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[December] Navy EWar Frigates

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2015-10-24 21:20:27 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Webs and point/scrams are listed under electronic warfare, nos/neuts are not. There is no "utility" module section that the latter set of mods fall under, thus I'm not sure where this classification comes from.

Though admittedly that makes my prior statement off regarding cap warfare mods.


If you look at the bonuses the different races get in their tech 1 lineup, and then look at what those modules do......and consider that neuts/webs/scrams are things that we fit on our ships regardless of bonuses.....damps/TDs/painters/ecm are a completely different animal.

The navy crucifier getting a TD bonus is really odd. It should stay as is but with the TD bonuses removed. Give it a long range neut but no slot changes.

Then it'll look like...

2 lasers
1 neut

mwd
injector
point
whatever

tank in lows

It couldn't fit multiple neuts without gimping its dps, and with a long range neut it could at least eventually cap out the kiter and then be able to go in for the tackle.

The only issue is it would probably need the sentinel's range bonus as well as amount. That's 400% range and 100% amount. Idiots would likely cry foul because the number looks really big, but it's the bonus the sentinel has and it would only have one of them.
How often you use them doesn't change their classification. Rather it just means that warp disruption is a much higher priority form of ewar that TDs or ECM. The reason for that being obvious.

Fact is TDs (kinda), ECM, webs, points, damps and scrams all interfere with a ships normal functions justifying their classification as EWAR, but as one would imagine some forms are more desired than others depending on their specific effect. Also I fit painters to non-bonused hulls quite frequently in PvE due to scrams and points being of no use there.

Also your proposition makes the Crusifier weaker IMHO when it doesn't need to be. A TD bonus gives it survivability in an aggressive role, which seems to be where these ships were aimed. They chose the ewar aspect that didn't interfere with damage capacity for a reason I believe.
Esqire Evingod
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#262 - 2015-10-25 01:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Esqire Evingod
IMO Griffin Navy Issue should have shorter ECM cycle time about 1/3 - 1/2 from original (not affecting the cap usage).

Edit: To peaple who say Vigil and Maulus have T2 EWAR bonuses. Think how useful painter would be in close range frigate combat. Dampers could be usefull but circumstances so rare that it just should not be, +1 scram strenght really is kind of random.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#263 - 2015-10-25 03:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Templar Dane
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
How often you use them doesn't change their classification. Rather it just means that warp disruption is a much higher priority form of ewar that TDs or ECM. The reason for that being obvious.

Fact is TDs (kinda), ECM, webs, points, damps and scrams all interfere with a ships normal functions justifying their classification as EWAR, but as one would imagine some forms are more desired than others depending on their specific effect. Also I fit painters to non-bonused hulls quite frequently in PvE due to scrams and points being of no use there.

Also your proposition makes the Crusifier weaker IMHO when it doesn't need to be. A TD bonus gives it survivability in an aggressive role, which seems to be where these ships were aimed. They chose the ewar aspect that didn't interfere with damage capacity for a reason I believe.


It would be a sentinel with more dps but less neuting power, sans tracking disruptor. The lasers aren't going to work very well for kiting since it's forced into scram range because of it's ewar bonus......at least the neut would give it an avenue of attack to get into scram range.

It makes zero sense that it's forced into scram range while the two good navy ewar ships get to kite and do it extremely well. The vigil and maulus are going to be powerhouses, flown solo and in gangs. How on earth can it go toe to toe with the maulus/vigil? The ewar doesn't work on drones, and missiles are still going to hit even if they do reduced damage.

Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?

Oh hey, we have ewar for turrets and ewar for missiles. Sure hope you fit the right one. Those LMLs and rockets are still going to hit you even if you brought the right one.

A long range neut on the other hand........

Shut off their prop mods, their ewar, their tackle, their guns if they're using lasers/hybrids, shuts down local capacitor-dependant active tanks, shuts down a logi frigate. You now have complete range dictation barring them using an injector.

I mean really, why on earth would anyone fly a navy crucifier when they could fly a navy maulus and fit a TD to it? The effect of the TD would be 37.5% less but you'd more than make up for that with the vastly increased range and the 50% scram range bonus.

10.8km optimal on crucifier TD, 72km optimal TD on the maulus

59% optimal or tracking penalty to affected ship on crucifier, compared to 42.9% on maulus
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#264 - 2015-10-25 04:56:29 UTC
Esqire Evingod wrote:
IMO Griffin Navy Issue should have shorter ECM cycle time about 1/3 - 1/2 from original (not affecting the cap usage).

