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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Vahligmarr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#4541 - 2015-10-23 12:48:28 UTC
Players pay for Subscription, CCP gets the money,

Due to Subscription Players generate Skill Points.

To sell SP, its likely, players will buy more Gametime (double training for SP Alts)

To buy SP, players will buy AUR, CCP gets more money.

Where is the big difference? Where is the content? Where is more fun?

Outcome will be, Vets getting even richer, newbs still unexperienced get faster into bigger ships, still wanting the next step, borders are shifted, A big bluff, that's all...
Oovarvu
C.O.L.D.
#4542 - 2015-10-23 12:49:19 UTC
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.
Dave stark
#4543 - 2015-10-23 12:53:11 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4544 - 2015-10-23 13:00:30 UTC
Vahligmarr wrote:
Players pay for Subscription, CCP gets the money,

Due to Subscription Players generate Skill Points.

To sell SP, its likely, players will buy more Gametime (double training for SP Alts)

To buy SP, players will buy AUR, CCP gets more money.

Where is the big difference? Where is the content? Where is more fun?

Outcome will be, Vets getting even richer, newbs still unexperienced get faster into bigger ships, still wanting the next step, borders are shifted, A big bluff, that's all...


Well, and The Mittani will be the first character ever to train buy every skill to V for a weekend's worth of alliance income.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4545 - 2015-10-23 13:01:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.



Well according to some in this thread it's 400m LolLolLol
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4546 - 2015-10-23 13:04:02 UTC
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4547 - 2015-10-23 13:04:37 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.



Well according to some in this thread it's 400m LolLolLol

It's not enough for me. GIVE ME MOOOAR!

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dave stark
#4548 - 2015-10-23 13:09:26 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.



Well according to some in this thread it's 400m LolLolLol


well i'm sitting at somewhere in the 80s, i have perfect mining skills, perfect supports except the falloff skill (that's only at IV, all t2 weapons, all t2 subcaps except 2 of the 4 battleships...

i think the only nav skills i'm missing are the jump drive stuff and the mjd skills.

shuffle my mining SP to those skills and there's no way you can't have a character capable of jumping in to the new FOTM instantly for under 80m SP.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4549 - 2015-10-23 13:13:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.



Well according to some in this thread it's 400m LolLolLol


well i'm sitting at somewhere in the 80s, i have perfect mining skills, perfect supports except the falloff skill (that's only at IV, all t2 weapons, all t2 subcaps except 2 of the 4 battleships...

i think the only nav skills i'm missing are the jump drive stuff and the mjd skills.

shuffle my mining SP to those skills and there's no way you can't have a character capable of jumping in to the new FOTM instantly for under 80m SP.



But Dave, those mining skills tip the balance when I fight you in a frigate RollRollRoll
Oovarvu
C.O.L.D.
#4550 - 2015-10-23 13:14:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....


my point was the cost for the new players.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4551 - 2015-10-23 13:15:19 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Dror wrote:

At what point is it OK to stop giving free SP? 10M that can be completely re-oriented however? Then, their only experience with further queueing is completely uninteresting trains?


When to stop giving out SP would be down to CCP to decide. Ideally it would be based on stats only ccp have that show how long the average player takes to get "hooked".

Additional i think all players should get free SP on their characters birthday. New players should get it after playing the game for a month past their trial account. This would:

1. Help new players become "useful" to their chosen corp, faster
2. Reward long term/loyal players
3. Help returning players experience new content quicker.

Dror wrote:
If you're implying they would get bored with a no-SP game, how can you support SP at all?


That didn't make any sense. It's like saying "If you think apples are nutritious, how can you support the eating of apples?"... I already explained why I feel EVEs training system adds value.

Because you obviously can't be saying that SP actually keeps fresh subs interested. That's like saying that the door makes me enjoy being in my house. Like, nah, it's warm and great.

So, if you're implying a no-SP game is boring, you're just implying the game is boring. SP is no feature worth advertising, nor is it ever advertised -- just like WoW doesn't advertise its leveling process. It develops an uninteresting playing field and removes the majority of options (and thus a huge demographic of characters) from actually improving the game.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Shiva 113
Yggdrasill Corporation
#4552 - 2015-10-23 13:17:09 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Jadon Wallace wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but this seems a lot like a pay-to-win feature? Oh I am ISK rich let's keep buying these skillpackets to up my SP with no time investment, break out the credit card anyone? I am very concerned if this was to become a reality, CCP going free to play next with micro transactions? Kind of takes away the value of SP this and I don't see it helping the new player experience as most newbies don't have that much ISK anyway, surely there are better ways to improve the NPE than this?

"pay to win" like you call it it's already here: you can buy isk or you can buys some 20/40/50 mil sp character. all of it with a credit card via plex; what this system is going to change is lower the entry point from about > 10 plex to about 1 plex


The point is that this would make the game unbearably more pay2win.

