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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4721 - 2015-10-24 11:36:49 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So if the Vets, and moderatly skilled use there skillpoints to create alts or to boost exisitng, your example is then flipped, Newbro's have no experience, no skills and the vets have more skills on more characters, experience and the newbro's are sitting wondering WTF is happening.


that's no different to the situation we're in now. most vets already have a myriad of characters with a range of skills.


Dave, that proposal i put forward of CCP doing it instead of it being player governed still retains its diminishing returns. It then benefits those who need it more than older characters. Its not something i want at all, but if something has to be implimented then shouldnt it be for the specific groups and not all who could exploit it.


can you please stop pretending that big alliances don't already have every type of pilot they need. it's honestly getting boring listening to you and the other people bleating "exploited by veterans".

people like goonswarm, the older veterans in PL, the long time players in what used to be the n3 coalition (wherever they ended up) all have all the pilots they need with all the skills they need.

the game has been out 12 years. between 12 years of skill training and however long the char bazaar has been operating more SP for these people is basically a total irrelevance. they already have a character with perfect skills for every activity they need.

the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


I said all who could exploit it, i dont need lists of corps nor alliances or quotes.Why does it need to be player orientated over CCP, If it was for customization purposes only then they would just give us the ability to remap our skills once a year same with looks / race.

Not in this year. You was a very bad boy.... VERY.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4722 - 2015-10-24 11:46:03 UTC
Dror wrote:
You overestimate the ability of SP to keep subs interested. The trend is that they're trying to increase sub retention, through the starter SP increase.. and now the idea of purchasing SP on the market.


Dror, You manipulated facts to fit your theories, You stated 1 game then 10,so lied to make your science fit unsubstaniated facts. Your words are just that and mean very little. Dave on the other hand is driven for some purpose and i'm just trying to understand whats different between player over CCP.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4723 - 2015-10-24 12:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
You overestimate the ability of SP to keep subs interested. The trend is that they're trying to increase sub retention, through the starter SP increase.. and now the idea of purchasing SP on the market.


Dror, You manipulated facts to fit your theories, You stated 1 game then 10,so lied to make your science fit unsubstaniated facts. Your words are just that and mean very little. Dave on the other hand is driven for some purpose and i'm just trying to understand whats different between player over CCP.

How can you judge a theory without understanding it? If you understood it, couldn't you refute it?

Motivation is simple. Again, if you're implying that SP is some feature that attracts whole crews of fresh subs, you have a lot to evidence.

As for what was stated about the research? Did you actually read the report that was linked? It very clearly stated that the study was about a single game. Then, you fabricated the game that it was about. So, you obviously didn't read the research? Then you're just posting tripe.

At what point does the "CCP selling SP" idea max out per character?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Dave Stark
#4724 - 2015-10-24 12:17:25 UTC
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...
Vahligmarr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#4725 - 2015-10-24 12:27:32 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...


If this "enjoyment" is linked to "if you want to have an advancement over others with patience, just pay extra, and you can have it instantly" then YES
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4726 - 2015-10-24 12:28:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...

It seems what that post is saying is that fresh subs meeting an almost-instant paywall in a sub game is probably a pretty low quality experience.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Dave Stark
#4727 - 2015-10-24 12:33:28 UTC
Dror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...

It seems what that post is saying is that fresh subs meeting an almost-instant paywall in a sub game is probably a pretty low quality experience.


good job nothing is, or will be, behind a paywall.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4728 - 2015-10-24 12:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...


If this "enjoyment" is linked to "if you want to have an advancement over others with patience, just pay extra, and you can have it instantly" then YES

experience>skill points

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4729 - 2015-10-24 12:37:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Dror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...

It seems what that post is saying is that fresh subs meeting an almost-instant paywall in a sub game is probably a pretty low quality experience.


good job nothing is, or will be, behind a paywall.


But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4730 - 2015-10-24 12:39:05 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Dror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


the character bazaar is one of the best things eve has for new players - i'll paraphrase the mittani "a new player can level up to the level of their intelligence as soon as they start the game" ~ that is from the meta show at the end of September when he had sort dragon on as a guest and they were discussing the new SP boost for new characters.
why are we hiding such a feature away from the people who benefit from it most?