Edit: To peaple who say Vigil and Maulus have T2 EWAR bonuses. Think how useful painter would be in close range frigate combat. Dampers could be usefull but circumstances so rare that it just should not be, +1 scram strenght really is kind of random.


to keep the flavour going minmattar should be given target painters with -85% range, and Gallente should have sensor damps with -85% range.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2015-10-25 09:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Templar Dane wrote:
It would be a sentinel with more dps but less neuting power, sans tracking disruptor. The lasers aren't going to work very well for kiting since it's forced into scram range because of it's ewar bonus......at least the neut would give it an avenue of attack to get into scram range.

It makes zero sense that it's forced into scram range while the two good navy ewar ships get to kite and do it extremely well. The vigil and maulus are going to be powerhouses, flown solo and in gangs. How on earth can it go toe to toe with the maulus/vigil? The ewar doesn't work on drones, and missiles are still going to hit even if they do reduced damage.

Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?

Oh hey, we have ewar for turrets and ewar for missiles. Sure hope you fit the right one. Those LMLs and rockets are still going to hit you even if you brought the right one.

A long range neut on the other hand........

Shut off their prop mods, their ewar, their tackle, their guns if they're using lasers/hybrids, shuts down local capacitor-dependant active tanks, shuts down a logi frigate. You now have complete range dictation barring them using an injector.

I mean really, why on earth would anyone fly a navy crucifier when they could fly a navy maulus and fit a TD to it? The effect of the TD would be 37.5% less but you'd more than make up for that with the vastly increased range and the 50% scram range bonus.

10.8km optimal on crucifier TD, 72km optimal TD on the maulus

59% optimal or tracking penalty to affected ship on crucifier, compared to 42.9% on maulus
Unless the idea is to make the sentinel the longest range of the group it's still going to have issues with being kited. Especially by the vigil. Also these aren't supposed to ewar kite past mid range. The vigil with faction webs is the only one that works past 16km.

Also, why use a range script at close range when a tracking script would mitigate more damage at that point against anything with decent range (and would still likely do a number on most frigate sized ships even range scripted)?

As for the malus using a TD, would it really forego a web for it? Yeah, it could use a TD, or even ECM, but at the expense of web or prop, I'm not seeing that a choice being made. That's somewhat moot though as the malus is too strong. That the crucifier doesn't stand up to it in a 1v1 means it's closer to being balanced.

As proposed the vigil and malus just seem too strong.

Also rockets from a vigil won't be hitting if you brought the right mod and scripts unless it's not actually kiting. LML's probably won't either unless wasting the bonus range of the webs.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#266 - 2015-10-25 09:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at).

Crucifier Navy Issue:
I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km.

Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D


Griffin Navy Issue:
Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core).

Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue


Tristan Overpowered Issue Maulus Navy Issue
What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well.

Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it.


Vigil Fleet Issue
19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). Very strong ship. Nothing more to say.

Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots).



The Vigil fleet issue is even more OP than the Fleet Maulus, they both have huge engagement profiles, literally they can fight almost anything including most pirate faction frigs because they are very fast hulls, long range weapons and bonus to web/scram range makes it near impossible to pin them down. What annoys me most is they are still better than the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier even without the -85% range penalty... so what's going on here?

How have they not learned a lesson form the Mordu's legion ships? And why are you trying to justify the clearly OP state of the vigil by saying it's not quite as good as a Garmur but it will make Svipuls cry, ffs does that not tell you something? Especially since you seem to have a problem with the Navy Griffin because it's got some slightly better base stats than a t1 frig Lol

genuine feedback im sure. fyi the Fleet vigil has 160dps
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#267 - 2015-10-25 13:14:43 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Okay so here's my genuine feedback in the context of small gang/solo (since this is my area of experience and what CCP states are what these ships are designed to excel at).

Crucifier Navy Issue:
I assume the bonus will apply to the new missile disruption module, which means that if it lands a scram on you and your primary source of DPS isn't drones, it wins. 4 effective turrets, 2 drones and 4 mids make it a superb brawler. However it's rather slow so it's quite vulnerable to kiting. It's weapon disruption penalty makes disruption ineffective past 11-12km.

Conclusion: Whatever this ship can kill, the Sentinal can as well and do so without committing to scram range. Also weak against drone boats. Has some use in situations where ships land at 0 near you and you can chose the fight by spamming the directional to see what will land :D


Griffin Navy Issue:
Here's how I can outline the flaw with this ship. Let's just forget the bonus for one second. This ship has more effective turrets (with the potential for an extra missile or nos/neut), more base HP, more base cap, more base CPU (identical base PWG) and more base speed than the Merlin. It doesn't have the Merlin's tank bonus but it has an extra mid. Granted it has one less low which will means it has to sacrifice a magstab (more than made up for by the fact that it had more effective turrets and a launcher slot) or forego the auxiliary power core necessary to fit a medium shield extender (can still fit a medium ancillary without auxiliary power core).