But you fail to see the whole picture. Now you know that if you see a better char with better equipment, he is at a bare minimum a rich bastard who nevertheless spent some effort and proved tenacity to get where he is. With the proposed change, the bottom line would just be a rich bastard.

This change is in fact not in favor of new players. It would make the beginning much harder for an average new player who can’t afford to pay2win because he would be even more singled out than now.

Also – and I can’t stress this enough – why play a game where everything you can achieve through being good at it could be bought by any rich loser for money – what would even be the point of beginning if that was the case?
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4553 - 2015-10-23 13:17:15 UTC
Oovarvu wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....


my point was the cost for the new players.

He just want to talk. Let him speak Blink

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4554 - 2015-10-23 13:17:49 UTC
Oovarvu wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....


my point was the cost for the new players.



I realise this, my point was that old hands can do hilarious things with it, newbeans either cannot afford it or will be pushed to PvE and statistically therefore, most likely to quit.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4555 - 2015-10-23 13:19:49 UTC
Dror

After doing some reading lastnight i will hold my hands up and apologise, In case of law you can quite credibly argue that the skillpoints are rewards. Look at them as a perk for your loyalty for a month.

Now we can look at this in a whole new light so as in most games these days, You dont own anything in reality lets call it a rental period, Just the same as going to Eurocar, You pay you drive it round for a month you return it - at the end youve paid but you dont have anything to show for its expense. Seeing as CCP own all the intellectual property rights to everything in game - including the character bazaar, what they are actually doing is allowing you to move there skillpoints from one account to another for a fixed fee.

So now we have established that CCP already sell skillpoints, albeit in a cumbersome form and for the most part not newbro friendly because of there Isk cost / skillpoint ratio gained.

So now we have also established that CCP are not magically whipping skillpoints out of thin air, why not make it newbro friendly and just sell direct to the customer for a set figure, mitigating all possible scams / exploitation from with in the game generating income and with a good marketing plan increase the sub base.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Oovarvu
C.O.L.D.
#4556 - 2015-10-23 13:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Oovarvu
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....


my point was the cost for the new players.






I realise this, my point was that old hands can do hilarious things with it, newbeans either cannot afford it or will be pushed to PvE and statistically therefore, most likely to quit.




ahhh, i see. i agree
Dave stark
#4557 - 2015-10-23 13:22:13 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many skill points are considered 'enough' to be able to play the game properly?


it can't be more than 80m.



Well according to some in this thread it's 400m LolLolLol


well i'm sitting at somewhere in the 80s, i have perfect mining skills, perfect supports except the falloff skill (that's only at IV, all t2 weapons, all t2 subcaps except 2 of the 4 battleships...

i think the only nav skills i'm missing are the jump drive stuff and the mjd skills.

shuffle my mining SP to those skills and there's no way you can't have a character capable of jumping in to the new FOTM instantly for under 80m SP.



But Dave, those mining skills tip the balance when I fight you in a frigate RollRollRoll


in my day, bantams had a mining bonus and we liked it that way!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4558 - 2015-10-23 13:27:26 UTC
I remember those days :)
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4559 - 2015-10-23 13:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Oovarvu wrote:
just for the hell of it i thought i'd crunch the numbers.

taking a day old toon to 30m sp uses approx 75 skill packets.

assuming a 4 skill packets per plex price you'll need 19 plex which equates to around 265 sterling, i'm not sure what the yanks pay for plex but if it's a straight dollar sterling exchange rate swap then using 1.53 to 1 (as at 1.45pm 23/10/15) it would be around $400

all i can say is if thats what it's going to cost to buy in as a noob i feel extremely sorry for them.

notice the above calculations take NO ACCOUNT of the price of the extractors which will only bump things further.




So let's call it a round 25 billion.

I know people with personal wealth measured in trillions. So they could, if they wanted, wake up and go...you know what, I need a links alt. *poof* done, ready made, to order. and they'd not even notice the dip in the wallet.

Now that's PERSONAL wealth. Imagine something like PL or the CFC....


my point was the cost for the new players.



I realise this, my point was that old hands can do hilarious things with it, newbeans either cannot afford it or will be pushed to PvE and statistically therefore, most likely to quit.

We need to ripoff PVE, blow ships of newbies(according fanfest) and they will stay with us FOREVER... exept mortals players of course.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Metal Hunter
The Explorers Club
#4560 - 2015-10-23 13:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Metal Hunter
What will be farther? Extraction of SP from the taken capsule will be the following step?
It is inflated bubble, the capsule under a grid and the special module installed by the ship takes at the caught victim of SP. Maximum quantities of SP 500 000 for an injection.