If you really think, one of the best things for Beginners in EvE, is the ability to buy a high level character on the bazaar, then something with the game is completely wrong.


if i think new players being able to get in to aspects of the game that they enjoy instantly is good for the game then the game is wrong?

right... ok...

It seems what that post is saying is that fresh subs meeting an almost-instant paywall in a sub game is probably a pretty low quality experience.


good job nothing is, or will be, behind a paywall.

What about literally everything that can't be trained in a starter sub? SP is a paywall.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4731 - 2015-10-24 12:45:17 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Players or CCP.

No CCP -> No EVE -> No Players

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dave Stark
#4732 - 2015-10-24 13:12:04 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.


no, you don't have to pay any real life cash to obtain a character from the bazaar.
Jadon Wallace
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4733 - 2015-10-24 13:12:54 UTC
I got a suggestion for possible alternatives to this, why don't CCP make it so characters start out with no SP and then when someone goes to create there character they get the option of picking a specific skillset/career path that interests them (after being prompted to watch videos on each type of said 'career' path) where x amount of skillpoints is placed in the desired area? Eases entry for new players and it would seem to be a better method than what is being proposed here.
Dave Stark
#4734 - 2015-10-24 13:14:07 UTC
Dror wrote:
What about literally everything that can't be trained in a starter sub? SP is a paywall.


i'm not going to explain what a trial is.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4735 - 2015-10-24 13:18:56 UTC
Jadon Wallace wrote:
I got a suggestion for possible alternatives to this, why don't CCP make it so characters start out with no SP and then when someone goes to create there character they get the option of picking a specific skillset/career path that interests them (after being prompted to watch videos on each type of said 'career' path) where x amount of skillpoints is placed in the desired area? Eases entry for new players and it would seem to be a better method than what is being proposed here.

Skills without effort not what I want.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Eli Depran
Doomheim
#4736 - 2015-10-24 13:19:03 UTC
I still think CCP is grabbing for way too much real cash, it's getting obnoxious. There are so many other things that need to be worked on. Why not make a compromise and allow a remap of skills, with some strict limitations, and add something to the game that is usable by anyone. A big mistake the majority of new players make and what I made many times is spreading skill points all over the place. If you want to keep people interested, I assure you that people like to try various things at first, then later decide on what they really want to do, and then regret completely unfocused skills all over the place. They very well get disheartened, and then either quit, or make a new character and try to focus skills better, or buy a character. Most often I believe that people get disheartened and unsubscribe.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4737 - 2015-10-24 13:20:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.


no, you don't have to pay any real life cash to obtain a character from the bazaar.


So an newbro Just finds the isk to pay for a 80 mill sp character then, Point me in the direction of this isk cashpoint its a feature ive not come across, seeing as your advocating that 80 is about right to access everything in game.

Still does not explain players over CCP.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4738 - 2015-10-24 13:26:56 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.


no, you don't have to pay any real life cash to obtain a character from the bazaar.

There's money paid, both for that SP and the transfer.

Also, time is money.

Dror wrote:
Protip: the demographic that enjoys paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars just to enjoy an MMO is a tiny minority.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Dave Stark
#4739 - 2015-10-24 13:29:21 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.


no, you don't have to pay any real life cash to obtain a character from the bazaar.


So an newbro Just finds the isk to pay for a 80 mill sp character then, Point me in the direction of this isk cashpoint its a feature ive not come across, seeing as your advocating that 80 is about right to access everything in game.

Still does not explain players over CCP.


yes, that is the alternative. a thing many players do.
Dave Stark
#4740 - 2015-10-24 13:30:06 UTC
Dror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
But bazaar toons are behind a paywall are they not, so to come back to Players or CCP.


no, you don't have to pay any real life cash to obtain a character from the bazaar.

There's money paid, both for that SP and the transfer.

Also, time is money.

Dror wrote:
Protip: the demographic that enjoys paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars just to enjoy an MMO is a tiny minority.


where, in the process of buying a character or buying sp under the new system, do i need to pay any real life money?