Conclusion: tl/dr, it's a better Merlin with the option to fit a jammer. Bring a mobile depot and one of each racial jammer. A fun ship if you're into winning through dishonour. Rename to Merlin Lucky Rabbit Foot Issue


Tristan Overpowered Issue Maulus Navy Issue
What can I say, it's a Tristan with the ability to scram out to 16.2 with t2 scram or 20+ with faction scram and/or links. Not even my poor troll Venture is safe from this fit :( Extra low plus the additional CPU to fit an extra DDA or more speed as well. Oh and more base HP as well.

Conclusion: Will be extremely strong, likely overpowered when combined with links. Unlike the Garmur which can on some occasions be outplayed and die if you catch them, this ship, like the Tristan, will beat a lot of t1 brawlers even if you do manage to catch them. I noticed that this ship has the current speed of the Tristan before the proposed 10m/s speed nerf. I propose applying the same nerf to this ship and/or lowering the base EHP so that it rewards players who do manage the difficult task of catching it.


Vigil Fleet Issue
19.5km OH web. Obviously more with faction/links. Solid 4 mids, excellent base speed, 4.5 effective launchers with nova missiles, 4 effective launchers with every other damage type AND 3 drones. Extremely strong especially as webs affect oversized prop mods (Svipul/Confessor). Very strong ship. Nothing more to say.

Conclusion: I like the idea of anything that causes Svipul pilots tears. This ship has enough DPS to down almost any other frigate in the 3 minutes it has to OH its web. Garmurs however have more base tank and DPS than it so against non-oversized AB ships or ships that have MJDs the Garmur is still superior. This is definitely a strong ship but I welcome the addition of any ship that can help gangs hunt Svipuls and Confessors (will still die to Beam Confessors and Artillery Svipuls though so be careful VFI pilots).



The Vigil fleet issue is even more OP than the Fleet Maulus, they both have huge engagement profiles, literally they can fight almost anything including most pirate faction frigs because they are very fast hulls, long range weapons and bonus to web/scram range makes it near impossible to pin them down. What annoys me most is they are still better than the Navy Griffin and the Navy Crucifier even without the -85% range penalty... so what's going on here?

How have they not learned a lesson form the Mordu's legion ships? And why are you trying to justify the clearly OP state of the vigil by saying it's not quite as good as a Garmur but it will make Svipuls cry, ffs does that not tell you something? Especially since you seem to have a problem with the Navy Griffin because it's got some slightly better base stats than a t1 frig Lol

genuine feedback im sure. fyi the Fleet vigil has 160dps
Not sure if it's more OP. It has less tank meaning if you catch it you can probably kill it. But it's definitely going to be the harder one to catch and escape from.

And yes I retract my statement about it doing less DPS than the Garmur, I was just looking at the missiles. With drones it beats the Garmur in DPS which is rather redonk.
Ray P
Unquestionable Prosperity
Commonwealth Vanguard
#268 - 2015-10-25 13:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray P
Templar Dane wrote:


Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?



lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier.

just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs.

fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#269 - 2015-10-25 20:36:54 UTC
Ray P wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:


Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?



lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier.

just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs.

fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance.


If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline......

navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too

navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#270 - 2015-10-25 20:43:52 UTC
I think Vigil and Maulus are actually SICK as fuk, it's Crucifier and Griffin that are mediocre, gimped and weirdly thought out.

Gotta agree with mr Dane on the crucifier, it should be bonused to neuts.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#271 - 2015-10-25 21:48:44 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
Ray P wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:


Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?



lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier.

just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs.

fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance.


If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline......

navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too

navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler



The maulus idea is actually really good, ccp make it so !!! Im fine with the vigil, lml kiting is in a terrible spot atm.
Harreeb Alls
God of Terrorr
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#272 - 2015-10-26 03:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Harreeb Alls
Why not give the griffin and crucifier resist bonus's instead of dmg, make them ewar tacklers. It would also be interesting to give them a role bonus to racial ewar drones, which never get used. Then at least the crucifier could use neut or td drones, vigil could of use tp or web drones, maulus and griffin only get damp/ecm respectively. They'd have at least some utility at range and a way to get in close and use their midslot ewar. Otherwise they'll just get erased at range by all the strong cruiser and destroyer antitackle that's been introduced the last 2 years.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#273 - 2015-10-26 07:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:
Ray P wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:


Just to point out how absurd the TD bonus is.....

