for it..

The group who could afford the SP packages is all but excluded from using them due to diminishing returns - This is the same group who is being asked to sell SP so others can get skills they have to wait a month to train.
Why should I have to wait 27 days for battleship 5 when some rookie with cash can train it up in 5 mins using my unwanted SP.
NB; Eve is a very selfish game, players aren't going to sell SP as a commodity cheap to allow some new guy to out skill them because he has money.

Sp will only become a commodity, if players are willing to turn it into one. If there is not a decent profit to be made - It won't be available.
It is one of those things, for it to be cost effective for new players to use there has to be an excess available to keep prices down - If those selling it can't make a decent profit, why sell it.


SP for sale is not an unlimited commodity, there are only a certain amount of players active in the game who would be willing to part with SP. Farming SP is not viable if prices are to be kept down.

Bottom line (for me and many others I have spoken to) CCP is asking us to sell SP to get isk in return and end up with less SP. I don't need isk, I have more than enough. I would like to get battleship 5 instantly but am not prepared to pay 10X what someone with less than half my SP can do it for.. And, I might decide to use those mining skills one day (cyno on a tanky procurer, great bait)



My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4896 - 2015-10-25 12:54:00 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Look above the study answered the question which kind of nullified what you trying to say in the first place, the skillpoints are time - effort ergo the more you put into it the more you will achieve

You can't just pick a sentence and say it refutes every other point in the study.

SP, especially for a fresh character, has very little to do with effort. There are also still all the problems already mentioned, which come from SP, like about the equal opportunity to win a battle. Underplaying what a fresh sub can do through nothing he can actually improve (for his own character) -- especially effectiveness and diversity -- not only undermines learning and exploration, but also creativity and interest.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4897 - 2015-10-25 13:03:15 UTC
Obsidian Crowe wrote:
Please god no.
You will make EVE play to win

Good example how this thread turning players into prayers.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4898 - 2015-10-25 13:17:19 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Look above the study answered the question which kind of nullified what you trying to say in the first place, the skillpoints are time - effort ergo the more you put into it the more you will achieve

You can't just pick a sentence and say it refutes every other point in the study.

SP, especially for a fresh character, has very little to do with effort. There are also still all the problems already mentioned, which come from SP, like about the equal opportunity to win a battle. Underplaying what a fresh sub can do through nothing he can actually improve (for his own character) -- especially effectiveness and diversity -- not only undermines learning and exploration, but also creativity and interest.


When thats in there i can :

Social Identity and E-Loyalty
So now we dont just have actual games involved in the study group but :
Other found that the group identification
could occur in the absence of formal membership [67]. For example,
electronic vendors, such as Amazon.com, Google, and eBay, which have each
created a distinct consumer profile, attract committed, repeat customers with
whom they build “deep, meaningful, long-term relationships” [8, p. 76], and
these customers are both loyal and enthusiastic in promoting the use of these
e-vendor’s Web sites [51]. Srinivasan et al. [78] found that e-loyalty is generated
by community, contact interactivity, care, and character.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4899 - 2015-10-25 13:19:17 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Look above the study answered the question which kind of nullified what you trying to say in the first place, the skillpoints are time - effort ergo the more you put into it the more you will achieve

You can't just pick a sentence and say it refutes every other point in the study.

SP, especially for a fresh character, has very little to do with effort. There are also still all the problems already mentioned, which come from SP, like about the equal opportunity to win a battle. Underplaying what a fresh sub can do through nothing he can actually improve (for his own character) -- especially effectiveness and diversity -- not only undermines learning and exploration, but also creativity and interest.


When thats in there i can :

Social Identity and E-Loyalty
So now we dont just have actual games involved in the study group but :
Other found that the group identification
could occur in the absence of formal membership [67]. For example,
electronic vendors, such as Amazon.com, Google, and eBay, which have each
created a distinct consumer profile, attract committed, repeat customers with
whom they build “deep, meaningful, long-term relationships” [8, p. 76], and
these customers are both loyal and enthusiastic in promoting the use of these
e-vendor’s Web sites [51]. Srinivasan et al. [78] found that e-loyalty is generated
by community, contact interactivity, care, and character.

How is that relevant? It seems that it's deflecting from the questions.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4900 - 2015-10-25 13:47:11 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
That is IF the SP packets sell - Demand is likely to not be as high as you imagine.
Maybe, but you're making an awful lot of non-fact based or downright wrong assumptions to 'prove' that.

500 to 600 mil isk for 500k SP instantly
Why that figure? 1/4 PLEX + extractor will be the maximum price. It's highly likely that CCP will keep the extractor price much lower than 1/4 PLEX, else all this hassle would be for nothing. So 250-300 mil is far more reasonable at this point.

Now if a new player has 5 or 10 bil laying around buying SP may be worth it.
Why 10 bil? Just 1 bil will already buy you close to a month of SP... That's already pretty useful for a young character!

The group who could afford the SP packages is all but excluded from using them due to diminishing returns
What?! You get just -20% SP on a char up to 50 mil SP. That's easily a 3-year old EVE player. Easy to have a few bil at that 'age'. Also, there's PLEX.

This is the same group who is being asked to sell SP
What?! Any single non-biomassed character can sell SP. Any active account gains SP every month. Anyone can sell SP!

players aren't going to sell SP as a commodity cheap to allow some new guy to out skill them because he has money.
Players will sell SP every time they need ISK more than SP. Being a vet doesn't automatically mean being space-rich. SP accumulating on a close-to-max trading, PI, industry or hauler account is useless. Also, SP farmers will sell SP if they can make a decent profit. Since SP farming is an OFFLINE activity (MUCH LESS EFFORT than trading, afk mining, afk ratting, PI, etc.) I would say that 'decent' will be quite low. Even just 50 mil for 5 minutes of effort is 600 mil/hour!Ock

SP for sale is not an unlimited commodity
Activate dual training --> sell SP. You don't even need to learn basic game mechanics!

I don't need isk, I have more than enough.
Sure, me too. The difference is that you seem uncapable of understanding that not everyone is like us.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!