Must get into scram range to use it. Why not just fly a navy maulus with mwd/scram/TD instead?

If you're in scram range, you have to dedicate more slots to dictate range once you're there.

What good is a range script if you're already that close?



lmao it's funny that tracking disruptors are more useful on the Navy Maulus, or the Fleet Vigil than they are on the Navy Crucifier.

just came back to the game a few weeks ago and already feel like leaving again, enough fighting in eve without having to battle with devs for a fair balanced game. All these ships should have full use of their ewar but they should all be almost as slow as t1 destroyers to make up for it. NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MORE KITERS and especially not untouchable kiters with defensive scrams and webs.

fozzie: next time you step on a lego, or pour sour milk on your cornflakes you should know it's just the universe paying you back for your crimes against ship balance.


If they wanted to balance them, and keep the griffin/crucifier as the baseline......

navy maulus - penalty to drone control range, -85%. Now it has to brawl too

navy vigil - penalty to LM range. now a brawler



The maulus idea is actually really good, ccp make it so !!! Im fine with the vigil, lml kiting is in a terrible spot atm.


I could live with the fleet vigil but only because minmattar have a mediocre LP store. The Fleet Firetail is meh, the fleet stabber is meh, and the scythe fleet issue is not great, just good. Whereas Gallente have already got the Navy Comet and the godly Navy Vexor.

but make no mistake, they are both disgustingly OP for navy frigates and a few months down the line everyone will be sick of them polluting low sec with their uncatchable kite faggotry.

EDIT: actually it should lose it's drones and the hull should be much slower. At the same time the hookbill should get a speed buff and more fitting resources because it's totally outclassed by this thing. Same with the Navy Griffin which is totally outclassed by the Comet.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#274 - 2015-10-26 09:56:27 UTC
1. Fleet Vigil - Minmattar
2. Navy Maulus - Gallente
3. Comet - Gallente
4. Slicer - Amarr

^^^ these ships will get a lot of use, the vigil will probably be one of if not the most common ship in low sec pvp

5. Navy Griffin - Caldari
6. Republic Fleet Firetail - Minmattar
7. Hookbill - Caldari
8. Navy Crucifier - Amarr

^^^ These ships will see far less usage, and by that I mean less than half of the others. The Firetail and Hookbill will be used even less now than they were before despite the buffs because of far better alternatives. The Slicer which is widely used now will probably be largely replaced by the Vigil as a strong but affordable kiter. The Navy Comet dominates all of them in scram range, the Fleet Vigil dominates all of them at kiting, and the Navy Maulus will be great both at kiting, and countering other kiters but it's drones can be killed which means it will have a hard time kiting very tanky brawlers.

Navy ships are woefully imbalanced, by far the worst in all categories and it's affecting the warzone which is what most of the people in this thread don't seem to understand. When one side is earning less than a third of the other side because of shady balancing decisions over time this will be reflected in the warzone, as it is now with Gallente able to stockpile ships in key systems and ship up at a moments notice while calmil are largely incapable of fielding anything bigger than t1 cruisers because they can't afford to lose them.
Croc Evil
Croc's Family Business
#275 - 2015-10-26 13:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Croc Evil
So as far as my PvP goes for small frigate solo, here are my 2 cents :) For me the most important part is to have as much of playstyles as possible in eve.

Maulus Navy Issue and Vigil Fleet Issue really brings something new IMO and I like their concept. They might look too strong at first glimpse but It can be tweaked properly over time.
Maulus Navy Issue can give you good platform to deal with all those pesky FW farmers as well as give pirates some platform to deal with stabilized industrialists lurking around :)
With Vigil Fleet Issue they brings interesting range control + DPS, messing with core eve brawl, scram kiting, point kitting frigate PvP stereotype. I think stereotypes in any game are bad.

On the other hand Crucifier Navy Issue and Griffin Navy Issue looks a bit odd to me. My first impression is they are:

BURN - ORBIT/KEEP - PRAY

Not much of player skill involved apart from proper 'target' selection. That I don't like much. For Griffin Navy Issue play style can be very similar to ECM Kestrel fits I use (lot of fun from opponent ranting P).
For these 2 ships I would reconsider their concept. For example Griffin Navy Issue could be centered around ECM bursts instead with role/misc bonuses to fitting and penalties to strength. That would be something really new Blink.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#276 - 2015-10-27 21:39:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello one and all! We are planning a big set of ship and module updates for this Winter, including 13 new ships, module tiericide and much more. This thread will introduce 4 of the new ships, a new line of Empire Navy Ewar Frigates.

These ships are designed to use their racial ewar bonuses (primary ewar for Amarr and Caldari, secondary for Gallente and Minmatar) in unusual ways, skewed towards solo and microgang combat. Overall we don't expect these ships to eclipse Electronic Attack Frigates for fleet support roles, but the combination of ewar with significant frigate damage puts them into their own category.

These ships will be available in all standard combat LP stores for their respective factions.

Crucifier Navy Issue
Amarr Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
20% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness
Misc Bonus:
-85% penalty to Weapon Disruptor optimal range and falloff
-50% reduction to Weapon Disruptor activation cost

Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 2 Turret
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 42 PWG, 180 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 375 / 600 / 525
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 250s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 340 / 3.35 / 1,064,000 / 5 / 4.94s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 20
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km / 640 / 5
Sensor strength: 14 Radar
Signature radius: 38


Griffin Navy Issue
Caldari Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
20% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage
20% bonus to ECM strength
Misc Bonus:
-85% penalty to ECM optimal range and falloff
-50% reduction to ECM Jammer activation cost

Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 40


Maulus Navy Issue
Gallente Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Drone tracking and hitpoints
10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)
Misc Bonus:
+1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)

Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 4 L, 2 Turret
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 35 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 450 / 525 / 600
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 330 / 165s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.35 / 1,063,000 / 5 / 4.94s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km / 620 / 5
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 42


Vigil Fleet Issue
Minmatar Frigate bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile explosion velocity
25% bonus to explosive missile damage, 20% bonus to em, thermal and kinetic missile damage
Misc Bonus:
+50% Stasis Webifier range

Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 3 L, 1 Turret, 2 Launchers
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 38 PWG, 190 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 525 / 525 / 425
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 300 / 150s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 400 / 3.2 / 1,080,000 / 5 / 4.79s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 660 / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar
Signature radius: 34

Let us know what you think!

@ 85% reduction (all level 5):

CNG is looking at 5.41275 optimal with 6.0075 fallof

Crucifier is 9 / 4.5.

Due to small ranges (not optimal bonused hulls) beeing between 800m-8km, the crucifier has a chance to close before vaporization.

Griffin, not so much. I get setting brawling ranges, but the ECM falls short against any hull that isn't even bonus for range (kestrel eat this ship! nomnomnom). And even with its attributes, it's just short. A Maulus can shut any of these ships down.

Wtih the ranges, if they can't do anything to a sniper frig, they just are goignt o get blown up alot.

But I like the Maulus and the Vigil navy issues :)
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#277 - 2015-10-28 02:36:07 UTC
bruh. navy griffins will be the bane of everyone's existence.
Idame Isqua
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2015-10-29 05:50:35 UTC
Don't forget comets also have the best DPS long range
150mm rails and 3 drones

In fact I have died a lot to the new win button of AB fit 150mm rail comets
The other ships arnt fast enough to 'get under its guns' without being totally gimped
And you cant get under drones
Not forgetting you have enough room to always have the best drone for the situation (speed or dps, and which resistance hole)

As long as I have played eve the comet has clearly been the best frigate
And none can argue with this
Just look at the killboard, market etc. etc.

you can fit it with a armor or shield passive or active tank
with blasters or rails
ab or mwd
and its pretty easy to win in
and you can take on anything in any situation confidently
In fact most people flying it are happy to fit a deadspace prop knowing this will make them faster than anything regardless

compared with...

well I guess new navy maulus might beat it

Hookbill cant fit light missiles

Firetail could be arty fit I guess (but would die in a brawl and/or be laughed at)

I guess maybe the slicer has decent DPS at range compared with the firetail and hookbill, but are paper thin and clearly don't work that well otherwise people would be flying them all the time, instead of avoiding comets in novices like they avoid t3ds in smalls...
Adrian Maifeld
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2015-10-29 10:59:41 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
"I think I will take twelve Maulus Navy Issues, please."

Death to all Relic Ninja's!

Some exciting and interesting looking fits. Looks to be a good way to shake up the FW meta. Not that I am into that, but new ships which are accessible to younger players and offer an interesting approach seem like a good thing.


hehe
Come and get me! Blink
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#280 - 2015-10-29 20:13:09 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
bruh. navy griffins will be the bane of everyone's existence.

Not tanky enough.

And they have to get close.

Frig small gang vs frig small gang, I'd kill the griffin, Crucifier, Vigil, than Maulus.

Navy Griffin "looks" a bane if you don't see it coming and you let it close. Either-wise, its a brawler with no tank and an EM hole that needs plugging or alpha death.